Greg Hibbard Posted May 23, 2006 Share Posted May 23, 2006 His stats are not good AT ALL. He's had four quality starts this season, and three of them were against KC or Tampa Bay. The other one was at Seattle against ANOTHER futile team. Against average or above average teams his ERA is probably well over 10. His WHIP is atrocious at 1.53. That's worse than Marte was last year! His BAA is .325. .325!!!! His ERA is above 6, even with the good starts. He's had 9 starts now. This is more than 1/4 into the season. I realize a lot of fans and people within the organization are unwilling to yank an important cog in the World Series run from last year, but something is way, way off, moreso than it's ever been perhaps in his career. I would give him two more starts to straighten it out, but then I think a change might have to be made if noticeable improvement isn't happening. I understand the dead arm argument, but we're going on two months of that. Or can we live with a fifth starter not having his best stuff, especially because come playoff time we'll only need four? Where do you folks stand with this? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jimbo's Drinker Posted May 23, 2006 Share Posted May 23, 2006 It's too the point where I don't want to worry about it until his next go around. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nitetrain8601 Posted May 23, 2006 Share Posted May 23, 2006 I think you're overreacting. 1 pitcher out of 5. Tell me who else in the league comes close to our pitching. The Tigers? They have guys who are known to fade away in the 2nd half. As long as he keeps us in the game, I don't give a crap. He gave up 4 runs last night. There's tons of teams who would take 4 runs out of their #5 starter anyday. Hell, they'd take that out of their #3 in the case of the Yankees and Bosox. I'm not worried about Garland. He's just got to mix in his Sinker in more with his 2seamer. I'm sure Coop and Ozzie will tell him that or have told him that after the game. Once he does, he'll be very good once again. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greg Hibbard Posted May 23, 2006 Author Share Posted May 23, 2006 Nitetrain, just because we have 4 other good starters does not mean we need to accept utter crap from our fifth starter, especially when we have another guy capable of starting in the bullpen and Garland has only put up good numbers in ONE year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RockRaines Posted May 23, 2006 Share Posted May 23, 2006 QUOTE(Greg Hibbard @ May 23, 2006 -> 10:49 AM) Nitetrain, just because we have 4 other good starters does not mean we need to accept utter crap from our fifth starter, especially when we have another guy capable of starting in the bullpen and Garland has only put up good numbers in ONE year. Utter Crap? Wow you have a short memory. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nitetrain8601 Posted May 23, 2006 Share Posted May 23, 2006 QUOTE(Greg Hibbard @ May 23, 2006 -> 09:49 AM) Nitetrain, just because we have 4 other good starters does not mean we need to accept utter crap from our fifth starter, especially when we have another guy capable of starting in the bullpen and Garland has only put up good numbers in ONE year. I wouldn't call it utter crap. Is he near his performances from last year? No, not at this moment, but if you look around the league, he's doing just about average. I don't see a problem with that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Finkelstein Posted May 23, 2006 Share Posted May 23, 2006 I really think that Jon pitches better when he has AJ behind the plate. I don't know if it is a confidence thing or not, but I hope that Ozzie keeps AJ with him as much as possible. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nitetrain8601 Posted May 23, 2006 Share Posted May 23, 2006 QUOTE(Finkelstein @ May 23, 2006 -> 09:52 AM) I really think that Jon pitches better when he has AJ behind the plate. I don't know if it is a confidence thing or not, but I hope that Ozzie keeps AJ with him as much as possible. I do too, but I guess Ozzie for some reason loves Widger behind there when Garland is throwing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted May 23, 2006 Share Posted May 23, 2006 QUOTE(nitetrain8601 @ May 23, 2006 -> 10:53 AM) I do too, but I guess Ozzie for some reason loves Widger behind there when Garland is throwing. Tonight it had more to do with Barry Zito being on the mound than anything else... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RockRaines Posted May 23, 2006 Share Posted May 23, 2006 QUOTE(nitetrain8601 @ May 23, 2006 -> 10:52 AM) I wouldn't call it utter crap. Is he near his performances from last year? No, not at this moment, but if you look around the league, he's doing just about average. I don't see a problem with that. Apparently these people forget how it was 2 years ago. Rauch, Munoz, Grilli, etc etc etc. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G&T Posted May 23, 2006 Share Posted May 23, 2006 QUOTE(Greg Hibbard @ May 23, 2006 -> 10:49 AM) Nitetrain, just because we have 4 other good starters does not mean we need to accept utter crap from our fifth starter, especially when we have another guy capable of starting in the bullpen and Garland has only put up good numbers in ONE year. ^^^ Well said, I'm sick of the argument that the fifth starter doesn't have to be good. What happens when other guys go into funks? Other teams aren't paying what the Sox are paying for a fifth starter. I've said it before, Garland just might pitch himself into a trade after this season, but I'd much rather he pitch inside with confidence and win some games. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RockRaines Posted May 23, 2006 Share Posted May 23, 2006 QUOTE(southsider2k5 @ May 23, 2006 -> 10:54 AM) Tonight it had more to do with Barry Zito being on the mound than anything else...Also Jon follows MB, FG, and the count, and more often than not its time to rest the regulars after several wins. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greg Hibbard Posted May 23, 2006 Author Share Posted May 23, 2006 QUOTE(RockRaines @ May 23, 2006 -> 09:51 AM) Utter Crap? Wow you have a short memory. 3-2, 6.12 ERA, 1.53 WHIP, .325 BAA. This is what I'm describing as utter crap. WTF would you call it? Last year has nothing to do with it. Beating three AAAA teams isn't something to laud him for.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nitetrain8601 Posted May 23, 2006 Share Posted May 23, 2006 QUOTE(RockRaines @ May 23, 2006 -> 09:54 AM) Apparently these people forget how it was 2 years ago. Rauch, Munoz, Grilli, etc etc etc. I guess so. I swear, we have the 2nd best record in baseball and people are ready to jump off a cliff after a game we won. I don't get it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RockRaines Posted May 23, 2006 Share Posted May 23, 2006 QUOTE(Greg Hibbard @ May 23, 2006 -> 10:56 AM) 3-2, 6.12 ERA, 1.53 WHIP, .325 BAA. This is what I'm describing as utter crap. WTF would you call it? Last year has nothing to do with it. Beating three AAAA teams isn't something to laud him for.... I would much rather call your posts and topic utter crap before Garland. Without getting sqeezed last night, the score may have been much different. Come back at the end of the year, and if Garland has an ERA over 5 come talk to me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nitetrain8601 Posted May 23, 2006 Share Posted May 23, 2006 QUOTE(Greg Hibbard @ May 23, 2006 -> 09:56 AM) 3-2, 6.12 ERA, 1.53 WHIP, .325 BAA. This is what I'm describing as utter crap. WTF would you call it? Last year has nothing to do with it. Beating three AAAA teams isn't something to laud him for.... You said his WHIP is worse than Marte's. Well that would be because Marte's a reliever and Garland's a starter. Usually, if your name isn't Johan, your WHIP is going to be worse than a reliever. BAA isn't good. ERA also isn't the best stat. 3-2 shows me that he's still winning. I'm not concerned. As long as he keeps us in games against the crappy teams, that's all I ask for. I'll let Contreras do the dominating. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greg Hibbard Posted May 23, 2006 Author Share Posted May 23, 2006 I guess you're right guys. I should look at the bright side. I mean, at least we have a guy who can beat the three last place teams in each of the American League divisions. Looking forward to that next win at Pittsburgh.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3E8 Posted May 23, 2006 Share Posted May 23, 2006 Garland's batting average against of balls in play last year was .253 which was good for sixth lowest in the American League. Combine this with his low strikeout rate, and I say that Garland's 2005 was the exception, not the norm. Couldn't have worked out any better for him, as he really cashed in on a fortunate season. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T R U Posted May 23, 2006 Share Posted May 23, 2006 QUOTE(Greg Hibbard @ May 23, 2006 -> 10:49 AM) Nitetrain, just because we have 4 other good starters does not mean we need to accept utter crap from our fifth starter, especially when we have another guy capable of starting in the bullpen and Garland has only put up good numbers in ONE year. Yeah since McCarthy and his 5.48 ERA are doin sooo much better than Garland Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greg Hibbard Posted May 23, 2006 Author Share Posted May 23, 2006 I got blasted at the beginning of this season for saying that 2005 was an OBVIOUS fluke, so I'll just shut up about that now and let the numbers speak for themselves the rest of the way. I'm really not sure what indications anyone has been given that Garland can even give up less than 5 or 6 runs against most competitive American League teams. Let me re-iterate: Garland has an ERA above 10 against teams not named TB, KC and Seattle. You know, teams we're likely to be facing in the playoffs... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fathom Posted May 23, 2006 Share Posted May 23, 2006 I posted this stat last night. Garland's already given up half the amount of homers he did last year, in nearly 25 pct of the innings he pitched (like 221 compared to 57). Garland has to get back to throwing his sinker. His four-seamer is good enough to be a good pitcher in the majors. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tonyho7476 Posted May 23, 2006 Share Posted May 23, 2006 QUOTE(Greg Hibbard @ May 23, 2006 -> 11:04 AM) I got blasted at the beginning of this season for saying that 2005 was an OBVIOUS fluke, so I'll just shut up about that now and let the numbers speak for themselves the rest of the way. I'm really not sure what indications anyone has been given that Garland can even give up less than 5 or 6 runs against most competitive American League teams. Let me re-iterate: Garland has an ERA above 10 against teams not named TB, KC and Seattle. You know, teams we're likely to be facing in the playoffs... Don't worry about the playoffs...Garland wouldn't even start. It would be Count, Buerhle, Freddy and Javy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greg Hibbard Posted May 23, 2006 Author Share Posted May 23, 2006 QUOTE(T R U @ May 23, 2006 -> 10:02 AM) Yeah since McCarthy and his 5.48 ERA are doin sooo much better than Garland McCarthy's WHIP is about .25 points lower than Garland... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nitetrain8601 Posted May 23, 2006 Share Posted May 23, 2006 QUOTE(Greg Hibbard @ May 23, 2006 -> 10:08 AM) McCarthy's WHIP is about .25 points lower than Garland... Which accounts for his ERA being a bit lower. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kalapse Posted May 23, 2006 Share Posted May 23, 2006 QUOTE(nitetrain8601 @ May 23, 2006 -> 10:58 AM) You said his WHIP is worse than Marte's. Well that would be because Marte's a reliever and Garland's a starter. Usually, if your name isn't Johan, your WHIP is going to be worse than a reliever. BAA isn't good. ERA also isn't the best stat. 3-2 shows me that he's still winning. I'm not concerned. As long as he keeps us in games against the crappy teams, that's all I ask for. I'll let Contreras do the dominating. I'm sorry this post confuses me, did you just say that the best way to evaluate Garland is by his record? So because the team is scoring runs for him when he goes out there and gives up 6 runs it's ok? Whatever you say. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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