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Raines in the HOF?


maggsmaggs

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Looking at his numbers, they are much more impressive than I thought. Over 2600 hits, 5th on the career stolen base list, a nice long career and an All-Star MVP (1987).

http://baseballreference.com/r/raineti01.shtml

 

I think he has a viable shot, what about you guys?

 

EDIT: I meant for this to be a poll, but I messed up. Could an Admin make it a poll with "yes" or "no," please? Thanks in advance.

Edited by maggsmaggs
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The Hall of Fame irks me because players that DO deserve it don't get in. It's got a reputation for ignoring Hall of Famers, and I'm hesitant to say that someone like, oh, Robin Ventura will make it because of its nature.

 

I don't think Baines will make it. Should he? I think so, for recognition of his stolen bases alone. But I don't cast that vote, unfortunately.

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Uh, Robin Ventura is not a HOFer. Not even close. Raines is close, but he shouldn't be in. He was a good or above average player for a long time, however, when players such as Rock try and get in, I think a few questions are asked:

 

Was he ever the best player in the league, even for a year?

Was he the best player on a championship team?

 

Unfortunetly, Rock answers "no" to both those questions.

 

Rock was one of my favorite players growing up a Sox fan in the early 90's, and his career was a good one, but not HOF worthy.

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Phil Rizzuto is in the Hall of Fame, but Bert Blyleven and Goose Gossage aren't. That's about all you need to know.

 

Being on a good team helps a lot, especially if it's the Yankees.

Edited by ZoomSlowik
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QUOTE(chitownsportsfan @ May 19, 2006 -> 06:27 PM)
Uh, Robin Ventura is not a HOFer. Not even close. Raines is close, but he shouldn't be in. He was a good or above average player for a long time, however, when players such as Rock try and get in, I think a few questions are asked:

 

Was he ever the best player in the league, even for a year?

Was he the best player on a championship team?

 

Unfortunetly, Rock answers "no" to both those questions.

 

Rock was one of my favorite players growing up a Sox fan in the early 90's, and his career was a good one, but not HOF worthy.

 

This is always a way I think about it also. However, there are some excetions. Nolan Ryan for example. Should he be in the Hall of Fame? He was never the best pitcher in any given year. No Cy Youngs. His average record for his career is barely over .500. While he holds the record for most strikeouts he also holds the record for most walks in a career. From these numbers I don't know but the BIG thing to put it over the edge is the no-hitters.

 

So, he is obviously a Hall of Famer but was never the best pitcher in any given year. So sometimes that criteria needs to be altered.

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QUOTE(ptatc @ May 19, 2006 -> 11:12 PM)
This is always a way I think about it also. However, there are some excetions. Nolan Ryan for example. Should he be in the Hall of Fame? He was never the best pitcher in any given year. No Cy Youngs. His average record for his career is barely over .500. While he holds the record for most strikeouts he also holds the record for most walks in a career. From these numbers I don't know but the BIG thing to put it over the edge is the no-hitters.

 

So, he is obviously a Hall of Famer but was never the best pitcher in any given year. So sometimes that criteria needs to be altered.

 

Well I would say at least a top 5 player at any given time, maybe top 3 at some times. Either that or the top player at your position. The best player in the game is a little harsh, especially if you played in an era with guys like Ruth and Gehrig, or Mays, Aaron, and Musial. Even for the 90's, unless your name was Thomas, Griffey, Bonds, McGwire, or Sosa in the field or Maddux, Clemens, or Pedro on the mound, you weren't even close to #1. (Yeah, I know you could argue differently by awards, but I don't consider that solid evidence).

 

Using that logic, one guy that wouldn't even be close to the hall is Eddie Murray. Yes, his career numbers are fantastic. However, he has one batting title, no homerun or RBI crowns, and no MVP's. That batting title was also his only appearance in the top 5 in the league in batting average or homers his entire career. He had a long, solid career however, which is why he is in. He might not be one of my favorites, but it's hard to argue with the final totals.

Edited by ZoomSlowik
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Percentage-wise, he was a better basestealer than anybody in the top 10. Excellent on-base percentage, largely in an era that favored pitchers. Probably the best leadoff man not named Rickey Henderson.

 

He deserves a good, hard look by the voters. The offensive explosion of the 1990s has really screwed with the stars of the '80s.

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QUOTE(ptatc @ May 20, 2006 -> 04:12 AM)
This is always a way I think about it also. However, there are some excetions. Nolan Ryan for example. Should he be in the Hall of Fame? He was never the best pitcher in any given year. No Cy Youngs. His average record for his career is barely over .500. While he holds the record for most strikeouts he also holds the record for most walks in a career. From these numbers I don't know but the BIG thing to put it over the edge is the no-hitters.

 

I'd actually say that his 55 MLB records would put him over the edge. :D

 

Some of my favorites:

 

Most strikeouts, major leagues: 5714.

Most strikeouts, season, major leagues: 383, California, 1973.

Most years, 200 or more strikeouts, major leagues: 15.

Most years, 300 or more strikeouts, major leagues: 6.

Most times, 15 or more strikeouts, game, major leagues: 26.

Most times, 10 or more strikeouts, game, major leagues: 215.

Most times, 10 or more strikeouts, game, season: 23, California 1973.

Three strikeouts, inning, on nine pitches: 2 (tied).

Most consecutive strikeouts, game, American League: 8 (tied, did it twice).

Most strikeouts, two consecutive games, major leagues: 32 (tied, 13 and 19, 17 IP).

Most strikeouts, three consecutive games, major leagues: 47 (19, 9, and 19, 27.1 IP).

Most clubs shut out, season, major leagues: 8, California, 1972. (tied)

Highest strikeout average per nine innings, career: 9.55 (5714 strikeouts in 5387 innings).

Lowest hits allowed average per nine innings, season: 5.26, California, 1972, 166 hiys, 284 innings.

Lowest hits allowed average per nine innings, career: 6.55 (3923 hits in 5387 innings).

Most no-hitters pitched, major leagues: 7.

Most one-hit games, career, major leagues: 12 (tied).

 

I also read in Baseball Digest that he holds the record for most two-hitters, but I can't find any specific information online because the internet f***ing sucks.

 

What you are looking at is a monster, ptatc. An absolute f***ing monster.

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QUOTE(hammerhead johnson @ May 20, 2006 -> 12:36 AM)
I'd actually say that his 55 MLB records would put him over the edge. :D

 

Some of my favorites:

 

Most strikeouts, major leagues: 5714.

Most strikeouts, season, major leagues: 383, California, 1973.

Most years, 200 or more strikeouts, major leagues: 15.

Most years, 300 or more strikeouts, major leagues: 6.

Most times, 15 or more strikeouts, game, major leagues: 26.

Most times, 10 or more strikeouts, game, major leagues: 215.

Most times, 10 or more strikeouts, game, season: 23, California 1973.

Three strikeouts, inning, on nine pitches: 2 (tied).

Most consecutive strikeouts, game, American League: 8 (tied, did it twice).

Most strikeouts, two consecutive games, major leagues: 32 (tied, 13 and 19, 17 IP).

Most strikeouts, three consecutive games, major leagues: 47 (19, 9, and 19, 27.1 IP).

Most clubs shut out, season, major leagues: 8, California, 1972. (tied)

Highest strikeout average per nine innings, career: 9.55 (5714 strikeouts in 5387 innings).

Lowest hits allowed average per nine innings, season: 5.26, California, 1972, 166 hiys, 284 innings.

Lowest hits allowed average per nine innings, career: 6.55 (3923 hits in 5387 innings).

Most no-hitters pitched, major leagues: 7.

Most one-hit games, career, major leagues: 12 (tied).

 

I also read in Baseball Digest that he holds the record for most two-hitters, but I can't find any specific information online because the internet f***ing sucks.

 

What you are looking at is a monster, ptatc. An absolute f***ing monster.

 

He was one of a kind. That year he had 383 strikeouts - does anyone have a resource to check the box scores? I believe he got the final strikeout in like the 12th or 13th inning and had thrown 150 pitches :o . The durability was as amazing as anything - not just for he length of his career but for the innings he would pitch in a game and season.

 

SFF

Edited by SpringfieldFan
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QUOTE(hammerhead johnson @ May 20, 2006 -> 12:36 AM)
I'd actually say that his 55 MLB records would put him over the edge. :D

 

Some of my favorites:

 

Most strikeouts, major leagues: 5714.

Most strikeouts, season, major leagues: 383, California, 1973.

Most years, 200 or more strikeouts, major leagues: 15.

Most years, 300 or more strikeouts, major leagues: 6.

Most times, 15 or more strikeouts, game, major leagues: 26.

Most times, 10 or more strikeouts, game, major leagues: 215.

Most times, 10 or more strikeouts, game, season: 23, California 1973.

Three strikeouts, inning, on nine pitches: 2 (tied).

Most consecutive strikeouts, game, American League: 8 (tied, did it twice).

Most strikeouts, two consecutive games, major leagues: 32 (tied, 13 and 19, 17 IP).

Most strikeouts, three consecutive games, major leagues: 47 (19, 9, and 19, 27.1 IP).

Most clubs shut out, season, major leagues: 8, California, 1972. (tied)

Highest strikeout average per nine innings, career: 9.55 (5714 strikeouts in 5387 innings).

Lowest hits allowed average per nine innings, season: 5.26, California, 1972, 166 hiys, 284 innings.

Lowest hits allowed average per nine innings, career: 6.55 (3923 hits in 5387 innings).

Most no-hitters pitched, major leagues: 7.

Most one-hit games, career, major leagues: 12 (tied).

 

I also read in Baseball Digest that he holds the record for most two-hitters, but I can't find any specific information online because the internet f***ing sucks.

 

What you are looking at is a monster, ptatc. An absolute f***ing monster.

 

I agree he blongs there. But again you list all of the records that deal with strikeouts. I don't know if stirkeouts make you a great pitcher. They might but it's not my only criteria. I'm sure he has equally impressive numbers with walks. I don't consider all of the records with just strikeouts necessarily worthy of HOF. But overall his career pushes him over the edge. If you are around long enough you will compile enough numbers to make it.

 

I also like the Eddie Murray example. Again a guy who compiled it over a long time to rank as one of the best.

 

How about Rapheal Palmeiro? He is in that group with Murray with 500 HR and 3000 hits. Should he go in? I don't know.

Edited by ptatc
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