JoeBatterz Posted May 17, 2006 Share Posted May 17, 2006 Decent high level review of the Black Sox Scandal. Black Sox Revisited The biggest exhibit of 1919 baseball artifacts ever to go on display will be unveiled today at the Reds Hall of Fame and Museum. Along with 50 relics - including the final-out ball of the infamous 1919 World Series thrown by the Chicago "Black Sox" to the Reds - there are various items from the collection of the late Reds star center fielder Edd Roush. Roush was the best player in the National League in the late teens and early 1920s; by 1919 he was already a two-time batting champion (1917, 1919) and the best outfielder in the game. Besides the display of artifacts at the Hall, there is a 16-minute video, most of it on the 1919 World Series, that includes five minutes of Roush audio on the fix. Also in the video are two songs from 1919 sheet music that were tributes to the World Champions. The songs were recorded on piano by museum staffer Cam Miller. BLACK SOX SCANDAL WAS INEVITABLE The Black Sox Scandal - that is, the fixed World Series of 1919 that the Chicago White Sox threw to the Reds - had to happen. Just like the steroids scandal of the late 1990s and early 2000s was inevitable. In both cases, Major League Baseball ignored problems right under its nose because the game was prospering at the gate. By 1919, gamblers were eating at the core of Major League Baseball by bribing players to throw games. The most famous case - although it was essentially swept under the rug by MLB - involved former Reds first baseman Hal Chase, who would become a key player in the Black Sox Scandal a year later. Chase and Reds second baseman Lee Magee conspired to fix a Reds game in Boston in late 1918. Testimony at Magee's trial in 1920 - Magee sued the Chicago Cubs for his 1920 salary after the team cut him before the season - from former Reds manager Christy Mathewson and Boston gambler James Costello suggested that then-Reds owner Garry Herrmann knew several Reds players were betting on Reds games in 1917 and 1918, but did nothing about it. At the time, Herrmann was chairman of Baseball's governing body, the National Commission, which also included American League president Ban Johnson and National League president John A. Heydler. The gamblers and players of a crooked bent were emboldened by Baseball's failure to clean up its house, which in turn led to parties on both sides to conspire to fix the biggest sporting event of them all back then - the 1919 World Series. Here is a quick look at the principal players. BLACK SOX SCANDAL PARTICIPANTS, PLUS THE COMMISSIONER Arnold Rothstein - New York gambler was known at the horse track as "Mr. Bankroll," and supplied $80,000 to fix the Series. Sport Sullivan, Abe Attell, Sleepy Bill Burns and Hal Chase - Gamblers who served as go-betweens to the White Sox players were all indicted by a Cook County (Ill.) grand jury, as were eight White Sox players. Chick Gandil - White Sox first baseman was the ringleader for the dirty players. He initiated the idea of the fix with gambler Sullivan, and then brought in seven other players. It is unclear how much fix money the players got. Some reports say Gandil got as much as $30,000. Two players - third baseman Buck Weaver and Fred McMullin - got nothing. Four players got at least $5,000 apiece, including center fielder Happy Felsch and shortstop Swede Risberg. Eddie Cicotte - White Sox starting pitcher who opened the World Series in Cincinnati and was 29-7 during the regular season. Received $10,000 on Sept. 29, two days before the Series opened. Some accounts say the money was put under his pillow in his room at Cincinnati's Sinton hotel on the night before the Series. Eliot Asinof, author of what is still regarded as the scandal's definitive book, "Eight Men Out," says Cicotte got the money before the White Sox arrived in Cincinnati the morning of Sept. 30. Lefty Williams - White Sox starting pitcher "threw" Game 2, received $5,000 of fix money, and "threw" Game 5. After the White Sox cut the series deficit to 4-3, Williams met with a Chicago thug named "Harry F." In the first inning of Game 8, Williams gave up three runs on four straight hits and was pulled before even getting the second out. The Reds clinched the Series. Shoeless Joe Jackson - Future sure-fire Hall of Famer (lifetime .356 batting average) received $5,000 to throw games. In the World Series, he led his team in batting average, home runs and RBI, but was said not to have tried his best in the field. Kenesaw Mountain Landis - Federal judge who was born in Milville, 35 miles from Cincinnati. Landis was named baseball commissioner on Nov. 11, 1920. On Aug. 2, 1921, moments after a Cook County (Ill.) jury acquitted the eight White Sox players, Landis announced the eight would never again play organized baseball. Landis had no sway over the gamblers who arranged the fix. They all beat the rap. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pants Rowland Posted May 17, 2006 Share Posted May 17, 2006 Thanks for the article. It is nice to see someone properly note the gambling problem in baseball at the time. I was watching Costas' show the other day on HBO and he was interviewing former ballplayers about Bonds' pursuit of Ruth and Aaron. He mentioned the widespread nature of steroids use and compared the shadow cast by this era to other problems in baseball history. When mentioning the 1919 World Series, he called it an isolated instance that was addressed quickly. As a WS fan and fan of history, I was a bit annoyed that Costas had not done his homework on this subject. As noted in the article, gamblers wreaked havoc on baseball. The 1919 WS fix actually proved to be the start of saving baseball because it brought so much attention to the problem at hand. Those 8 players were banned for life not so much to teach them a lesson but moreso to scare the s*** out of the rest of the players. That is why baseball cleaned up its act so quickly. Further, the lack of a strong commissioner at the time let the owners run roughshot over the players and forced players to resort to throwing games to make ends meet. The owners appointed Landis because they thought he would be on their side. He was a bastard on many fronts, but that worked to the advantage of baseball when it came to gambling. It also worked to baseball's disadvantage when it came to racism. Anyway, I think more attention should be brought to the pre-commissioner era as a whole to show how history has repeated itself in the steroids era. The lack of a strong governing body to control both the owners and the players union allowed steroid use to get out of control and has tainted the record books forever. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Texsox Posted May 17, 2006 Share Posted May 17, 2006 I wasn't aware of the widespread gambling that was going on. I never really bothered to learn anything about that era. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YASNY Posted May 17, 2006 Share Posted May 17, 2006 QUOTE(Texsox @ May 17, 2006 -> 11:00 AM) I wasn't aware of the widespread gambling that was going on. I never really bothered to learn anything about that era. It's almost ironic, but there was talk that Cubs threw the 1918 WS to the Red Sox. Unless my memory of this stuff is all skewed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigSqwert Posted May 17, 2006 Share Posted May 17, 2006 QUOTE(YASNY @ May 17, 2006 -> 11:03 AM) It's almost ironic, but there was talk that Cubs threw the 1918 WS to the Red Sox. Unless my memory of this stuff is all skewed. You were alive back then? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pants Rowland Posted May 17, 2006 Share Posted May 17, 2006 QUOTE(YASNY @ May 17, 2006 -> 11:03 AM) It's almost ironic, but there was talk that Cubs threw the 1918 WS to the Red Sox. Unless my memory of this stuff is all skewed. I never heard that theory, but I have read that their franchise was unrivaled for throwing games in the regular season at the time (as opposed to this year's team that is just unrivaled for throwing games away). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tonyho7476 Posted May 17, 2006 Share Posted May 17, 2006 If I remember correct, from the Book Eight Men out, the next season, the Cubs were going to throw a game, and someone called the league, and the starting pitcher was pulled, and this helped spark the pursuit of Shoeless Joe and the other 7 men. The feeling was that an example needed to be made, to clean up baseball. Throwing games was supposedly a regular occurence. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WilliamTell Posted May 17, 2006 Share Posted May 17, 2006 Poor Shoeless Joe. I wonder how often games were being thrown back then anyways. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tonyho7476 Posted May 17, 2006 Share Posted May 17, 2006 QUOTE(WilliamTell @ May 17, 2006 -> 11:45 AM) Poor Shoeless Joe. I wonder how often games were being thrown back then anyways. I don't know about 'Poor Shoeless Joe'. He conspired with men about fixing baseball games. Whether he gave his all isn't really the point. The big problem was the Sox players were some of the best, and they were paid by Comiskey as if they were some of the worst. Supposedly the season before, Eddie Cicotte came within 1 win of a $10,000 bonus, but Comiskey had him benched at times, to make sure he didn't get the bonus. So the owners were part of the problem when it came to gambling. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WilliamTell Posted May 17, 2006 Share Posted May 17, 2006 QUOTE(tonyho7476 @ May 17, 2006 -> 11:49 AM) I don't know about 'Poor Shoeless Joe'. He conspired with men about fixing baseball games. Whether he gave his all isn't really the point. The big problem was the Sox players were some of the best, and they were paid by Comiskey as if they were some of the worst. Supposedly the season before, Eddie Cicotte came within 1 win of a $10,000 bonus, but Comiskey had him benched at times, to make sure he didn't get the bonus. So the owners were part of the problem when it came to gambling. I'm saying "Poor" because I'm almost positive even without evidence that there were many other players outside of the White Sox organization doing the exact same thing. Maybe it wasn't as high stakes as the World Series but I'm assuming there were others aswell. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tonyho7476 Posted May 17, 2006 Share Posted May 17, 2006 See the movie...its a good watch. I don't believe its completely accurate. I've heard that the whole 'Say It Ain't So Joe' was never really said by a little boy. QUOTE(WilliamTell @ May 17, 2006 -> 11:51 AM) I'm saying "Poor" because I'm almost positive even without evidence that there were many other players outside of the White Sox organization doing the exact same thing. Maybe it wasn't as high stakes as the World Series but I'm assuming there were others aswell. Yeah, it was a widespread problem, and basically 8 guys took the fall for all of baseball. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pants Rowland Posted May 17, 2006 Share Posted May 17, 2006 QUOTE(tonyho7476 @ May 17, 2006 -> 11:54 AM) I've heard that the whole 'Say It Ain't So Joe' was never really said by a little boy. I have read that on numerous occassions as well. It is almost too perfect a line to be true anyway. The guy to feel sorriest for is Buck Weaver. He never took any money nor was involved in the fix. His only crime was that he heard about it and did not rat on his teamates. Landis didn't care and banned him anyway. I heard he died a pauper walking the streets of Chicago still trying to clear his name. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tonyho7476 Posted May 17, 2006 Share Posted May 17, 2006 QUOTE(Beltin @ May 17, 2006 -> 11:58 AM) I have read that on numerous occassions as well. It is almost too perfect a line to be true anyway. The guy to feel sorriest for is Buck Weaver. He never took any money nor was involved in the fix. His only crime was that he heard about it and did not rat on his teamates. Landis didn't care and banned him anyway. I heard he died a pauper walking the streets of Chicago still trying to clear his name. I think I heard he wrote to the commissioner every year, trying to get his name cleared, because he never took a dime. And he of course was always denied. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Ginger Kid Posted May 17, 2006 Share Posted May 17, 2006 Babe Ruth modeled his swing after Jackson's, and Cobb says Joe was the best hitter he ever saw. Sad. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baines3 Posted May 17, 2006 Share Posted May 17, 2006 I wasn't aware of the gambling problem in baseball at the time either. Excellent thread. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SnB Posted May 17, 2006 Share Posted May 17, 2006 This era really seems interesting to me, maybe it's because I don't know a whole lot though. I really should pick up some books on it, anyone have any reccomendations? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tonyho7476 Posted May 17, 2006 Share Posted May 17, 2006 QUOTE(whitesox1976 @ May 17, 2006 -> 12:54 PM) I wasn't aware of the gambling problem in baseball at the time either. Excellent thread. One of my favorite scenes in the movie is when the action begins for Game 1. Arnold Rothstein, the supposed mastermind behind it all, is at a gambling parlor, as the game is being played. The gambling parlor gets the results via telegraph, and then relays it to the crowd. They have a whole scoreboard up, which tells the 'story' of the game. So when a guy gets on base, they move a little runner to first, and narrate the game. It was cool. I will say this, it would be a very stressful way to gamble. QUOTE(SnB @ May 17, 2006 -> 01:16 PM) This era really seems interesting to me, maybe it's because I don't know a whole lot though. I really should pick up some books on it, anyone have any reccomendations? Eight Men Out is the book to read. It is regarded as the best book on the subject. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whitesoxfan101 Posted May 17, 2006 Share Posted May 17, 2006 I did a research paper on both the Black Sox and the widespread gambling in baseball in spring of 2004 (my senior year of high school). Wish I still had it on my computer, because I'd post it. Has a ton of references and such, very good stuff. Anyways, the 1919 Black Sox WERE NOT the first team to throw games, or throw them in a world series, not even close. In fact, many believe (with some proof) that the 1906 and 1918 Cubs not only threw the World Series, but made it even more obvious than the 1919 White Sox did, but nobody was looking for it yet (here's to you Mountain Landis). So yes, when people say our Sox in 1919 were the first to throw a World Series, that is WAY WAY wrong. It's just sad that Shoeless Joe is banned for life for doing something that AT LEAST half a dozen other men in the hall of fame also did. And that's assuming Shoeless Joe actually threw the games and took the money, which we aren't for sure about.....I mean Shoeless Joe was a great player, but he was illiterate and not really the type that could defend himself as well as a player now would be able to. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Texsox Posted May 17, 2006 Share Posted May 17, 2006 The courts today would have Joe in a uniform before spring training. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pants Rowland Posted May 17, 2006 Share Posted May 17, 2006 QUOTE(Texsox @ May 17, 2006 -> 02:22 PM) The courts today would have Joe in a uniform before spring training. They'd have to dig him up and dust him off first. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YASNY Posted May 17, 2006 Share Posted May 17, 2006 QUOTE(whitesoxfan101 @ May 17, 2006 -> 02:18 PM) I did a research paper on both the Black Sox and the widespread gambling in baseball in spring of 2004 (my senior year of high school). Wish I still had it on my computer, because I'd post it. Has a ton of references and such, very good stuff. Anyways, the 1919 Black Sox WERE NOT the first team to throw games, or throw them in a world series, not even close. In fact, many believe (with some proof) that the 1906 and 1918 Cubs not only threw the World Series, but made it even more obvious than the 1919 White Sox did, but nobody was looking for it yet (here's to you Mountain Landis). So yes, when people say our Sox in 1919 were the first to throw a World Series, that is WAY WAY wrong. It's just sad that Shoeless Joe is banned for life for doing something that AT LEAST half a dozen other men in the hall of fame also did. And that's assuming Shoeless Joe actually threw the games and took the money, which we aren't for sure about.....I mean Shoeless Joe was a great player, but he was illiterate and not really the type that could defend himself as well as a player now would be able to. I wish you had your research paper too. I love to read it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WilliamTell Posted May 17, 2006 Share Posted May 17, 2006 QUOTE(whitesoxfan101 @ May 17, 2006 -> 02:18 PM) I did a research paper on both the Black Sox and the widespread gambling in baseball in spring of 2004 (my senior year of high school). Wish I still had it on my computer, because I'd post it. Has a ton of references and such, very good stuff. Anyways, the 1919 Black Sox WERE NOT the first team to throw games, or throw them in a world series, not even close. In fact, many believe (with some proof) that the 1906 and 1918 Cubs not only threw the World Series, but made it even more obvious than the 1919 White Sox did, but nobody was looking for it yet (here's to you Mountain Landis). So yes, when people say our Sox in 1919 were the first to throw a World Series, that is WAY WAY wrong. It's just sad that Shoeless Joe is banned for life for doing something that AT LEAST half a dozen other men in the hall of fame also did. And that's assuming Shoeless Joe actually threw the games and took the money, which we aren't for sure about.....I mean Shoeless Joe was a great player, but he was illiterate and not really the type that could defend himself as well as a player now would be able to. That would've been awesome to read. Maybe this is the Cubs curse, not the Billy Goat or whatever else they can think of. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YASNY Posted May 17, 2006 Share Posted May 17, 2006 QUOTE(WilliamTell @ May 17, 2006 -> 05:26 PM) That would've been awesome to read. Maybe this is the Cubs curse, not the Billy Goat or whatever else they can think of. We can just add to the list. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soxbadger Posted May 17, 2006 Share Posted May 17, 2006 The Cubs were one of the original teams that baseball was investigating for throwing games. The reason why the Sox became the focus was mainly, Comiskey. Here is a website with some of the stunts the "Old Roman" pulled. http://www.law.umkc.edu/faculty/projects/f...omiskeybio.html Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GoRowand33 Posted May 18, 2006 Share Posted May 18, 2006 I think that shoeless joe should be cleared regardless of if he knew about it or not, I think that some teammates took advantage of his illiteracy and got into some stuff where he didn't know what he was doing Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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