Garland

[Balta1701]

if bmac were in the rotation all season i doubt his era would be in the 5's. one or two bad outings in the bullpen and your era sky rockets and it's tough to get back down. garland logs so many innings if he had four or five strait quality starts that his era could drop back down to decent.

You're right, if BMac were in the rotation, his ERA would probably be in the 4's. But there's a lot of problems with that. First of all, if Kerry Wood and Mark Prior were in the Cubs rotation, their ERA might be in the 3's. But they're not there. Why? Overuse at too young of an age, combined with s***ty mechanics. And we might have an even worse bullpen than we have now.

 

Brandon's gonna wind up with somewhere over 100 innings this year. He's also damn young, and he has a chance to be damn good for damn long time. Let Brandon get adapted to major league pitching in the pen, keep his innings down, and just wait for the 20 win seasons to start rolling in. There's no reason to rush the kid yet.

[kevo880]

hey rock sorry i dont have 8,000 posts bro. i really wish this could be my life so i wouldnt be a bandwagon jumper

 

oh yeah i was at a playoff game in 2000 and have gone to games frequently since i was a kid...you were almost right though

[Greg Hibbard]

I assume it based on my opinion of Garland and that he has been a solid pitcher his entire career

 

Is your definition of solid "mediocre"? I'm honestly confused.

 

Garland's 2004 rank out of 40 starting pitchers with at least 27 starts:

ERA - 27/40

Wins - tied with 6 others for 19/40

WHIP - 19/40

 

2003:

ERA: 27/40

Wins - tied with 5 others for 26/40

WHIP - 28/40

 

Prior to 2005, about the only thing Jon was consistently good at was giving us innings and getting about 12 wins a year, which is not bad for a 3rd or 4th starter on a middling team. His ERA and WHIP were well below average his entire career up to last year. I'm really not sure how anyone could look at his career numbers and say they've been "solid".

 

Mark Buehrle's had a "solid" career...Garland's had a mediocre career in my opinion.

[kevo880]

You're right, if BMac were in the rotation, his ERA would probably be in the 4's. But there's a lot of problems with that. First of all, if Kerry Wood and Mark Prior were in the Cubs rotation, their ERA might be in the 3's. But they're not there. Why? Overuse at too young of an age, combined with s***ty mechanics. And we might have an even worse bullpen than we have now.

 

Brandon's gonna wind up with somewhere over 100 innings this year. He's also damn young, and he has a chance to be damn good for damn long time. Let Brandon get adapted to major league pitching in the pen, keep his innings down, and just wait for the 20 win seasons to start rolling in. There's no reason to rush the kid yet.

 

No, i completely agree with you. I don't think bmac should be in the rotation yet, I was just arguing that someone said his era was almost as high as Garlands.

[RockRaines]

hey rock sorry i dont have 8,000 posts bro. i really wish this could be my life so i wouldnt be a bandwagon jumper

 

oh yeah i was at a playoff game in 2000 and have gone to games frequently since i was a kid...you were almost right though

apology accepted

[kevo880]

apology accepted

 

by the way i like your pic

[NYSox35]

Is your definition of solid "mediocre"? I'm honestly confused.

 

Garland's 2004 rank out of 40 starting pitchers with at least 27 starts:

ERA - 27/40

Wins - tied with 6 others for 19/40

WHIP - 19/40

 

2003:

ERA: 27/40

Wins - tied with 5 others for 26/40

WHIP - 28/40

 

Prior to 2005, about the only thing Jon was consistently good at was giving us innings and getting about 12 wins a year, which is not bad for a 3rd or 4th starter on a middling team. His ERA and WHIP were well below average his entire career up to last year. I'm really not sure how anyone could look at his career numbers and say they've been "solid".

 

Mark Buehrle's had a "solid" career...Garland's had a mediocre career in my opinion.

 

I would call Buehrle's career more than solid. I agree with the guy saying Garland has been "solid." Up until recently, he's been a 4th starter. As you said, he's logged innings and given us the opportunity to win games. He's done this at a cheap rate, too.

 

Now he's making some serious money and the expectations are higher b/c of last year. That is why the numbers now are so upsetting/frustrating.

[Controlled Chaos]

Someone just needs to jam his knuckle a little bit before each start.

 

I'm not worried about Gar.

[Gregory Pratt]

Yeah since McCarthy and his 5.48 ERA are doin sooo much better than Garland

 

I'm not sure if anyone pointed this out, but quite a few of B-Mac's Earned Runs came when Ozzie pulled him off with runners on and Boone Logan (I believe it was Boone) let everyone go, thus putting the runs on B-Mac's shoulders.

[RockRaines]

I'm unimpressed with Garland and am quite frustrated with his performance thus far this year. Just wondering if you consider me to be a bandwagon jumper?

Ah, I think you know what I think of you.....

 

Its easy to get frustrated with any player who does not produce right out of the box. Especially after having a breakout year and a successful playoff run. Fact is, all signs point to him improving his performance. The guy is young, just figured himself out, and has succeeded over the course of a season and a playoff run. I thought he looked pretty good last night, he was painting the corners and not getting the calls, which led to 2 runs which prob wouldnt have happened otherwise. Im not going to bury him based on his start, and I feel that he will improve, just like BA will, just like Freddy has done, and just like many players have in the past few years.

[Balance]

From what I've heard Hawk and DJ say about Garland, much of his success last year came from his ability to pitch inside. Lately, I haven't seen him try to get people out inside. I wonder if Cooper agrees with Hawk and DJ.

[RockRaines]

From what I've heard Hawk and DJ say about Garland, much of his success last year came from his ability to pitch inside. Lately, I haven't seen him try to get people out inside. I wonder if Cooper agrees with Hawk and DJ.

Last night he began to pitch inside a little more, which made me think he was gaining some confidence. Of course then when he went back to the outside corner, he wasnt getting the calls.

[kevo880]

Ah, I think you know what I think of you.....

 

Its easy to get frustrated with any player who does not produce right out of the box. Especially after having a breakout year and a successful playoff run. Fact is, all signs point to him improving his performance. The guy is young, just figured himself out, and has succeeded over the course of a season and a playoff run. I thought he looked pretty good last night, he was painting the corners and not getting the calls, which led to 2 runs which prob wouldnt have happened otherwise. Im not going to bury him based on his start, and I feel that he will improve, just like BA will, just like Freddy has done, and just like many players have in the past few years.

 

Obviously garland and anderson are going to get better...it'd be pretty hard for their numbers to get any worse. I didn't get to see the game last night, my mlb.tv was skipping and after the big hurt at bat i turned it off because i was getting annoyed so i just listened to it, however i hope it's true that garland was looking better. is it the start of his turn around?

 

By the way i'm not burrying him, i'm simply saying he's not earning his $9 mill this year which is obvious

[RockRaines]

By the way i'm not burrying him, i'm simply saying he's not earning his $9 mill this year which is obvious

Do many pitchers earn their salary? Its easily the most overpaid position in sports. Of course comparative to what some pitchers (AJ Burnett, etc) are starting to get these days, his salary is somewhat a bargain.

[Kalapse]

Do many pitchers earn their salary? Its easily the most overpaid position in sports. Of course comparative to what some pitchers (AJ Burnett, etc) are starting to get these days, his salary is somewhat a bargain.

It is in no way, shape or form "a bargain" I really don't give a s*** how much Burnett's overpaid ass is making that doesn't mean Garland is fairly paid for his production.

[RockRaines]

It is in no way, shape or form "a bargain" I really don't give a s*** how much Burnett's overpaid ass is making that doesn't mean Garland is fairly paid for his production.

If Garland hit the FA market after last year, or even this year, how much do you think he would make?

[kevo880]

Do many pitchers earn their salary? Its easily the most overpaid position in sports. Of course comparative to what some pitchers (AJ Burnett, etc) are starting to get these days, his salary is somewhat a bargain.

 

He's the only pitcher on the sox staff that i consider overpayed. his salary's a bargain if he does what he did last year but if he stays as a .500 pitcher or continues what he's doing then it is a waste of money.

I get the feeling you think that I think he will continue this all season, which isn't the case. I'm just saying he better get out of his funk and start earning his paycheck...which isn't a bargain esp. since it goes up the next 2 seasons conseiderably.

[Kalapse]

If Garland hit the FA market after last year, or even this year, how much do you think he would make?

Wait, since most teams would have overpaid for him after his only real good career year that means he's earning his money?

[kevo880]

If Garland hit the FA market after last year, or even this year, how much do you think he would make?

 

Well that's two diff questions. If it were last year i really think he got what he deserved. It's a always been said he wants to go the the west coast. if that were the case why would he stay here for less money? He took it because he's loyal and he knew it was a fat contract.

If he were to hit the market after this season a lot would depend on what he does the rest of the season. He could play the whole first half like s*** like he's doing now but if he ends the season, say his last 10-15 starts, with an era in the 3's like last year he probably would get the same type of contract he just received.

 

what do you think about that rock

[Soxbadger]

I love the:

 

"Of the 40 pitchers with 27 starts" stat.

 

When you look at the stat it shows just how valuable Garland is. Of all the teams in baseball, only 40 starting pitchers (less than 2 per team) started 27 games. Of all of them, Garland was in the top 30 (1 per team), meaning that on any other staff Garland was on average the top 1 or 2 pitcher, but generally no worse than a 3.

 

This reminds me of the "Vazquez should be traded" before the season started, and all the other "great" ideas that are based on rushing B-Mac into the rotation. B-Mac may be good, but he will unlikely ever be an Ace, so therefore there is no reason to press him into the starting rotation.

 

Right now the Sox have the most talented team when Garland is starting and B-Mac is in the pen. By moving Garland you would severely weaken the pen, and possibly (in my opinion likely) weaken the starting rotation. If everyone here is worried about winning championships, then you have to keep both Garland and B-Mac, unless Garland was giving you a piece to win this year.

 

The grass isnt always greener.

[G&T]

From what I've heard Hawk and DJ say about Garland, much of his success last year came from his ability to pitch inside. Lately, I haven't seen him try to get people out inside. I wonder if Cooper agrees with Hawk and DJ.

 

Dr. Cooper was on with North this morning and he said he's looking for Jon to throw more breaking balls inside. He did that last year with no problem but now he's doesn't have the same confidence.

 

Right now the Sox have the most talented team when Garland is starting and B-Mac is in the pen. By moving Garland you would severely weaken the pen, and possibly (in my opinion likely) weaken the starting rotation. If everyone here is worried about winning championships, then you have to keep both Garland and B-Mac, unless Garland was giving you a piece to win this year.

 

The grass isnt always greener.

 

I think most everyone agrees with you, I know I do, but that doesn't allow Garland to underperform. This guy has the ability and we want to see it. Can't make excuses.

[RockRaines]

Well that's two diff questions. If it were last year i really think he got what he deserved. It's a always been said he wants to go the the west coast. if that were the case why would he stay here for less money? He took it because he's loyal and he knew it was a fat contract.

If he were to hit the market after this season a lot would depend on what he does the rest of the season. He could play the whole first half like s*** like he's doing now but if he ends the season, say his last 10-15 starts, with an era in the 3's like last year he probably would get the same type of contract he just received.

 

what do you think about that rock

I think that on the FA market he would have fetched upwards of 10 million a year, and if he posted a good year this year, even more.

 

Pitchers with inflated salaries:

 

Randy Wolf 9.125 mill

Mike Hampton 14.475 mill

Matt Clement 9.825

Kerry Wood 12 mill

Eric Milton 9.8

Troy Percival 6

Pettite 16.5 mil

ahh, i got tired, but you can see how much pitchers are making. I would say in this last weak FA market Garland would have fetched a little more than what he signed for. And on our roster, he is the lowest paid starting pitcher, assuming that MB will get more money in his extension.

 

Regardless of his contract, I fully expect him to improve, and he really should considering the footsteps of BMAC on his ass.

Edited May 23, 2006 by RockRaines

[southsider2k5]

Ah, I think you know what I think of you.....

 

This doesn't involve a private screening of Brokeback Mountian does it?

[RockRaines]

This doesn't involve a private screening of Brokeback Mountian does it?

with The Notebook

[whitem0nkey]

Im real glad we have cooper, i feel real confident in his talent. and that makes me feel that Jon will turn it around.

 

Also i don’t think we should be booing him when he is struggling, cause i don’t see it helping at all. Jon knows how bad he has performed. he has to be feeling like he is letting his teammates down. i understand that he is a pro and makes a lot of money so he should be able to take it from fans who paid for a ticket. but i have seen a lot of athletes get booed out of town and are good again with a fresh start.

 

go sox!

Edited May 23, 2006 by whitem0nkey