9/11 Pentagon video goes public

[Texsox]

As logical as that sounds, the press still would have been all over him. The Dems would be screaming for an investigation. They are always sniffing for blood with Bush.

 

This would have been an extraordinary event in our history. The only prudent thing would be for it to be investigated. The President would have ordered innocent US citizens killed. No way that should be allowed to pass with a shrug of the shoulders. No matter who the President is. The alternative is just trusting the President and we have never in our history allowed that to pass.

 

The nagging question would be, could the people on the plane have overpowered the terrorists and taken control of the plane, and how much time should have been allowed to see if that was going to happen? The plane was heading to heavily populated areas, the window was closing quickly.

 

I really don't think they shot the plane down and no one saw it. So this is just a theoretical question.

[Steff]

As logical as that sounds, the press still would have been all over him. The Dems would be screaming for an investigation. They are always sniffing for blood with Bush.

 

 

 

Of course there would have been an investigation, and Bush would have been picked apart. A release of the facts would have proved that there was no other choice. Hard to argue with the fact that the passsengers on the plane had the mindset of taking the plane down. Hell.. they are considered hero's because they (supposedly :rolly ) did just that. Dem's would have been ripped worse for trying to vilify the same exact thing those in the situation were leading.

[YASNY]

This would have been an extraordinary event in our history. The only prudent thing would be for it to be investigated. The President would have ordered innocent US citizens killed. No way that should be allowed to pass with a shrug of the shoulders. No matter who the President is. The alternative is just trusting the President and we have never in our history allowed that to pass.

 

The nagging question would be, could the people on the plane have overpowered the terrorists and taken control of the plane, and how much time should have been allowed to see if that was going to happen? The plane was heading to heavily populated areas, the window was closing quickly.

 

I really don't think they shot the plane down and no one saw it. So this is just a theoretical question.

 

Oh, I agree there would have had to have been an investigation of it. But there are calm, sensible investigations and there is treestump rhetoric. I'm sorry, but Bush would not have been given one iota of the benefit of the doubt. Which is why I say the passenger communications would have been such an out, and easily have supplied Bush with a reason to never acknowledge the order had been given.

[Texsox]

Oh, I agree there would have had to have been an investigation of it. But there are calm, sensible investigations and there is treestump rhetoric. I'm sorry, but Bush would not have been given one iota of the benefit of the doubt. Which is why I say the passenger communications would have been such an out, and easily have supplied Bush with a reason to never acknowledge the order had been given.

 

Actually, remember the bull horn and 90% approval ratings? I believe, at that time, he would have been given the benefit of a lot of doubt. Today? Toast him. Not fair, but reality.

 

I agree a calm, sensible investigation is always a better approach, but politicians won't allow for that.

[YASNY]

Of course there would have been an investigation, and Bush would have been picked apart. A release of the facts would have proved that there was no other choice. Hard to argue with the fact that the passsengers on the plane had the mindset of taking the plane down. Hell.. they are considered hero's because they (supposedly :rolly ) did just that. Dem's would have been ripped worse for trying to vilify the same exact thing those in the situation were leading.

 

The Dems certainly would have had to been careful. I totally agree with you there.

 

Actually, remember the bull horn and 90% approval ratings? I believe, at that time, he would have been given the benefit of a lot of doubt. Today? Toast him. Not fair, but reality.

 

I agree a calm, sensible investigation is always a better approach, but politicians won't allow for that.

 

Good points.

[NorthSideSox72]

2K+ (guessing on the #) people had already died, three major buildings had been hit, and there were more than a dozen calls confirming the plane was hijacked... there would have been no negative ramifications had that plane needed to be shot down, IMO. Obviously - from the actions of those on the place - they knew that was the only choice.

I have to agree. I really don't think there would have been some huge effort to tear down Bush on this one. It would have been one of those rare situations where politics would likely have abstained.

[Steff]

I have to agree. I really don't think there would have been some huge effort to tear down Bush on this one. It would have been one of those rare situations where politics would likely have abstained.

 

 

 

Todd Beamer...

 

"Honey.. we HAVE to take the plane down...... let's roll"

 

 

Case closed.

[Texsox]

The Dems certainly would have had to been careful. I totally agree with you there.

 

 

 

Good points.

 

I was just thinking, from a political capital and opportunity point of view, what President has pissed away, or had taken away, more political capital than Bush? Control of everything up to the Supreme Court and a post 9/11 approval rating that was through the roof. Amazing to think about. That may be the central theme when historians view his career.

 

I think he, perhaps much like Jimmy Carter, may have had too much heart for the job. I may question his mind and intelligence, but Bush has a good heart. I really believe it.

[NorthSideSox72]

I was just thinking, from a political capital and opportunity point of view, what President has pissed away, or had taken away, more political capital than Bush? Control of everything up to the Supreme Court and a post 9/11 approval rating that was through the roof. Amazing to think about. That may be the central theme when historians view his career.

 

I think he, perhaps much like Jimmy Carter, may have had too much heart for the job. I may question his mind and intelligence, but Bush has a good heart. I really believe it.

I would tend to agree. I think he does the things he thinks are right on their face, instead of trying to play games. I do admire that.

 

But he lacks management skills, as evidenced by his closed-circuit cabinet. And while I do think he is smarter than he sounds on TV, on a Presidential scale, he's not the brightest. And I think his priorities are a bit out of whack.

[Rex Kickass]

Oh, I agree there would have had to have been an investigation of it. But there are calm, sensible investigations and there is treestump rhetoric. I'm sorry, but Bush would not have been given one iota of the benefit of the doubt. Which is why I say the passenger communications would have been such an out, and easily have supplied Bush with a reason to never acknowledge the order had been given.

 

You'd think but it took a lot of dragging and screaming by people outside the government for an investigation into the whole September 11th scenario to begin with. The truth is investigations stopped happening because we've had a government who hasn't cared about even an illusion of accountability for sometime now.

[GoRowand33]

Todd Beamer...

 

"Honey.. we HAVE to take the plane down...... let's roll"

Case closed.

 

I think I read that what he really said was "roll it" meaning roll the drink cart down the aisle

 

 

I am NOT a conspiracist, but I would think that the damage to the pentagon would have been a little bigger from a commercial airliner, the hole in the building wasn't even as wide as the plane

[NorthSideSox72]

I think I read that what he really said was "roll it" meaning roll the drink cart down the aisle

I am NOT a conspiracist, but I would think that the damage to the pentagon would have been a little bigger from a commercial airliner, the hole in the building wasn't even as wide as the plane

Actually, it was a heck of a lot wider than the plane. From what I know, the plane came in with its wings almost vertical, so the width of the hole would only be a bit larger than the fuselage and empanage (spelling butchered on both I'm sure), which it was.

[GoRowand33]

Actually, it was a heck of a lot wider than the plane. From what I know, the plane came in with its wings almost vertical, so the width of the hole would only be a bit larger than the fuselage and empanage (spelling butchered on both I'm sure), which it was.

 

 

If it came in vertically than I'm mistaken

 

sorry then, it still seems odd how it could come in vertically, but I didn't get a good look through that video

[G&T]

Actually, it was a heck of a lot wider than the plane. From what I know, the plane came in with its wings almost vertical, so the width of the hole would only be a bit larger than the fuselage and empanage (spelling butchered on both I'm sure), which it was.

 

I don't know if that's true. The History Channel or National Geographic have a special on the Pentagon attack and what they show is a building that is constructed to limit damage from an attack like this. The wings were torn off when they hit the building, making the fuselage a missile, basically. The building then had many strong supporting poles to slow the progress of a missile or plane and limit the damage. That's what I recall of it, so I hope I'm kind of right.

None of this makes you wrong, but it does help explain the amount of damage and the size of the impact.

[GoRowand33]

I don't know if that's true. The History Channel or National Geographic have a special on the Pentagon attack and what they show is a building that is constructed to limit damage from an attack like this. The wings were torn off when they hit the building, making the fuselage a missile, basically. The building then had many strong supporting poles to slow the progress of a missile or plane and limit the damage. That's what I recall of it, so I hope I'm kind of right.

None of this makes you wrong, but it does help explain the amount of damage and the size of the impact.

 

that sounds more reasonable

 

only question is what happened to the wings

[G&T]

that sounds more reasonable

 

only question is what happened to the wings

 

I think they disintegrated, basically. Crashes like that tend to make short work of such things.

[Rex Kickass]

They estimate the speed at the point of impact was 540 miles per hour, less than one video frame.

[YASNY]

Since this new video came out, with the plane supposedly visable before it hit the Pentagon, I snooped around the net looking at photos just to see what I could see. First, here's the recently released still that "shows" the plane:

 

 

 

You'll note that what has been identified as the plane is at or near ground level. It also has to be noted that a plane coming from the sky to a non-skyscraper building would by definition have to be in decent.

 

Now, a picture taken shortly after impact. Note that firefighters are on the scene and the roofline is still intact. Also note, to the right of the firetruck, below the water stream, there is something white in the shadows on the grass. I'm pointing this out for the sake of perspective in later photos.

 

 

Next, a close up shot of the water stream pouring into the building. Note that the this definitively shows the upper floor(s) still spanning the entry hole.

 

 

Another shot, showing the roofline still in tact. The previously mention white thing on the ground partially blocked by the observer in the suit.

 

 

Now, a shot after the collapse of the roofline. You can see that there is still fire and plenty of smoke, so this shot was taken somewhat later than the others. The purpose of pointing this all out is to prove that the previous shots occured very shortly, in the first few minutes, after impact.

 

Finally, this:

 

 

Look at the image on the right. More of a panarama of the Pentagon grounds. Notice anything? Maybe I should ask "Notice anything missing?" The large amount of black smoke and the intact roofline in the right hand picture tells you it was right after impact. Now look at the top photo of this post again, showing the "plane" at or near ground level. If that plane hit the ground, as they claimed, with the wings almost in a 12-6 position, again as claimed, you'd be seeing two noticable items. Wreckage of the wing in the 6 o'clock position would be there as well as damage to lawn of the grounds. Even elimating the 12-6 position of the wings, if the plane hit the building in a "normal" flying position, you'd still have lawn damage. He'll you'd have a big gash in the lawn. There is no way that "thing" in that top picture is a 767 jumbo jet.