Next year - Mac in Rotation?

[WCSox]

Its obvious [that] you don't make business decisions on a daily basis.

 

For future reference, throwing out veiled insults with poor spelling and grammar is counter-productive.

 

You have a young pitcher who has 5+ years of quality baseball left in his arm, and still hasnt hit his prime. And you have a pitcher who is just on the downswing of his prime years, and should enjoy one of his last productive years. Which one do you deal? The one at peak worth, or the one whose peak is still in the future?

 

You're making the assumption that Garland hasn't reached his potential yet. I'm not sure I agree. He has over 1,000 innings of major-league pitching under his belt and has worked under one of the best pitching coaches in MLB for over three years now. But he has already regressed so far from his career-best 2005 numbers this season that he won't be anywhere near them by the end of September. Realistically, I don't think that Jon isn't going to do much better than last year's numbers. He was never close before and, after supposedly turning the corner last season, is on pace to have a season that's well below his career average.

 

If I have the choice between two more years of mediocre pitching for $20 million or one more year of Freddy and $20 million freed up to, say, re-sign Buehrle and/or sign another free agent, I'll go with the latter. But if Judy can turn it around, I would strongly consider going with him instead. In other words, nobody's going to be able to answer this question until the end of September.

[santo=dorf]

QUOTE(RockRaines @ May 22, 2006 -> 01:19 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Great thread idea BTW. I voted for Freddy based on age mostly, but also that we could trade him, and for a nice price as well.

What's wrong with his age? He's not even 30.

 

Dump Garland after he gets his overall numbers down. Hopefully he pitches well at the end of the season.

[Chisoxfn]

Lets debate this more after Garland throws a no hitter tonight

[Balta1701]

Lets debate this more after Garland throws a no hitter tonight

I'm preemptively informing you that I'll blame you when Jon gives up his first hit tonight. Just so you know.

[Felix]

BTW, this thread is gold to be bookmarked and should be looked back on in December....

Please do. I'll admit it if I'm wrong. I was wrong about Contreras this offseason in terms of his production, and he's proven that, but Garland has yet to prove me wrong in any sense.

[greasywheels121]

Please do. I'll admit it if I'm wrong. I was wrong about Contreras this offseason in terms of his production, and he's proven that, but Garland has yet to prove me wrong in any sense.

 

Stuff certainly does change though. No one had Contreras in the playoff rotation this time last year. And he was and has been our ace since the 05 ASB.

[Felix]

Stuff certainly does change though. No one had Contreras in the playoff rotation this time last year. And he was and has been our ace since the 05 ASB.

Since you have special admin powers, could you find the Garland contract extension thread? I tried looking for it some time ago, but I couldn't find it in any of the past pages for Pale Hose Talk

[Heads22]

http://www.soxtalk.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=44876

[Felix]

http://www.soxtalk.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=44876

Many thanks

[RockRaines]

For future reference, throwing out veiled insults with poor spelling and grammar is counter-productive.

For future reference, this is not a term paper, and I do not grammar check my posts on a message board. Secondly, it wasnt an insult, just an observation. If your goal is to make business decisions on a daily basis, im sorry that you thought I was getting down on you.

[Dam8610]

Intriguing question. I think Mac should replace Freddy either in 07 or 08.

[RME JICO]

I think it all depends on what happens this season. There is a good chance that two of the current starting pitchers could be gone for 2007 and definitely by 2008.

 

Garland has been pretty bad this year, and he has been bad vs some bad teams. He has pitched vs (KC x3, SEA, OAK, LAA, MIN, TAM, and DET). Detroit is really the only high scoring offense he faced, yet his ERA is still over 6.00. He has already given up 13 HRs this year compared to the 26 he gave up all of last year. It is still early, but he needs to turn it up a notch, otherwise he will be the one that B-Mac replaces.

 

Buehrle is the only Lefty Starter, so I think the Sox will do whatever they can to sign him to an extension. Unless the Sox think they can get Zito or some other Lefty of that caliber, they will more than likely hang onto Mark.

 

Vazquez has been solid for the season except for the last two outings and that one inning vs TOR. It will interesting to see what the Sox decide to do with him. They are getting him for a reduced price right now, and it will be interesting to see if they resign him at full price.

 

Garcia is off to the best start of his career (record-wise), and he has been really solid except for his first start. If he continues to get better like he has so far, it will be hard for the Sox to let him go.

 

The Count is not going anywhere.

 

The other thing to consider is the minor league pitchers (Phillips, Broadway, Lumsden), maybe not in 07, but definitely in 08. One of these guys could be up by then.

[beck72]

Garcia's ERA (3.92) is now back down to his career ERA (3.93) and he has a 7-1 record. He could be a #1 pitcher on some teams and would be a #2 pitcher on most teams. He should definately net us some goodies if the Sox decide to trade him in the offseason and he does make the most sense to trade.

Do you mean "The Untouchable" Rich Hill? The guy that Jim Hendry wouldn't trade for Adam Dunn?

 

If the Sox want BMac to start in 2007, having Garcia, Vaz, MB and Jose around makes more sense. You keep the more experienced and successful SP's around to ease Mac into the rotation. Garland and his self prophesed "lack of confidence" should be gone [Why Jon lacks confidence in his stuff after 2005 is beyond me?!] Jon would still net a good return being under contract for 2 more years. Freddy would be under contract for only 1 more.

[TLAK]

Vazquez has been solid for the season except for the last two outings and that one inning vs TOR.

 

So he's made 8 starts with 3 of them sub-par. Sounds like his whole career.

 

He could throw a no hitter tonight, then get blown up next trip. You just don't know what you're going to get with this guy. Its too early to give up on him but he shouldn't be mentioned in the Buerhle, Garcia, Contreras class in my eyes.

[ShoeLessRob]

So he's made 8 starts with 3 of them sub-par. Sounds like his whole career.

 

He could throw a no hitter tonight, then get blown up next trip. You just don't know what you're going to get with this guy. Its too early to give up on him but he shouldn't be mentioned in the Buerhle, Garcia, Contreras class in my eyes.

 

Agreed ... Mark, Jose, and Freddy have been getting outs and W's for years ... Until Javy can do it conistantly then he doesn't get the elte status even though he has a hell of an upside.

[Dick Allen]

Agreed ... Mark, Jose, and Freddy have been getting outs and W's for years ... Until Javy can do it conistantly then he doesn't get the elte status even though he has a hell of an upside.

He has Contreras-like upside. He's had some great starts. 3 of them though were against the Royals, maybe the most pathetic franchise in pro sports. He's had some good years, but really even with his stuff, playing on some lousy teams has rendered his career mediocre thus far. He's seems like a right handed Floyd Bannister to me. A guy with great stuff, who could be unhittable at times, and might have a great year or 2, but will never put it together to the point that you think that he couldn't or shouldn't have been better. If you look at game logs though, he's consistent in the fact that he twirls gems a lot, and has the occassional games were he gives up 7 runs.

[spiderman]

Does Guillen's relationship with Garcia make him more likely to sign a reasonable extension this upcoming offseason ???

 

If the answer is no, then I think Garcia is most likely to be traded.

 

Garland would be the answer, but if he is going to be mediocre at best for $9 million a year for the next 2 seasons, it's going to be difficult to find a taker without eating 1/2 of that money.

 

Buerhle, you'd think would be here forever as well, but like Garcia, if they can't work out a long-term deal, maybe Williams would consider him...I do think that Buerhle is the least likely to be moved though.

 

He has Contreras-like upside. He's had some great starts. 3 of them though were against the Royals, maybe the most pathetic franchise in pro sports. He's had some good years, but really even with his stuff, playing on some lousy teams has rendered his career mediocre thus far. He's seems like a right handed Floyd Bannister to me. A guy with great stuff, who could be unhittable at times, and might have a great year or 2, but will never put it together to the point that you think that he couldn't or shouldn't have been better. If you look at game logs though, he's consistent in the fact that he twirls gems a lot, and has the occassional games were he gives up 7 runs.

 

 

Vacquez, Guillen and Cooper just need to get on the same page. Vacquez has looked great in most of his starts through about 5 innings, and then just falls apart. I'm not sure if that's related to fatigue or mechanics....

[TLAK]

He has Contreras-like upside. He's had some great starts. 3 of them though were against the Royals, maybe the most pathetic franchise in pro sports. He's had some good years, but really even with his stuff, playing on some lousy teams has rendered his career mediocre thus far. He's seems like a right handed Floyd Bannister to me. A guy with great stuff, who could be unhittable at times, and might have a great year or 2, but will never put it together to the point that you think that he couldn't or shouldn't have been better. If you look at game logs though, he's consistent in the fact that he twirls gems a lot, and has the occassional games were he gives up 7 runs.

You pegged it! Thats a great comparison. I just looked up Bannister's day by day to make sure memory served. Most of the time he'd tool along with 3 ER, 4, 2, 0 then POW! 9, 7 ... back to 3, 2... He was lights out at the end of '83 and the Sox rode him and the rest of starters into the playoffs. I hope history repeats for Javier, but to be realistic its more of a hope than a an expectation.