nitetrain8601 Posted May 23, 2006 Share Posted May 23, 2006 QUOTE(Kalapse @ May 23, 2006 -> 10:13 AM) I'm sorry this post confuses me, did you just say that the best way to evaluate Garland is by his record? So because the team is scoring runs for him when he goes out there and gives up 6 runs it's ok? Whatever you say. No, I'm saying that while with all the b****ing and complaining, he still has a winning record and has at least 3 good games. I'll take that over going through the Jason Grilli's of the world. I admitted that his BAA is pretty bad. His WHIP is mediocre, but there are pitchers that have a lot worse ones this his. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kalapse Posted May 23, 2006 Share Posted May 23, 2006 QUOTE(nitetrain8601 @ May 23, 2006 -> 11:23 AM) No, I'm saying that while with all the b****ing and complaining, he still has a winning record and has at least 3 good games. I'll take that over going through the Jason Grilli's of the world. I admitted that his BAA is pretty bad. His WHIP is mediocre, but there are pitchers that have a lot worse ones this his. Garland is not getting payed 5th starter money and does not have the same expectations on him as a 5th starter. Just because we've had s***ty pitching in the past doesn't mean Garland can continue to get by with s*** performance after s*** performance but never lose because this team is capable of going out and putting up 6 runs for him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nitetrain8601 Posted May 23, 2006 Share Posted May 23, 2006 QUOTE(Kalapse @ May 23, 2006 -> 10:26 AM) Garland is not getting payed 5th starter money and does not have the same expectations on him as a 5th starter. Just because we've had s***ty pitching in the past doesn't mean Garland can continue to get by with s*** performance after s*** performance but never lose because this team is capable of going out and putting up 6 runs for him. If it ain't broke, don't fix it. I don't care how we win, as long as we win. Period. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T R U Posted May 23, 2006 Share Posted May 23, 2006 QUOTE(Greg Hibbard @ May 23, 2006 -> 11:08 AM) McCarthy's WHIP is about .25 points lower than Garland... and? his ERA is still in the mid 5's The only problem I see with Garland is that he is just getting hit around.. hes not walkin a bunch of people, he has just been giving up a crazy amount of hits which I assume will start to go down here in the coming outings.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greg Hibbard Posted May 23, 2006 Author Share Posted May 23, 2006 QUOTE(T R U @ May 23, 2006 -> 10:33 AM) and? his ERA is still in the mid 5's The only problem I see with Garland is that he is just getting hit around.. hes not walkin a bunch of people, he has just been giving up a crazy amount of hits which I assume will start to go down here in the coming outings.. Again, you assume this based on WHAT? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nitetrain8601 Posted May 23, 2006 Share Posted May 23, 2006 QUOTE(Greg Hibbard @ May 23, 2006 -> 10:36 AM) Again, you assume this based on WHAT? That his pitching coach is Don Cooper. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kalapse Posted May 23, 2006 Share Posted May 23, 2006 QUOTE(nitetrain8601 @ May 23, 2006 -> 11:28 AM) If it ain't broke, don't fix it. I don't care how we win, as long as we win. Period. See the thing is when he's going out there every 5th day and allowing 4 to 8 runs eventually the offense is not going to come through for him. You can't just continue to go with the guy and his s*** pitching just because the offense is picking him up every damn time, he's really not putting the team in a very good position to win and once the offense starts slumping he's going to be racking up major losses. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nitetrain8601 Posted May 23, 2006 Share Posted May 23, 2006 QUOTE(Kalapse @ May 23, 2006 -> 10:42 AM) See the thing is when he's going out there every 5th day and allowing 4 to 8 runs eventually the offense is not going to come through for him. You can't just continue to go with the guy and his s*** pitching just because the offense is picking him up every damn time, he's really not putting the team in a very good position to win and once the offense starts slumping he's going to be racking up major losses. What do you suggest? Go out and get another Ace and pay heavily for him even though the guy probably won't even start in the playoffs? I'd like to hear your plan of action. Jon at least treads water. That's all I ask. Keep us in ballgames. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kalapse Posted May 23, 2006 Share Posted May 23, 2006 QUOTE(nitetrain8601 @ May 23, 2006 -> 11:47 AM) What do you suggest? Go out and get another Ace and pay heavily for him even though the guy probably won't even start in the playoffs? I'd like to hear your plan of action. Jon at least treads water. That's all I ask. Keep us in ballgames. You're obviously missing the point all I'm really saying is that it is ok to be worried about him because he is not treading water. You can continue to ignore my posts and say the same damn thing over and over again if you'd like but I'm pretty much done with it. For the last time, he's not keeping the team in games, he's giving up a s*** load of hits and runs in most of his outings and once the offense starts to slump, which is always does, he'll begin to lose games (since you care so damn much about W/L record). You can only ignore his poor pitching for so long. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harry Chappas Posted May 23, 2006 Share Posted May 23, 2006 QUOTE(nitetrain8601 @ May 23, 2006 -> 11:47 AM) What do you suggest? Go out and get another Ace and pay heavily for him even though the guy probably won't even start in the playoffs? I'd like to hear your plan of action. Jon at least treads water. That's all I ask. Keep us in ballgames. I agree with this but he is being paid like a number two starter. Going into this season I had always defended him but at $9M a year he better have an ERA under 4 and a WHIP below 1.4. He needs to perform at the level we are paying him not as a "number 5 starter" that is BS. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greg Hibbard Posted May 23, 2006 Author Share Posted May 23, 2006 he is 44th out of 50 starting pitchers in AL ERA (Qualified pitchers only) he is 95th out of 101 starting pitchers in MLB ERA (Qualified pitchers only) Unacceptable on every level, considering his salary. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest JimH Posted May 23, 2006 Share Posted May 23, 2006 Garland needs to do a couple of things .... - Use the sinker more because it looks like he's overthrowing and his pitches are flat, and up in the zone. - Pitch inside one heck of a lot more than he's done thus far. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WCSox Posted May 23, 2006 Share Posted May 23, 2006 QUOTE(3E8 @ May 23, 2006 -> 09:01 AM) I say that Garland's 2005 was the exception, not the norm. Couldn't have worked out any better for him, as he really cashed in on a fortunate season. I agree, although I'm not sure that he'll be putting up his '04 numbers throughout the duration of his contract either. If he gets his ERA down below 5 by the end of September, I'd like to see him given another year. If not, KW should consider dealing him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T R U Posted May 23, 2006 Share Posted May 23, 2006 QUOTE(Greg Hibbard @ May 23, 2006 -> 11:36 AM) Again, you assume this based on WHAT? I assume it based on my opinion of Garland and that he has been a solid pitcher his entire career Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kapkomet Posted May 23, 2006 Share Posted May 23, 2006 Garland will come around. JimH is right on, IMO, in that he needs to get that slider going and pitch inside. It's amazing what an off-balanced hitter will look like and then Garland will start showing his 2005 form. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Ginger Kid Posted May 23, 2006 Share Posted May 23, 2006 He got screwed by Eddings last night and still hung in there. He didn't have much choice but to throw it right over the plate to Frank on that first homer after the count went to 3-1. I thought he was painting the corners really well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted May 23, 2006 Share Posted May 23, 2006 Just to speak in terms of yesterday...4 runs in 6.1 innings is not a terrible outing. It's not a great outing, but it's also not terrible. He also had a better than average, 7 inning, 2 run outing last time out against Tampa. We would not be having this discussion right now had he had some balls against Minnesota. Jon has almost used up his quota of terrible games this season. He's had 2 tolerable games in a row. He gets shelled 1 or 2 more times, then it's time to start thinking about giving Brandon some more starts. He keeps his next few outings at 4 runs and below over 6-7 innings, and he'll be doing his job. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NYSox35 Posted May 23, 2006 Share Posted May 23, 2006 QUOTE(JimH @ May 23, 2006 -> 12:06 PM) Garland needs to do a couple of things .... - Use the sinker more because it looks like he's overthrowing and his pitches are flat, and up in the zone. - Pitch inside one heck of a lot more than he's done thus far. I agree, you are dead on. Jon's always been at his best when he's keeping the ball down and/or in. I am not ready to give up on him just yet. Granted, it's been an awful start, but he has the talent to make things work and I'm sure Coop will get him straightened out soon. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RockRaines Posted May 23, 2006 Share Posted May 23, 2006 QUOTE(Greg Hibbard @ May 23, 2006 -> 11:59 AM) he is 44th out of 50 starting pitchers in AL ERA (Qualified pitchers only) he is 95th out of 101 starting pitchers in MLB ERA (Qualified pitchers only) Unacceptable on every level, considering his salary. Blah blah blah. Seriously, come talk to me at the end of the season if this is stil the case. Other pitchers performing badly at this point. D Willis 5.12 ERA A Pettite 5.03 L Hernandez 5.51 R Johnson 5.62 S Elarton 4.71 J Lieber 5.81 E Bedard 5.08 J Marquis 5.08 J Bondermann-who everyone is calling an Ace now, 4.66 D Davis 5.14 J westbrook 4.98 j Blanton 6.24 M Morris 5.43 E Santana 5.02 P byrd 5.92 B Radke 7.20 King Felix 5.84 J Weaver 7.30 C Silva 8.44 M Clement 5.36 El Duque (NL) 6.11 O Perez 6.04 D Cabrera 5.23 G Chacin 5.31 B Chen 8.08 M Redman 6.88 O Perez LAD 6.97 on and on and on. I will bet on it that most of these pitchers will not have these numbers by the end of the season. And Jon's will improve too. Jump off the cliff all you want, you will look follish when you are trying to climb back up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kevo880 Posted May 23, 2006 Share Posted May 23, 2006 if bmac were in the rotation all season i doubt his era would be in the 5's. one or two bad outings in the bullpen and your era sky rockets and it's tough to get back down. garland logs so many innings if he had four or five strait quality starts that his era could drop back down to decent. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NYSox35 Posted May 23, 2006 Share Posted May 23, 2006 QUOTE(RockRaines @ May 23, 2006 -> 12:49 PM) Blah blah blah. Seriously, come talk to me at the end of the season if this is stil the case. Other pitchers performing badly at this point. R Johnson 5.62 Jump off the cliff all you want, you will look follish when you are trying to climb back up. Exactly...out here in NY, Yankee fans have a valid reason to be ready to jump off the cliff if RJ doesn't turn it around soon considering the shape of the rest of their staff (Only Moose is producing)... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kevo880 Posted May 23, 2006 Share Posted May 23, 2006 QUOTE(RockRaines @ May 23, 2006 -> 12:49 PM) Blah blah blah. Seriously, come talk to me at the end of the season if this is stil the case. Other pitchers performing badly at this point. D Willis 5.12 ERA A Pettite 5.03 L Hernandez 5.51 R Johnson 5.62 S Elarton 4.71 J Lieber 5.81 E Bedard 5.08 J Marquis 5.08 J Bondermann-who everyone is calling an Ace now, 4.66 D Davis 5.14 J westbrook 4.98 j Blanton 6.24 M Morris 5.43 E Santana 5.02 P byrd 5.92 B Radke 7.20 King Felix 5.84 J Weaver 7.30 C Silva 8.44 M Clement 5.36 El Duque (NL) 6.11 O Perez 6.04 D Cabrera 5.23 G Chacin 5.31 B Chen 8.08 M Redman 6.88 O Perez LAD 6.97 on and on and on. I will bet on it that most of these pitchers will not have these numbers by the end of the season. And Jon's will improve too. Jump off the cliff all you want, you will look follish when you are trying to climb back up. So just because other pichers are doing bad we shouldn't worry about Garland? Most of those pitchers on the list are establiched winners throughout their careers. GARLAND HAD ONE GOOD SEASON! He's proving right now he doesn't deserve his contract. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RockRaines Posted May 23, 2006 Share Posted May 23, 2006 QUOTE(kevo880 @ May 23, 2006 -> 12:53 PM) So just because other pichers are doing bad we shouldn't worry about Garland? Most of those pitchers on the list are establiched winners throughout their careers. GARLAND HAD ONE GOOD SEASON! He's proving right now he doesn't deserve his contract. You are proving to be a bandwagon jumper, congrats. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kalapse Posted May 23, 2006 Share Posted May 23, 2006 QUOTE(RockRaines @ May 23, 2006 -> 12:55 PM) You are proving to be a bandwagon jumper, congrats. I'm unimpressed with Garland and am quite frustrated with his performance thus far this year. Just wondering if you consider me to be a bandwagon jumper? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kevo880 Posted May 23, 2006 Share Posted May 23, 2006 QUOTE(RockRaines @ May 23, 2006 -> 12:55 PM) You are proving to be a bandwagon jumper, congrats. Oh really, thanks a lot since I've been a sox fan my whole life in a house full of cubs fans. way to be a cool guy and try to insult someone by reading one post that disagrees with you Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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