JEFF NELSON

[YASNY]

That DP ball was about as routine as routine could be. Cotts got the big pitch he needed to get out of the inning. The defense let him down.

[WCSox]

Uh, if Paul actually does his job, Escobar never faces Crede. Escobar got the out, Josh Paul screwed the play up.

 

My point was that Escobar got a bad break. He had every chance to get out of that inning with two outs and a runner at first and he failed. Cotts did the same thing.

 

Neal did his job, the defense didn't do theirs.

 

If we go past the double-play-that-wasn't and the catch-in-CF-that-wasn't (and I still contend that the latter wasn't an easy play at all), we now have a tie ballgame. Cotts then gives up a two-run homer to lose it. So, no, Neal didn't do his job.

Edited May 22, 2006 by WCSox

[southsider2k5]

My point was that Escobar got a bad break. He had every chance to hold onto that lead with two outs and a runner at first and he failed. Cotts did the same thing.

If we go past the double-play-that-wasn't and the catch-in-CF-that-wasn't (and I still contend that the latter wasn't an easy play at all), we now have a tie ballgame. Cotts then gives up a two-run homer to lose it. So, no, Neal didn't do his job.

 

If EITHER of those plays is made, we are out of the inning, and none of the rest of that stuff matters. You keep missing the point that Neal got 4 outs in that inning, when he only needed to record two. Not only did he do his job, he did it multiple times because other players weren't doing theirs. Not only did he pitch over one mistake, he pitched over two mistakes, and still didn't get his teammates upholding their part of the bargin. There are nine guys out on that field, and it takes all of them working to win a game. You can't hold the pitcher responsible for what the other eight guys do and don't do.

[knightni]

Just one observation, and I don't know if anyone else thinks this or not... But if Brian Anderson is in CF, he makes that catch slowing down, and we get out of the inning... Mack took a Carl Everett route to the ball. He is awful in CF.

 

I agree.

 

I'd love the Sox to work out a trade for Joey Gathright from the D'Rays.

 

Raines can work on his stealing with him.

 

Mack isn't cutting it in CF.

[SleepyWhiteSox]

Cotts then gives up a two-run homer to lose it. So, no, Neal didn't do his job.

 

That wasn't the first error in baseball ever.

 

He still should have put it behind him and kept pitching. Back your team up.

 

Uribe deserves a lot of the blame, but Cotts isn't faultless nor did he "do his job."

[WCSox]

If EITHER of those plays is made, we are out of the inning, and none of the rest of that stuff matters. You keep missing the point that Neal got 4 outs in that inning, when he only needed to record two. Not only did he do his job, he did it multiple times because other players weren't doing theirs. Not only did he pitch over one mistake, he pitched over two mistakes, and still didn't get his teammates upholding their part of the bargin. There are nine guys out on that field, and it takes all of them working to win a game. You can't hold the pitcher responsible for what the other eight guys do and don't do.

 

I agree that the defense was far from spectacular, but Neal shouldn't need Ozzie Smith and Willie Mays to record two outs and preserve a two-run lead. The double play should've been turned, but the liner to the RCF gap was far from a can of corn. Not many CFs would've made that play. Maybe Anderson would've and maybe he wouldn't have. But it wasn't a routine play at all.

 

But even if we put all of that aside, we only have a tie game. At this point, Neal loses it by throwing a terrible pitch to Jacques Freaking Jones. Hence he didn't do his job.

[Guest JimH]

Mack isn't cutting it in CF.

 

To me, Mackowiak is serviceable out there but that's it. His best position is RF from what I've seen. If the White Sox have to live without Anderson's defense for any length of time it will cause a problem.

 

On the Cotts issue, I agree with Mike up to a point. Absolutely correct the defense let him down and after closely looking at the triple I believe it's a play Anderson would've made. However every major league pitcher will at one time or another have to pitch over mistakes. Unfortunately Neal had to pitch over one glaring mistake (the botched DP) and the arguable mistake (Mack not catching the triple and/or Guillen not having Anderson out there for defense).

 

Technically his job isn't over until he gets out of the inning ... fair or unfair. It is unfair to him that he has to get extra outs due to shaky defense but then again this team should be able to count on him vs. a Jacque Jones. I didn't think the pitch to Barrett was that bad, Barrett went out and got it. The pitch to Jones was up and out over the plate though, and if anyone should have a good scouting report on Jacque Jones, it's the White Sox. Cotts himself admitted it was a bad pitch.

[Kalapse]

I agree.

 

I'd love the Sox to work out a trade for Joey Gathright from the D'Rays.

 

Raines can work on his stealing with him.

 

Mack isn't cutting it in CF.

If you don't like Mack in CF then you definately should not be mentioning Gathright, the guys does absolutely nothing well except run. His arm strength is equal to that of Pierre. It would be a waste of the prospects it would take to get him.

[WCSox]

I think we can all agree that the Sox can't make a habit of melting down in the 8th, epecially against bad teams like the Cubs.

[knightni]

Gathright does have his issues, but he certainly could catch up to balls in CF.

[Kalapse]

Gathright does have his issues, but he certainly could catch up to balls in CF.

Yes, he'll get bad reads but his track star speed would allow him to get to the balls that he missplays then after he catches the ball in short right center field he can roll the ball into homeplate while runners go wild running the bases on him. At the plate he has zero power and isn't even a very good contact hitter, has no grasp of the strike zone and has poor technique when attempting to steal bases. Yeah but he is pretty fast.

[knightni]

He'd only be a backup.

 

Certainly his D can be worked on.

[greasywheels121]

He'd only be a backup.

 

Certainly his D can be worked on.

 

Mack's only a back-up too.

[bjm676]

Talking about Jeff Nelson's struggles in Charlotte makes the loss of Dustin Hermanson so much more painful. Let's hope Dustin can recover for the second half and Nelson is just a temporary stopgap. Although that's probably just a pipedream.

[Chisoxfn]

To me, Mackowiak is serviceable out there but that's it. His best position is RF from what I've seen. If the White Sox have to live without Anderson's defense for any length of time it will cause a problem.

 

On the Cotts issue, I agree with Mike up to a point. Absolutely correct the defense let him down and after closely looking at the triple I believe it's a play Anderson would've made. However every major league pitcher will at one time or another have to pitch over mistakes. Unfortunately Neal had to pitch over one glaring mistake (the botched DP) and the arguable mistake (Mack not catching the triple and/or Guillen not having Anderson out there for defense).

 

Technically his job isn't over until he gets out of the inning ... fair or unfair. It is unfair to him that he has to get extra outs due to shaky defense but then again this team should be able to count on him vs. a Jacque Jones. I didn't think the pitch to Barrett was that bad, Barrett went out and got it. The pitch to Jones was up and out over the plate though, and if anyone should have a good scouting report on Jacque Jones, it's the White Sox. Cotts himself admitted it was a bad pitch.

[bogie]

No he didn't. After the double-play-that-wasn't, they still had the lead with two outs with a runner on first. He then gave up a triple and two-run homer. Did his job, my ass.

Maybe if:

Uribe would have done his job with the double play throw;

Ozzie would have done his job by putting Jenks or Politte in to pitch to Barett...

( I love Ozzie but even he said he screwed up).........

[Guest JimH]

Jason what are your minor league contacts telling you about Nelson?

 

I know he's still under evaluation and that process will likely run through this week at least.

 

Do they think he can still get major league hitters out?

 

Also am I correct in thinking the White Sox are higher on this Augustin Montero guy than this board?

[bogie]

Jason what are your minor league contacts telling you about Nelson?

 

I know he's still under evaluation and that process will likely run through this week at least.

 

Do they think he can still get major league hitters out?

 

Also am I correct in thinking the White Sox are higher on this Augustin Montero guy than this board?

Trust me, the Sox brass is far from thinking Nelson is an option.

[Guest JimH]

Trust me, the Sox brass is far from thinking Nelson is an option.

 

I had my own inkling about this but sure would appreciate you sharing more.

[Dick Allen]

Trust me, the Sox brass is far from thinking Nelson is an option.

That's saying something especially if they think Montero or Logan were/are major league pitchers. The bullpen needs help. Rogo, Owens, Gload, everyone on Charlotte's pitching staff, maybe even Fields depending on how interested Crede would be in signing a reasonable extension, should be used as bait. Its obviously not the most attractive bait, but if the Sox are willing to take on some money, its possible they may land a good reliever.

[WCSox]

maybe even Fields depending on how interested Crede would be in signing a reasonable extension, should be used as bait. Its obviously not the most attractive bait, but if the Sox are willing to take on some money, its possible they may land a good reliever.

 

^^^

 

Fortunately, good setup men typically don't cost an arm and a leg. Trading Fields might not be the best move in the long run, but winning now is paramount.

[fathom]

You don't trade Josh Fields for a middle reliever, plain and simple.

[Dick Allen]

You don't trade Josh Fields for a middle reliever, plain and simple.

It depends on who it is. Most of the teams willing to trade guys have bad teams because their players suck. It obviously would have to be a pretty good pitcher you would get back to trade Fields, although I'm not sold on Fields being a good major league player.

[fathom]

It depends on who it is. Most of the teams willing to trade guys have bad teams because their players suck. It obviously would have to be a pretty good pitcher you would get back to trade Fields, although I'm not sold on Fields being a good major league player.

 

The only long reliever in baseball I would trade Fields for is Scot Shields. Since the Angels won't be trading him, I'd much rather hold on to Fields.

[Chisoxfn]

The only long reliever in baseball I would trade Fields for is Scot Shields. Since the Angels won't be trading him, I'd much rather hold on to Fields.

I'd rather deal him for Bradley Lidge

 

But Shields is another guy that could become available (since the Angels SUCK).