Thornton

[RockRaines]

Where would he play?

Dont know. But you have to think that Coop would have been able to 1. Develop a better training program for both Prior and Wood so that they are at least ready to come back and play. 2.Be able to tweak his delivery a touch so that he is somewhat less prone to injury.

 

I just feel that Rothchild has not helped the situation at all with those guys, and I wouldnt mind taking a chance on Wood. Of course it wouldnt happen in a million years.

[G&T]

Dont know. But you have to think that Coop would have been able to 1. Develop a better training program for both Prior and Wood so that they are at least ready to come back and play. 2.Be able to tweak his delivery a touch so that he is somewhat less prone to injury.

 

I think the problem has been that they don't listen and the organization covers for them. Right now though, I don't think Prior wants to pitch for the Cubs and he'll remain "injured" for a while. But that's just me talking.

[southsider2k5]

Dont know. But you have to think that Coop would have been able to 1. Develop a better training program for both Prior and Wood so that they are at least ready to come back and play. 2.Be able to tweak his delivery a touch so that he is somewhat less prone to injury.

 

I just feel that Rothchild has not helped the situation at all with those guys, and I wouldnt mind taking a chance on Wood. Of course it wouldnt happen in a million years.

 

Being perfectly serious, I think a guy like Wood would be a perfect project for Cooper, IF he were willing to listen AND to implement the changes. I think somewhere in time someone has told Wood how to fix his angles and it is obvious he hasn't listened. But I don't think the Sox would look at the guy with as injury prone and as expensive as he is and will be. When it comes to pitching, the Sox definately look for the guys who take the ball every 5 days.

[RockRaines]

Being perfectly serious, I think a guy like Wood would be a perfect project for Cooper, IF he were willing to listen AND to implement the changes. I think somewhere in time someone has told Wood how to fix his angles and it is obvious he hasn't listened. But I don't think the Sox would look at the guy with as injury prone and as expensive as he is and will be. When it comes to pitching, the Sox definately look for the guys who take the ball every 5 days.

I agree, thats why it wouldnt ever happen. BUt given Coop's ability to make pitchers listen, and his obvious knowledge of mechanics, it would be a project that could suceed.

[nitetrain8601]

Being perfectly serious, I think a guy like Wood would be a perfect project for Cooper, IF he were willing to listen AND to implement the changes. I think somewhere in time someone has told Wood how to fix his angles and it is obvious he hasn't listened. But I don't think the Sox would look at the guy with as injury prone and as expensive as he is and will be. When it comes to pitching, the Sox definately look for the guys who take the ball every 5 days.

 

He's a FA at the end of the year.

 

[Harry Chappas]

The thing I see about Thorton is that guys just try to put the ball in play against him like they do against Jenks. They give up crappy hits and can be dinked to death. I also think that other guys are more patient against Jenks and Thorton because they know they may have trouble catching up to the heat.

 

I think Thorton and Jenks have better pitches than just the fastball but being a reliever they to do have the luxury to establish different pitches and find out what is working. They have to make good pitches from the get go.

 

In the World Series extra inning game, Jenks was throwing a ton of sliders. In the 9th inning though you do not want to be beat on a slider if your fastball is a better pitch. Jenks got comfortable with the curve last night and made Crosby look like a fool.

 

Both of these guys are converted front line starters with 3 major league pitches. Location is all they need to be a devastating duo.

Edited May 23, 2006 by Jenks Heat

[southsider2k5]

He's a FA at the end of the year.

 

 

He's still going to get more money and time than he is worth.

 

 

And is going to get a ton of money from a team that will regret it after seeing Wood make more starts for the AA team in rehab than the big league club.

 

I have a feeling the next team that signs him will get him to change somethings and all of the sudden he becomes a productive starting pitcher... that is as long as he leaves Chicago. If he went somewhere like Texas with a guy like Orel Hershizer to work with him, we could see Kerry realize his potential... finally.

[kapkomet]

He's still going to get more money and time than he is worth.

I have a feeling the next team that signs him will get him to change somethings and all of the sudden he becomes a productive starting pitcher... that is as long as he leaves Chicago. If he went somewhere like Texas with a guy like Orel Hershizer to work with him, we could see Kerry realize his potential... finally.

Except Hershiser isn't here anymore.

[Kalapse]

Except Hershiser isn't here anymore.

Is that why he's working for BBTN?

[Balta1701]

He's still going to get more money and time than he is worth.

I have a feeling the next team that signs him will get him to change somethings and all of the sudden he becomes a productive starting pitcher... that is as long as he leaves Chicago. If he went somewhere like Texas with a guy like Orel Hershizer to work with him, we could see Kerry realize his potential... finally.

With the wrong pitching coach, $450k a year is more than he's worth. Personally, even if he goes to the right situation, I think he's probably still too damn stubborn to listen. He's got that Texan in him (no offense folks) where he just thinks he's bigger than everyone else and he doesn't have to listen. He seems like he just runs around thinking "I struck out 20 in a game, I don't need no stinkin' coachin'".

[NYSox35]

This has certainly become a very one-sided trade in favor of KW!

[RockRaines]

The thing I see about Thorton is that guys just try to put the ball in play against him like they do against Jenks. They give up crappy hits and can be dinked to death. I also think that other guys are more patient against Jenks and Thorton because they know they may have trouble catching up to the heat.

 

I think Thorton and Jenks have better pitches than just the fastball but being a reliever they to do have the luxury to establish different pitches and find out what is working. They have to make good pitches from the get go.

 

In the World Series extra inning game, Jenks was throwing a ton of sliders. In the 9th inning though you do not want to be beat on a slider if your fastball is a better pitch. Jenks got comfortable with the curve last night and made Crosby look like a fool.

 

Both of these guys are converted front line starters with 3 major league pitches. Location is all they need to be a devastating duo.

Slider, Curve, 12-6 curve was unhittable last night.

[whitesoxfan101]

I was there Saturday and his performance in the 9th was impressive. Every fastball he threw was 98 or 99, and he threw a pitch that I couldn't tell if it was a little slider or a straight change, but it came in at about 83 and the hitters were nowhere near it. I'm very encouraged by Matt, but I'm not getting too excited yet. A few more good outings in a row though, and it may be time to put Matt in during bigger spots.

[southsider2k5]

Except Hershiser isn't here anymore.

 

Ah, I missed that... OK change the place to Baltimore and Leo Mazzone where they need pitchers badly and will overpay to do it.

 

With the wrong pitching coach, $450k a year is more than he's worth. Personally, even if he goes to the right situation, I think he's probably still too damn stubborn to listen. He's got that Texan in him (no offense folks) where he just thinks he's bigger than everyone else and he doesn't have to listen. He seems like he just runs around thinking "I struck out 20 in a game, I don't need no stinkin' coachin'".

 

If the last few years of injuries haven't woke up his attitude towards change, the guy is a lost cause anyways. Paging David Clyde...

[Balta1701]

If the last few years of injuries haven't woke up his attitude towards change, the guy is a lost cause anyways. Paging David Clyde...

I figured if he was ever going to figure it out...with his injuries from 2004, combined with the locker room disasters, the Steve Stone mess, and so forth, he'd finally have worked to fix his mechanics when he showed up in 2005. The moment he started struggling in like his 2nd or 3rd game back, he was back to the old Kid K, and back on the operating table.

[RockRaines]

I figured if he was ever going to figure it out...with his injuries from 2004, combined with the locker room disasters, the Steve Stone mess, and so forth, he'd finally have worked to fix his mechanics when he showed up in 2005. The moment he started struggling in like his 2nd or 3rd game back, he was back to the old Kid K, and back on the operating table.

You have to admit that Rothchild has basically done nothing with an extremely talented starting staff. His rehab is poor and his maintenance is even worse.

[southsider2k5]

You have to admit that Rothchild has basically done nothing with an extremely talented starting staff. His rehab is poor and his maintenance is even worse.

 

No doubt about that. I just wonder if it is his fault or the pitchers fault.

[qwerty]

The thing I see about Thorton is that guys just try to put the ball in play against him like they do against Jenks. They give up crappy hits and can be dinked to death. I also think that other guys are more patient against Jenks and Thorton because they know they may have trouble catching up to the heat.

 

I think Thorton and Jenks have better pitches than just the fastball but being a reliever they to do have the luxury to establish different pitches and find out what is working. They have to make good pitches from the get go.

 

In the World Series extra inning game, Jenks was throwing a ton of sliders. In the 9th inning though you do not want to be beat on a slider if your fastball is a better pitch. Jenks got comfortable with the curve last night and made Crosby look like a fool.

 

Both of these guys are converted front line starters with 3 major league pitches. Location is all they need to be a devastating duo.

 

[fathom]

I'd be willing to bet that Wood ends up in Texas, Houston, or with the Yankees if he's available this offseason.

[RockRaines]

No doubt about that. I just wonder if it is his fault or the pitchers fault.

Good question. And heres my thoughts on that. Mark Prior has an undisclosed injury really, and didnt have surgery, and should have been rehabbing this whole time, extended ST, some Rookie Games, and then making his way to the bigs. Where is the guy? He is finally making a start this weekend, what the hell has he been doing this whole time? Kerry Wood has had basically the same issues with his arm, mechanics etc since he made it to the bigs, how long does it take for someone to address these issues. And if he tried to change them, why didnt Wood listen? Does he WANT to have surgery every other year?

 

LaTroy Hawkins

John Koronka

Sergio Mitre

etc etc.

[southsider2k5]

Good question. And heres my thoughts on that. Mark Prior has an undisclosed injury really, and didnt have surgery, and should have been rehabbing this whole time, extended ST, some Rookie Games, and then making his way to the bigs. Where is the guy? He is finally making a start this weekend, what the hell has he been doing this whole time? Kerry Wood has had basically the same issues with his arm, mechanics etc since he made it to the bigs, how long does it take for someone to address these issues. And if he tried to change them, why didnt Wood listen? Does he WANT to have surgery every other year?

 

LaTroy Hawkins

John Koronka

Sergio Mitre

etc etc.

 

Some guys just think they know more than anyone else. Esteban Loiaza is a great example. He spent years not listening to coaching, until it got so bad he was only offered minor league deals. He spent about year listening to Coop, and it was the best year of his life. Then he fell right back into his bad habits and is mediocre again. Wood could very well fit into this category, who knows. I am sure when he leaves the Cubs, they will do the crucifiction job on him, much like they did to Sammy and Grace.

[RockRaines]

Some guys just think they know more than anyone else. Esteban Loiaza is a great example. He spent years not listening to coaching, until it got so bad he was only offered minor league deals. He spent about year listening to Coop, and it was the best year of his life. Then he fell right back into his bad habits and is mediocre again. Wood could very well fit into this category, who knows. I am sure when he leaves the Cubs, they will do the crucifiction job on him, much like they did to Sammy and Grace.

Oh, there will be a full page ad of his dissapointments.

[tonyho7476]

Good question. And heres my thoughts on that. Mark Prior has an undisclosed injury really, and didnt have surgery, and should have been rehabbing this whole time, extended ST, some Rookie Games, and then making his way to the bigs. Where is the guy? He is finally making a start this weekend, what the hell has he been doing this whole time?

 

Since I don't really listen to terrestrial radio anymore, I did not hear this first hand, but I heard that Rothchild, the cubs pitching coach, was on Mike North, saying that nothing is wrong with Prior, and it sounds like Prior is just being over-cautious. Did anyone here this interview? What was said? And how was that for a run-on sentence?!?

[Flash Tizzle]

His windup and motion are really smooth and easy and then he brings some 97 mph heat. If this guy can learn to throw a changeup with that same motion & delivery, game over.

 

And if not, we still have the big dude to come in and throw gas from the right side

Observing Thornton yesterday, his delivery dramatically slowed down while throwing offspeed pitches. This is the first problem to overcome, which is entirely mental.

 

Cheat and CWS are correct in assessing his slider as rather flat. IMO, it's not entirely necessary for him to have an explosive, biting secondary pitch. Even at his current stature as a 80% fastball, 20% slider pitcher, you throw it for a strike it's another thought for hitters. Important factor is repeating his delivery.

 

I'll cite the slider he threw to Jacque Jones on Saturday. Not that it would have mattered much--as Jones is pathetic against LHP--but it was the best he's thrown this year. It's encouraging for two reasons: one, he wasn't fearful of throwing it to a lefthander; and second, it buckled Jones.

 

BTW, if Thornton ever developed a halfway decent changeup to compliment a slider and a 97mph fastball, I'd stretch him for the rotation. Although that's merely a pipedream now.....

[elrockinMT]

He got claimed off waivers by the Cubs, he's pretty much just a bench warmer, in fact he wasn't even on the active list for the Sox series, which is why you didn't see him at all.

 

 

I didn't go through all the POSTS, but Borchard is with the Marlins now.