Martha Stewart

[soxfaninbeverly]

sweet..i hope she goes down.

 

 

 

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=stor...rtha_stewart_76

[southsider2k5]

"and that's a good thing"

[soxfaninbeverly]

Go Feds, GO!, Go Feds, GO!, Go Feds, GO!

 

:finger F-U, Martha!

[cwsox]

I am in no way a Martha Stewart fan but I have no joy in seeing her get indicted by the feds.

 

From a legal perspective, look at the charges:

 

inside trading - who knows but the two people on the phone, her and the broker's assistant, so that charge may not stick and seldom do in these cases

 

obstruction of justice - that is the raw deal charge - the one who is setting her up is broker's assistant and he has a lot to gain by bringing her down because he probably is guilty of insider trading and by trashing MS gets a reduced sentence, or none. Meanwhile, in this case, all MS could be guilty of in obstruction of justice is in not cooperating with the investigators as they wish she would, i.e., confess. When the feds tack on an obstruction of justoce charge, that is usually the bogus one that they figure the jury will give them if they can't get the original charge.

 

I have never had use for the whole Martha SDtewart thing but I hope she beats their ass in court.

 

Meanwhile, like lemmings to the sea, goes the media (and the public) attention to Martha Stewart and away from anything real like Enron, World Com, etc., where public corruption and destruction of people's life savings took place.

 

People, Martha Stewart is the circus the feds are giving you to distract you from the corruption of the well-connected.

[soxfaninbeverly]

This woman worked on Wall Street years ago as a broker for Merrill Lynch. She knows the rules.

 

She knows the rules and in a deposition she stated they had a "verbal order." Anyone can tell you in the industry this is not standard. She and her broker would have known this. Any broker or assistant broker in the industry knows this.

 

The assistant broker turned states evidence, to get a lighter sentence. Martha Steward was approached in the same manner and turned it down, putting her completely on the defensive. When she wouldn't play ball, sure the deal was dropped for a lighter sentence and now are choosing to prosecute.

 

This woman was good friends with Sam Waskal. CEO of Imclone who was convicted of insider trading. She was dumping shares of Imclone the same time he and his daughter were dumping shares, on the same day, (the day before Erbiutx wasn't going to get FDA approval)before the news broke.

[cwsox]

I have verbal orders with my broker --

 

I will always think this is a circus to divert from real crime. No doubt she was operating on the edges here and may in fact be guilty but I'll be convinced of the Justice Department's integrity when ZI see Ken Lay on a string of indictments.

 

I have no use for anything Martha Stewart has done in her life, but this is exactly a celebrity driven story that detracts from anything really important.

[SI1020]

I am in no way a Martha Stewart fan but I have no joy in seeing her get indicted by the feds.

 

From a legal perspective, look at the charges:

 

inside trading - who knows but the two people on the phone, her and the broker's assistant, so that charge may not stick and seldom do in these cases

 

obstruction of justice - that is the raw deal charge - the one who is setting her up is broker's assistant and he has a lot to gain by bringing her down because he probably is guilty of insider trading and by trashing MS gets a reduced sentence, or none.  Meanwhile, in this case, all MS could be guilty of in obstruction of justice is in not cooperating with the investigators as they wish she would, i.e., confess.  When the feds tack on an obstruction of justoce charge, that is usually the bogus one that they figure the jury will give them if they can't get the original charge.

 

I have never had use for the whole Martha SDtewart thing but I hope she beats their ass in court.

 

Meanwhile, like lemmings to the sea, goes the media (and the public) attention to Martha Stewart and away from anything real like Enron, World Com, etc., where public corruption and destruction of people's life savings took place.

 

People, Martha Stewart is the circus the feds are giving you to distract you from the corruption of the well-connected.

This is a perfect example of why the traditional left/right slant on message boards frustrates and depresses me. I agree with your two posts here right on down the line. I would have given Global Crossing a mention but in the long run of things that's probably not here nor there. I'm not a fan of Martha either, but I don't like the "notch on the belt" mentality of too many prosecutors, particularly federal prosecutors. If she goes down, I shed not one tear for her, but many others deserve to go down too. I also hate the fact that some prosecutors rely almost exclusively on "roll over" testimony to get those precious notches on their belts.

[Soxfest]

I hope the smug ass b**** gets what is coming to her

[soxfaninbeverly]

I have verbal orders with my broker --

 

you are misunderstanding the rules of the industry.

 

Verbal orders must be written down. You can give an order verbally, but it must be written down, timestamped, and sent to what is known as a "wire room, then placed on the exchange where the stock is traded. This didn't happen. The NASDAQ has no written confirmation of the order. The Merrill Lynch principal (who has to sign off on an order before it is sent to the wire room) had no confirmation of an order. Merrill Lynch the firm had no written order on hand (which are kept for 7 years.)

Merrill came out and said (to limit their own liability in the case) and published records from their Compliance Department that "oral agreement" type of is not their policy let alone industry stanard. Orders given

 

must be written down

They claim it was an "oral agreement, this is not the industry standard, it is far from it.

 

Maybe I see it differently. I am a broker. These rules are pounded into your brain, and covered in the exams. They are not easily forgotten, by someone out of the industry, or let alone it.

 

No order ever existed. These people lied to the FBI, the SEC and the Department of Justice. The CEO of Imclone, Sam Waskal (who has been convicted along w/his daughter of insider trading) used the same broker at Lynch that Stewart used. All 3 were good friends. Why was Martha dumping her stock, along w/Sam Waskal at the same time, the DAY BEFORE ERBITUX WAS TO BE WAS TO BE MADE PUBLIC BY THE FDA AS NON-EFFECTIVE DRUG?

 

 

I agree w/ you about that Skilling prick and Ken Lay. All those corporate dicks should go down, who lined their pockets and duped investors. I am all for you there, cwsox. They should all go to jail, what these assholes did was wrong.

[cwsox]

Waskal is scum, no doubt.

 

I have problems with this assistant or whatever title he goes by being the one who is testifying against Stewart, since she never spoke to Waskal that day as I understand it. I have worked for on both sides of the prosecution/defense ledger and have problems with one person vs another person, the whole he said/she said thing, especially when one side is getting something out of it - after all, he called her - why? And in too many cases the obstruction of justice charge is a cheap stunt to get a conviction - but you know that.

 

I wish they would all go down, the corrupt lot of them.

[soxfaninbeverly]

hey, cwsox, I agree. I hope you didn't think that I was attacking you personally. I guess I see it from a different perspective.

 

All the corrupt people from this Imclone & Martha Stewart fiasco, the Global Crossing, Enron & Arthur Andersen should pay for what they did. It isn't right. They cheated people out of billions and billions of dollars and lined their pockets. They cheated investors, employees, and the American public.

 

It is just a matter of time till the Enron crew get charged criminally. I think the Stewart case is the slam dunk, that the Dept. of Justice wrapped it up easily before they go after the others.

[cwsox]

Personally attacked? Hell no.

 

Do I recall correctly that you are a lawyer as well as a broker? I read your posts as coming from that perspective. (I am a legal assistant - do legal assistants get to be members of the Illinois bar like we do in Michigan? I have just gotten around to joining a couple of sections, probate and real estate.)

 

I spent the better part of yesterday tracking down some corporation from state to state (I love the internet and secretary of state corporate filings being available online now) that we we will taking on in a civil matter for a nice piece of corruption in a land deal. I like doing my part to root out venialty in America.

[southsider2k5]

They are ALL crooks. They have made a mockery of the backbone of our capitalist system. With out stock trading there would be no easy liquid manner to assign a value to corporations. They need to have the book thrown at them.

[BrandoFan]

1. Even before Heaven of anonymity known as Internet came about, insider trading and assorted golden pen crimes were virtually everywhere, show me a CEO, a Mutual fund officer, an R&D project coordinator, etc who hasn't dabbled in some sort of scam or hasn't looked the other way upon encounter with IT at least once in his/her lifetime....cynical but very true. Feds can't possibly cover them all so they must choose and pick and make public example out of people. Martha just got a bad break, that's all, but as someone already mentioned, this is a shrewed and b****y woman who certainly knew what she was doing. Crying dem crocodile's tears was to be expected. As was the media circus- we are living in 21st century America afterall.

 

2. The myth that insider trading is a borderline vinctimless crime is just that- in the stock market for every dollar Martha Stewart made, somebody has to lose it. As is usually the case with overhyped, bubble "miracle cure" drugs, the whole FDA approval process and of course the stock exhange/market/Wall street itself...for every Martha privy to "special information", there are a 100 restaurant cooks/working stiffs out there with their kids' college funds on the line who are being deceived into believing the hype, into thinking that they can succeed without cheating... and end losing A LOT of money as a direct result more often than not. They don't have the "It's not what you know, it's who you know" maxim in the stock market for nothing, you know, the game is definately rigged...Martha and her ilk can rot in jail for all I care.

 

Feds are good guys here as hard as it is to believe, and if they need to pit one indictee against another and use somewhat ethically dubious means to achive results and get those bastards, then so be it...And who f***ing cares if they get "notches on their belts"--if there were no insentive, ambition, honor or prestige in becoming a prosecutor (or a military man), why would anyone want to do it in the first place? Reality being what it is, expect it to be celebriticized or even political, that's the price to be paid if you can call it that...

[Cerbaho-WG]

Hate to break it to everyone, but just about everyone does insider trading.

[soxfaninbeverly]

Do I recall correctly that you are a lawyer as well as a broker? I read your posts as coming from that perspective. (I am a legal assistant - do legal assistants get to be members of the Illinois bar like we do in Michigan? I have just gotten around to joining a couple of sections, probate and real estate.)

 

no cwsox, i'm just a broker. Think you may be refering to Bridgeport Joe. He's the lawyer who used to hang on the ESPN board.

 

2. The myth that insider trading is a borderline vinctimless crime is just that- in the stock market for every dollar Martha Stewart made, somebody has to lose it. As is usually the case with overhyped, bubble "miracle cure" drugs, the whole FDA approval process and of course stock exhange...for every Martha privy to special information, there are a 100 restaurant cooks/working stiffs out there with their kids' college funds on the line who are being deceived into believing the hype and lose A LOT of money as a direct result. They don't have the "It's not what you know, it's who you know" maxim in the stock market for nothing, you know, the game is definately rigged...Martha and her ilk can rot in jail for all I care.

 

well, said brandofan, i couldn't agree w/you more.

 

They are ALL crooks. They have made a mockery of the backbone of our capitalist system. With out stock trading there would be no easy liquid manner to assign a value to corporations. They need to have the book thrown at them.

 

i agree ss2k3, i hope this is just the start of what is to come in the future. The feds should go after the Enron crew next.

[southsider2k5]

Hey Bev, which floor do you work on? I was a clerk at the CBOE for 3 years, and now work for a futures company.

[soxfaninbeverly]

Hey Bev, which floor do you work on? I was a clerk at the CBOE for 3 years, and now work for a futures company

 

I used to work at the CBOT, in the grain room in summers in college.

 

 

 

Now, I live in San Diego. I went to college at Arizona State, and when I graduated, I moved out to CA.

 

This is all changing in the next three weeks. I am going to basic training in July. I enlisted in the Army.

[soxfaninbeverly]

I work for a firm here in Sandy, just equities. stock, option, bond, mutual fund.

 

I have the series 4, 7, 24 & 63 NASD licenses.

 

 

our firm doesn't work w/commodities, or currency, any other futures contracts.

[southsider2k5]

I used to work at the CBOT, in the grain room in summers in college.

 

 

 

Now, I live in San Diego. I went to college at Arizona State, and when I graduated, I moved out to CA.

 

This is all changing in the next three weeks. I am going to basic training in July. I enlisted in the Army.

wow from the grain pits to the army. Good luck man. We'll all be pullin for ya!

[soxfaninbeverly]

wow from the grain pits to the army. Good luck man. We'll all be pullin for ya!

 

 

 

Thank you SS2K3, I appreciate it very much. I am going to have to bow out of the PTC contest in the next few weeks. Thanks to you, PA and Ugly I got to play.

 

Thanks.

[cwsox]

Hate to break it to everyone, but just about everyone does insider trading.

that is very true, the truest thing in this thread

 

you know what, everyone is a f***ing scam artist, we all have our places where we skim

 

so Stewart worked very hard from being a poor Polish girl to a lifestyle most all of us would like but we don't work that f***ing hard and that dedicated

 

so some punk ass jive talking assistant broker wannabe calls her and says the sleezebag I work for is dumping his stock tonight honey

 

what do you do?

 

she takes care of herself and her family

 

the world is so innocent when you can still touch adolesence with your extended arm, all absolute and pure

 

she's no Kenneth Lay looking for power, no Skilling, she wasn't playing for those stakes

 

corrupt, who isn't - who hasn't got a price for what you'd do when it comes your way, if it does -

 

it's not about who is good and who isn't good, those categories don't exist in real life,

 

its about was she looking to scam to hurt anyone else or looking to take care of ehr own

 

she didn't play with other people's lives and livelihoods like Global and world.com and Enron, playing people just for the game of playing and seeing how many power strokes she could get -

 

she may be whatever she is but look at how viciously people fight in here about nothing - every the f***ing Sox are nothing, its just a game, a sport, that's all it is is a sport and people get so emotional like its real - its all just bulls***

 

its not about who is good and who isn't, it is about who was trying to hurt other people for power perch and who isn't trying to hurt anyone

 

if anyone of us gets a call tonight that says here is something to know - you can talk ethics all you want, I am the king of ethics -

 

Martha Stewart gets indicted which effects who exactly, E Entertainment and the people who shop at the KMart maybe -

 

Kenneth Lay and all his buddies are sleeping well tonight and the world has a few larger problems facing it than whether Martha Stewart did something to save her parents stock from crashing

 

I'll be more impressed when I see Kenneth Lay in jail and Dick Cheney convicted for the money that Halburton is making and the whole crew behind phoney wars in prison

 

I'll sleep a little better when the force of the government isnt's going after a woman who designs pillow cases for people who shop at KMart

 

 

but when the government goes after the Bush family and Osama bin Laden is being indicted as opposed to Martha Stewart, then I will be impressed -

 

the woman who demands a Merlot as portrayed by Cybil Shepherd is a little less frightening to me than those who play games with other peoples' lives

 

and knowing that each of us has that thing that we would do if it got thrown at us - judge not lest you be judged - its not about good or bad but about those who try and hurt other people and those who don't

 

when I see Bob Dole in jail for toasting Saddam Hussein (which granted happened 13 years ago so many here don't remember) in one more play in the power game rather than the woman who showed everyone how to make a lovely centerpiece from pine cones and used cloth napkins,

 

then I will be impressed.

 

SoxfaninBeverly, good luck in the service - my son the Marine says, say nothing and do what you're told and it is all good -

 

and that avatar is still a great Lane Tech ensignia and I was thinking of Bridgeport Joe

 

but when you get out of the service, think about the lawyer thing - a trained lawyer who knows what you already know, that is gold in the real world and other than helping rich folk do a GST and other s*** to pass on more wealth to avoid paying for granny's nursing home costs (which thereby passes the buck [get it passing the buck] to the taxpayers as opposed to their own rich damn selves),

 

you will get to do some good someday for some real people in need, which is not a bad thing to say at the ther end of life than where you are now

 

 

and yes, insider trading - everyone, we are all just closely held corporations trying to make a dollar and be a bit ahead of everyone else in whatever it is that we consider to be the scale of accomplishment -

 

be good to yourselves - and to each other

[BrandoFan]

the world is so innocent when you can still touch adolesence with your extended arm, all absolute and pure

 

So what, should I just start being a stupid greedy selfish asshole just because "many" adults are? Humans are always going to be fundamentally fallible, but moral and otherwise relativism and weary cynicism ain't the way to do either.

 

she's no Kenneth Lay looking for power, no Skilling, she wasn't playing for those stakes

 

 

Leave Kenneth Lay out of this, will ya? He has nothing to do with Martha's transgressions, however mild you think they may be. Had she made 10 mill instead of a much lesser sum, that would mean how many 100s of investors would have lost hard-earned money, or do middle classers not figure largely in your scale of priorities?

 

corrupt, who isn't - who hasn't got a price for what you'd do when it comes your way, if it does -

 

I am not and my family isn't, we ain't scammers. And I am damn proud of it too.

 

it's not about who is good and who isn't good, those categories don't exist in real life,

 

Mother Teresa would be happy to hear that on your scale of worth/goodness, she is the same as some drunk pub rat, a dork playing Nintendo all his life or a crook like Martha to say nothing of hardcore criminals and assorted human waste scum...when it's all said and done.

 

its about was she looking to scam to hurt anyone else or looking to take care of ehr own

 

Oh, please just because she didn't sponsor child genocide, doesn't mean she is clean. What a crock! I agree with T. Williams that deliberate cruelty is the only thing that is unforgivable, and I certainly hope Lays of this world will roast in the pits of hell for all eternity....but think of the ramifications if they do let it slide for Martha, another win for the white collar criminals, another win for celebrity...

 

-

she may be whatever she is but look at how viciously people fight in here about nothing - every the f***ing Sox are nothing, its just a game, a sport, that's all it is is a sport and people get so emotional like its real - its all just bulls***

 

Speak for yourself- it's very real, Sox are a big part of my life and people on the net as I mentioned before are real people first and foremost. I am not going to be sorry for being passionate and alive, nor for not treating my fellow Sox fans with apathy and insincerity....Besides, if you strip "real" life of all the small , seemingly unimportant stuff like art, entertainment, sports, dicking around, passionate arguements, etc, etc, etc....there will be hardly anything left worth living for.

 

 

I do agree with many of your other points though.

[Bmr31]

that is very true, the truest thing in this thread

 

you know what, everyone is a f***ing scam artist, we all have our places where we skim

 

so Stewart worked very hard from being a poor Polish girl to a lifestyle most all of us would like but we don't work that f***ing hard and that dedicated

 

so some punk ass jive talking assistant broker wannabe calls her and says the sleezebag I work for is dumping his stock tonight honey

 

what do you do?

 

she takes care of herself and her family

 

the world is so innocent when you can still touch adolesence with your extended arm, all absolute and pure

 

she's no Kenneth Lay looking for power, no Skilling, she wasn't playing for those stakes

 

corrupt, who isn't - who hasn't got a price for what you'd do when it comes your way, if it does -

 

it's not about who is good and who isn't good, those categories don't exist in real life,

 

its about was she looking to scam to hurt anyone else or looking to take care of ehr own

 

she didn't play with other people's lives and livelihoods like Global and world.com and Enron, playing people just for the game of playing and seeing how many power strokes she could get -

 

she may be whatever she is but look at how viciously people fight in here about nothing - every the f***ing Sox are nothing, its just a game, a sport, that's all it is is a sport and people get so emotional like its real - its all just bulls***

 

its not about who is good and who isn't, it is about who was trying to hurt other people for power perch and who isn't trying to hurt anyone

 

if anyone of us gets a call tonight that says here is something to know - you can talk ethics all you want, I am the king of ethics -

 

Martha Stewart gets indicted which effects who exactly, E Entertainment and the people who shop at the KMart maybe -

 

Kenneth Lay and all his buddies are sleeping well tonight and the world has a few larger problems facing it than whether Martha Stewart did something to save her parents stock from crashing

 

I'll be more impressed when I see Kenneth Lay in jail and Dick Cheney convicted for the money that Halburton is making and the whole crew behind phoney wars in prison

 

I'll sleep a little better when the force of the government isnt's going after a woman who designs pillow cases for people who shop at KMart

 

 

but when the government goes after the Bush family and Osama bin Laden is being indicted as opposed to Martha Stewart, then I will be impressed -

 

the woman who demands a Merlot as portrayed by Cybil Shepherd is a little less frightening to me than those who play games with other peoples'  lives

 

and knowing that each of us has that thing that we would do if it got thrown at us - judge not lest you be judged - its not about good or bad but about those who try and hurt other people and those who don't

 

when I see Bob Dole in jail for toasting Saddam Hussein (which granted happened 13 years ago so many here don't remember) in one more play in the power game rather than the woman who showed everyone how to make a lovely centerpiece from pine cones and used cloth napkins,

 

then I will be impressed.

 

SoxfaninBeverly, good luck in the service - my son the Marine says, say nothing and do what you're told and it is all good -

 

and that avatar is still a great Lane Tech ensignia and I was thinking of Bridgeport Joe

 

but when you get out of the service, think about the lawyer thing - a trained lawyer who knows what you already know, that is gold in the real world and other than helping rich folk do a GST and other s*** to pass on more wealth to avoid paying for granny's nursing home costs (which thereby passes the buck [get it passing the buck] to the taxpayers as opposed to their own rich damn selves),

 

you will get to do some good someday for some real people in need, which is not a bad thing to say at the ther end of life than where you are now

 

 

and yes, insider trading - everyone, we are all just closely held corporations trying to make a dollar and be a bit ahead of everyone else in whatever it is that we consider to be the scale of accomplishment -

 

be good to yourselves - and to each other   

Someone dropped this one on his head too many times.

[soxfaninbeverly]

SoxfaninBeverly, good luck in the service - my son the Marine says, say nothing and do what you're told and it is all good -

 

and that avatar is still a great Lane Tech ensignia and I was thinking of Bridgeport Joe

 

but when you get out of the service, think about the lawyer thing - a trained lawyer who knows what you already know, that is gold in the real world and other than helping rich folk do a GST and other s*** to pass on more wealth to avoid paying for granny's nursing home costs (which thereby passes the buck [get it passing the buck] to the taxpayers as opposed to their own rich damn selves),

 

you will get to do some good someday for some real people in need, which is not a bad thing to say at the ther end of life than where you are now

 

 

thank you very much, cwsox. i appreciate the encouragement that I have recieved from you and the rest of the board. I will think about the lawyer thing as well, and I will remember your son's advice.