maggsmaggs Posted May 19, 2006 Share Posted May 19, 2006 (edited) Looking at his numbers, they are much more impressive than I thought. Over 2600 hits, 5th on the career stolen base list, a nice long career and an All-Star MVP (1987). http://baseballreference.com/r/raineti01.shtml I think he has a viable shot, what about you guys? EDIT: I meant for this to be a poll, but I messed up. Could an Admin make it a poll with "yes" or "no," please? Thanks in advance. Edited May 19, 2006 by maggsmaggs Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Felix Posted May 19, 2006 Share Posted May 19, 2006 I'd like to say yes, but I reserve the hall for the best of the best. As of now, I see Raines as a really good player, but not one of the all-time greats. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Ginger Kid Posted May 19, 2006 Share Posted May 19, 2006 I wish he did have a chance. Had he not played all those years in lousy Montreal, he'd certainly have a much better shot. He was awesome in his prime. Power, speed and great defense. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gregory Pratt Posted May 19, 2006 Share Posted May 19, 2006 The Hall of Fame irks me because players that DO deserve it don't get in. It's got a reputation for ignoring Hall of Famers, and I'm hesitant to say that someone like, oh, Robin Ventura will make it because of its nature. I don't think Baines will make it. Should he? I think so, for recognition of his stolen bases alone. But I don't cast that vote, unfortunately. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheHammer Posted May 19, 2006 Share Posted May 19, 2006 I think Raines is right below the level of the level that is boarderline HOF. This means I think he is almost HOF caliber, but I do not think he should ever get in. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chitownsportsfan Posted May 19, 2006 Share Posted May 19, 2006 Uh, Robin Ventura is not a HOFer. Not even close. Raines is close, but he shouldn't be in. He was a good or above average player for a long time, however, when players such as Rock try and get in, I think a few questions are asked: Was he ever the best player in the league, even for a year? Was he the best player on a championship team? Unfortunetly, Rock answers "no" to both those questions. Rock was one of my favorite players growing up a Sox fan in the early 90's, and his career was a good one, but not HOF worthy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WilliamTell Posted May 19, 2006 Share Posted May 19, 2006 Both Baines and Raines are a notch below the hall of fame. If there was a Hall of Fame B, they'd make it. Raines was a great player, but not a great enough player. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZoomSlowik Posted May 20, 2006 Share Posted May 20, 2006 (edited) Phil Rizzuto is in the Hall of Fame, but Bert Blyleven and Goose Gossage aren't. That's about all you need to know. Being on a good team helps a lot, especially if it's the Yankees. Edited May 20, 2006 by ZoomSlowik Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
That funky motion Posted May 20, 2006 Share Posted May 20, 2006 QUOTE(ZoomSlowik @ May 19, 2006 -> 07:48 PM) Phil Rizzuto is in the Hall of Fame, but Bert Blyleven and Goose Gossage aren't. That's about all you need to know. Being on a good team helps a lot, especially if it's the Yankees. And thats a shame!!! :headshake Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoeBatterz Posted May 20, 2006 Share Posted May 20, 2006 No to Raines, only because of the Highest of Standards. Yes to him having a great career though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ptatc Posted May 20, 2006 Share Posted May 20, 2006 QUOTE(chitownsportsfan @ May 19, 2006 -> 06:27 PM) Uh, Robin Ventura is not a HOFer. Not even close. Raines is close, but he shouldn't be in. He was a good or above average player for a long time, however, when players such as Rock try and get in, I think a few questions are asked: Was he ever the best player in the league, even for a year? Was he the best player on a championship team? Unfortunetly, Rock answers "no" to both those questions. Rock was one of my favorite players growing up a Sox fan in the early 90's, and his career was a good one, but not HOF worthy. This is always a way I think about it also. However, there are some excetions. Nolan Ryan for example. Should he be in the Hall of Fame? He was never the best pitcher in any given year. No Cy Youngs. His average record for his career is barely over .500. While he holds the record for most strikeouts he also holds the record for most walks in a career. From these numbers I don't know but the BIG thing to put it over the edge is the no-hitters. So, he is obviously a Hall of Famer but was never the best pitcher in any given year. So sometimes that criteria needs to be altered. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZoomSlowik Posted May 20, 2006 Share Posted May 20, 2006 (edited) QUOTE(ptatc @ May 19, 2006 -> 11:12 PM) This is always a way I think about it also. However, there are some excetions. Nolan Ryan for example. Should he be in the Hall of Fame? He was never the best pitcher in any given year. No Cy Youngs. His average record for his career is barely over .500. While he holds the record for most strikeouts he also holds the record for most walks in a career. From these numbers I don't know but the BIG thing to put it over the edge is the no-hitters. So, he is obviously a Hall of Famer but was never the best pitcher in any given year. So sometimes that criteria needs to be altered. Well I would say at least a top 5 player at any given time, maybe top 3 at some times. Either that or the top player at your position. The best player in the game is a little harsh, especially if you played in an era with guys like Ruth and Gehrig, or Mays, Aaron, and Musial. Even for the 90's, unless your name was Thomas, Griffey, Bonds, McGwire, or Sosa in the field or Maddux, Clemens, or Pedro on the mound, you weren't even close to #1. (Yeah, I know you could argue differently by awards, but I don't consider that solid evidence). Using that logic, one guy that wouldn't even be close to the hall is Eddie Murray. Yes, his career numbers are fantastic. However, he has one batting title, no homerun or RBI crowns, and no MVP's. That batting title was also his only appearance in the top 5 in the league in batting average or homers his entire career. He had a long, solid career however, which is why he is in. He might not be one of my favorites, but it's hard to argue with the final totals. Edited May 20, 2006 by ZoomSlowik Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sox Machine Posted May 20, 2006 Share Posted May 20, 2006 Percentage-wise, he was a better basestealer than anybody in the top 10. Excellent on-base percentage, largely in an era that favored pitchers. Probably the best leadoff man not named Rickey Henderson. He deserves a good, hard look by the voters. The offensive explosion of the 1990s has really screwed with the stars of the '80s. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hammerhead johnson Posted May 20, 2006 Share Posted May 20, 2006 QUOTE(ptatc @ May 20, 2006 -> 04:12 AM) This is always a way I think about it also. However, there are some excetions. Nolan Ryan for example. Should he be in the Hall of Fame? He was never the best pitcher in any given year. No Cy Youngs. His average record for his career is barely over .500. While he holds the record for most strikeouts he also holds the record for most walks in a career. From these numbers I don't know but the BIG thing to put it over the edge is the no-hitters. I'd actually say that his 55 MLB records would put him over the edge. Some of my favorites: Most strikeouts, major leagues: 5714. Most strikeouts, season, major leagues: 383, California, 1973. Most years, 200 or more strikeouts, major leagues: 15. Most years, 300 or more strikeouts, major leagues: 6. Most times, 15 or more strikeouts, game, major leagues: 26. Most times, 10 or more strikeouts, game, major leagues: 215. Most times, 10 or more strikeouts, game, season: 23, California 1973. Three strikeouts, inning, on nine pitches: 2 (tied). Most consecutive strikeouts, game, American League: 8 (tied, did it twice). Most strikeouts, two consecutive games, major leagues: 32 (tied, 13 and 19, 17 IP). Most strikeouts, three consecutive games, major leagues: 47 (19, 9, and 19, 27.1 IP). Most clubs shut out, season, major leagues: 8, California, 1972. (tied) Highest strikeout average per nine innings, career: 9.55 (5714 strikeouts in 5387 innings). Lowest hits allowed average per nine innings, season: 5.26, California, 1972, 166 hiys, 284 innings. Lowest hits allowed average per nine innings, career: 6.55 (3923 hits in 5387 innings). Most no-hitters pitched, major leagues: 7. Most one-hit games, career, major leagues: 12 (tied). I also read in Baseball Digest that he holds the record for most two-hitters, but I can't find any specific information online because the internet f***ing sucks. What you are looking at is a monster, ptatc. An absolute f***ing monster. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SpringfieldFan Posted May 20, 2006 Share Posted May 20, 2006 (edited) QUOTE(hammerhead johnson @ May 20, 2006 -> 12:36 AM) I'd actually say that his 55 MLB records would put him over the edge. Some of my favorites: Most strikeouts, major leagues: 5714. Most strikeouts, season, major leagues: 383, California, 1973. Most years, 200 or more strikeouts, major leagues: 15. Most years, 300 or more strikeouts, major leagues: 6. Most times, 15 or more strikeouts, game, major leagues: 26. Most times, 10 or more strikeouts, game, major leagues: 215. Most times, 10 or more strikeouts, game, season: 23, California 1973. Three strikeouts, inning, on nine pitches: 2 (tied). Most consecutive strikeouts, game, American League: 8 (tied, did it twice). Most strikeouts, two consecutive games, major leagues: 32 (tied, 13 and 19, 17 IP). Most strikeouts, three consecutive games, major leagues: 47 (19, 9, and 19, 27.1 IP). Most clubs shut out, season, major leagues: 8, California, 1972. (tied) Highest strikeout average per nine innings, career: 9.55 (5714 strikeouts in 5387 innings). Lowest hits allowed average per nine innings, season: 5.26, California, 1972, 166 hiys, 284 innings. Lowest hits allowed average per nine innings, career: 6.55 (3923 hits in 5387 innings). Most no-hitters pitched, major leagues: 7. Most one-hit games, career, major leagues: 12 (tied). I also read in Baseball Digest that he holds the record for most two-hitters, but I can't find any specific information online because the internet f***ing sucks. What you are looking at is a monster, ptatc. An absolute f***ing monster. He was one of a kind. That year he had 383 strikeouts - does anyone have a resource to check the box scores? I believe he got the final strikeout in like the 12th or 13th inning and had thrown 150 pitches . The durability was as amazing as anything - not just for he length of his career but for the innings he would pitch in a game and season. SFF Edited May 20, 2006 by SpringfieldFan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ptatc Posted May 20, 2006 Share Posted May 20, 2006 (edited) QUOTE(hammerhead johnson @ May 20, 2006 -> 12:36 AM) I'd actually say that his 55 MLB records would put him over the edge. Some of my favorites: Most strikeouts, major leagues: 5714. Most strikeouts, season, major leagues: 383, California, 1973. Most years, 200 or more strikeouts, major leagues: 15. Most years, 300 or more strikeouts, major leagues: 6. Most times, 15 or more strikeouts, game, major leagues: 26. Most times, 10 or more strikeouts, game, major leagues: 215. Most times, 10 or more strikeouts, game, season: 23, California 1973. Three strikeouts, inning, on nine pitches: 2 (tied). Most consecutive strikeouts, game, American League: 8 (tied, did it twice). Most strikeouts, two consecutive games, major leagues: 32 (tied, 13 and 19, 17 IP). Most strikeouts, three consecutive games, major leagues: 47 (19, 9, and 19, 27.1 IP). Most clubs shut out, season, major leagues: 8, California, 1972. (tied) Highest strikeout average per nine innings, career: 9.55 (5714 strikeouts in 5387 innings). Lowest hits allowed average per nine innings, season: 5.26, California, 1972, 166 hiys, 284 innings. Lowest hits allowed average per nine innings, career: 6.55 (3923 hits in 5387 innings). Most no-hitters pitched, major leagues: 7. Most one-hit games, career, major leagues: 12 (tied). I also read in Baseball Digest that he holds the record for most two-hitters, but I can't find any specific information online because the internet f***ing sucks. What you are looking at is a monster, ptatc. An absolute f***ing monster. I agree he blongs there. But again you list all of the records that deal with strikeouts. I don't know if stirkeouts make you a great pitcher. They might but it's not my only criteria. I'm sure he has equally impressive numbers with walks. I don't consider all of the records with just strikeouts necessarily worthy of HOF. But overall his career pushes him over the edge. If you are around long enough you will compile enough numbers to make it. I also like the Eddie Murray example. Again a guy who compiled it over a long time to rank as one of the best. How about Rapheal Palmeiro? He is in that group with Murray with 500 HR and 3000 hits. Should he go in? I don't know. Edited May 20, 2006 by ptatc Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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