YASNY Posted May 24, 2006 Share Posted May 24, 2006 I've seen numerous posts which have said the bunt was a "Great call" or similar favorable expressions. The situation was that there were runners on base, two outs and the Sox in need of a run. Was this not a similar situation to the bunt by Neifi Perez that ended a game for the Cubs last week? Other than the fact that Ozuna executed his successfully and Perez didn't, why was Ozuna's decision to bunt a great idea and Perez's decision to bunt was ripped for being such a dumb idea? I'm seriously interested in seeing the reasoning behind everone's thinking on this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beautox Posted May 24, 2006 Share Posted May 24, 2006 i thought Nefi's was to just tie the game up? am i wrong. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YASNY Posted May 24, 2006 Author Share Posted May 24, 2006 QUOTE(beautox @ May 24, 2006 -> 04:05 AM) i thought Nefi's was to just tie the game up? am i wrong. I think so, but the Cubs needed that run and the Sox needed the one they scored. In both situations a run was crucial. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beautox Posted May 24, 2006 Share Posted May 24, 2006 well then wouldn't that make it a different situation? if ozuna doesn't get the bunt down the white sox go to the top of the 11th and get a chance to bat around again with Iguchi, Thome and Konerko. If Nefi doesn't get the bunt down(which he didn't) the cubs loose 4-3 in the bottom of the 9th Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3RDBASE Posted May 24, 2006 Share Posted May 24, 2006 Sounds to me like a different situation all together...and Ripping Nefi's was right on...tie game vs down by one is waaaay different any way you look at it. I believe one it is more crucial than the other..but If Pablo didnt get it down..there would still be peeps giving him s*** if we didn' t end up winning as we did. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YASNY Posted May 24, 2006 Author Share Posted May 24, 2006 I think you guys are stretching to find a justification. In either case, the game was on the line one way or the other. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Felix Posted May 24, 2006 Share Posted May 24, 2006 If he didn't beat it out, he would have been yelled at endlessly on the boards for not swinging the bat. Luckily, it worked out, and that doesn't have to happen Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Al Lopez's Ghost Posted May 24, 2006 Share Posted May 24, 2006 If I recall correctly, Perez' bunt came with runners on first and third and Cubs two runs down. His bunt if successful would not have tied the score, it would have brought the Cubs to within one run and left men on first and second. But if he swings and hits a gapper, maybe he ties it up with his at bat. This is completely different from Pablo's case, because worst case scenario the Sox are still playing in the top of the 11th. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chisox72 Posted May 24, 2006 Share Posted May 24, 2006 QUOTE(YASNY @ May 24, 2006 -> 03:44 AM) I've seen numerous posts which have said the bunt was a "Great call" or similar favorable expressions. The situation was that there were runners on base, two outs and the Sox in need of a run. Was this not a similar situation to the bunt by Neifi Perez that ended a game for the Cubs last week? Other than the fact that Ozuna executed his successfully and Perez didn't, why was Ozuna's decision to bunt a great idea and Perez's decision to bunt was ripped for being such a dumb idea? I'm seriously interested in seeing the reasoning behind everone's thinking on this. The Cubs weren't down by one, they were down by two with runners on first and third. Neifi's bunt was a retarded move for the simple fact that he would have at best put them within one with that. To me, even if Ozuna's bunt would not have worked out, at least we tried something that they were not prepared for to win the game. I liked his decision to give it a shot, and the situation lent itself perfectly if the execution was right (which it was). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shamrock4Life Posted May 24, 2006 Share Posted May 24, 2006 in my honest opinion, pablo's bunt was stupid. if the A's field that right we might lose that game. but sometimes stuff works out for you, and it did there with pablo. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RME JICO Posted May 24, 2006 Share Posted May 24, 2006 QUOTE(Shamrock4Life @ May 24, 2006 -> 07:51 AM) in my honest opinion, pablo's bunt was stupid. if the A's field that right we might lose that game. but sometimes stuff works out for you, and it did there with pablo. If the A's field the bunt it is still a tie game. It was a risky play that paid off. Either way it is risky whether you make the play or not, but I wouldn't call it stupid. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beautox Posted May 24, 2006 Share Posted May 24, 2006 QUOTE(Shamrock4Life @ May 24, 2006 -> 06:51 AM) in my honest opinion, pablo's bunt was stupid. if the A's field that right we might lose that game. but sometimes stuff works out for you, and it did there with pablo. im not going to flame you. But as i previously stated if pablo fails, we goto the top of the 11th, and McCarthy was warming up, i like our chances. At the bottom of the 11th it would've been Iguchi, Thome, Konerko and anyone one of them is power threat, and Most Likely Scott Would've been in Left Field and Ozuna would've been out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harry Chappas Posted May 24, 2006 Share Posted May 24, 2006 Pablo Ozuna takes a ton of pitches. In this situation he got a perfect pitch to bunt the pitcher was just going to try and get ahead of him. Also he is a good bunter, he even said he was a better bunter than hitter. Maybe he thought ot himself, if the pitcher throws me a pitch I can push to the right I can get a running start and beat it out because the second basemen is playing deep in the hole and the pitcher falls to the third base side. To compare this play to Neifi Perez is night and day. The best thing Neifi could have done was move the tying run into scoring position. Of the people I was watching the game with, 4 guys said he should try this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kyyle23 Posted May 24, 2006 Share Posted May 24, 2006 QUOTE(YASNY @ May 24, 2006 -> 05:24 AM) I think you guys are stretching to find a justification. In either case, the game was on the line one way or the other. I dont think the game was on the line for the white sox. If Pablo fails to execute, the Sox move on to the 11th. When Neifi failed to execute, the game was over. I dont really think Neifi was really stupid to try the bunt, especially if he thought the 3B or 1B was playing back and he could beat it out, but i think it speaks volumes for the "Cubs are pressing" theory and also i think it says a lot about Neifi's confidence at the plate. I dont think people would be sitting there calling Pablo stupid(Shamrock4life excluded) if the bunt was fielded cleanly and Pablo was thrown out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RibbieRubarb Posted May 24, 2006 Share Posted May 24, 2006 Not to burst anyone's pessimistic bubble, but...WE WON. It Worked. We Won. Why dwell on "what if..."? You could do that the whole game... "What if" we didn't take so many pitches from Zito he'd still be in the game late and we'd never come back. "What if" pinch-hitting Rob Mackowiak in the 8th resulted in a strike-out and not a two-run homer? I am not against discussing the motivation behind the bunt, but the negativity after-the-fact towards a designed play that won us the game is odd. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harry Chappas Posted May 24, 2006 Share Posted May 24, 2006 On May 3rd what did Ozuna do in similar situation(S).......maybe the guy has good baseball instinct.....maybe Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fathom Posted May 24, 2006 Share Posted May 24, 2006 There's no comparison between Ozuna's play and Neifi's play. With Ozuna going for the bunt, he was in a situation where if the bunt is successful, the Sox win. Thus, he was showing the balls to actually go for the win. However, even if Neifi was successful with his bunt, the Cubs would have needed another hit to score the runner from 2nd base. Also, Chad Cordero does a pretty good job of fielding his position. Flores, on the other hand, was finishing off on the left side of the mound. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Allen Posted May 24, 2006 Share Posted May 24, 2006 Ozuna was up in a situation were if he gets a hit, the Sox win. If Perez executes the bunt perfectly, the Cubs are still trailing and will need at least another hit, if not 2 to tie the game. As I stated in another thread, I was at the game, and Macha was warning Swisher, who usually plays the OF but was at 1B which made Ozuna's idea even better, about the possibility of a bunt. Swisher just nodded, but didn't move in or anything, and really had no chance to throw Pablo, who is turning into one of the best bench hitters in all of baseball, out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RockRaines Posted May 24, 2006 Share Posted May 24, 2006 QUOTE(fathom @ May 24, 2006 -> 09:00 AM) There's no comparison between Ozuna's play and Neifi's play. With Ozuna going for the bunt, he was in a situation where if the bunt is successful, the Sox win. Thus, he was showing the balls to actually go for the win. However, even if Neifi was successful with his bunt, the Cubs would have needed another hit to score the runner from 2nd base. Also, Chad Cordero does a pretty good job of fielding his position. Flores, on the other hand, was finishing off on the left side of the mound. Great point. If you watch Flores, it was obvious he was falling off towards the 3b side of the mound. Also Swisher backed up a few feet for whatever reason which basically asked for a bunt in any situation. Pair that with Ozuna's ridiculous speed advantage over Nefi, our grass actually being cut, and the fact the game was tied, leads to a great play. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest JimH Posted May 24, 2006 Share Posted May 24, 2006 The points that Rock and fathom make are very good and they're all a part of execution. Not only getting down the bunt, but knowing who's pitching, who's playing where, etc. This is one reason why Guillen has always told KW "get me baseball players" instead of superstars. He likes aggressive players with a high baseball IQ and Ozuna fits. I would bet Ozuna recognized the entire situation in two seconds flat, he didn't pigeonhole himself before the at bat. As for Neifi Perez, he didn't execute and it didn't seem like the opposition was surprised by his bunt. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RockRaines Posted May 24, 2006 Share Posted May 24, 2006 QUOTE(JimH @ May 24, 2006 -> 09:28 AM) The points that Rock and fathom make are very good and they're all a part of execution. Not only getting down the bunt, but knowing who's pitching, who's playing where, etc. This is one reason why Guillen has always told KW "get me baseball players" instead of superstars. He likes aggressive players with a high baseball IQ and Ozuna fits. I would bet Ozuna recognized the entire situation in two seconds flat, he didn't pigeonhole himself before the at bat. As for Neifi Perez, he didn't execute and it didn't seem like the opposition was surprised by his bunt. Even Ozzie said he plays the game right. There were so many factors that contributed to it being a perfect situation for a bunt. Even Hawk called it. Nefi is a fat, slow, bad situational player. They are two different circumstances. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fathom Posted May 24, 2006 Share Posted May 24, 2006 I said this in the thread, and I really meant it. Against a lefty, with the winning run on 3rd and 2 outs, there's no one else on the team I'd rather have up. Ozuna has so many options for getting a hit (bunt, infield chopper, liner to right field). He also makes a lot of contact, and you know he's not going to be trying to hit a homer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YASNY Posted May 24, 2006 Author Share Posted May 24, 2006 Okay ... Now we are getting somewhere. The pitcher falling off the mound, Swisher at 1B ... That's the kind of stuff what I was looking for. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LosMediasBlancas Posted May 24, 2006 Share Posted May 24, 2006 Someone's been doing a lot of detailed Cub game watching. Interesting. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wedge Posted May 24, 2006 Share Posted May 24, 2006 I think we were also helped in that situation because the 2B didn't get over to first fast enough. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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