Official Soxtalk 2006 World Cup Thread

[SoxFan1]

I also watched the Fire/Red Bulls last night and it wasn't the foul calls that stood out to me, but the complete low level of play. The 2 goals that the Fire scored (from about 18 yards out both times) were probably the softest damned goals that I have EVER seen scored. Combine the 2 kicks, and it doesn't even break a window.

 

The level of play in the MLS is so inferior to that of the level in Serie A, La Liga, Bundesliga, etc. And the fact that the MLS can't lure any big named players also puts a hamper on the sport in the US.

 

But anyway, the Swiss/Ukraine game should be good. The attacking of Shevchenko vs the great defense of the Swiss.

[Chisoxrd5]

Forza Italy

 

Oh that Dutch game yesterday was bulls***. Screw the Portugese players and there dirty ways.

 

I normally would have been rooting for the Dutch, but I'm not a big fan of their coach. He's hard headed and takes personal issues on the pitch with him. When he failed to bring in Van Nistlerooy and opted to put in Venegoor of Hesselink for him my opinion of him is in the crapper. How can you not play one of the most prolific goal scorers in the game when you're down a goal in the WORLD CUP? I would imagine he is taking a beating in the Dutch press after that.

 

As for the Aussies/Italy game. More terrible officiating. The red card on Italy never should have been and the PK was questionable at best. I feel terrible for the Aussies but once again I thought their coach did a terrible job of using his substitutes.

[Soxbadger]

Well obviously the quality of play will be low:

 

1) It is basically one of the lowest leagues in the world.

 

2) Its during the World Cup so the "best" players are gone.

 

But if MLS gets backing money wise, there really is no reason why they wont be able to draw the bigger athletes. The US is where the money is in the sporting world, and that is why you hear of Beckham's wanting to come here as they age. If there could be a "Gretzky" type player in US soccer, it would blow up.

 

Unfortunately US players just do not have the technical skills of foreign players. Even watching the US team in the World Cup, their touches are almost always poor and they lack any creativity in attacking. Its almost as if they are the antithesis of US sports, in which generally people want to see high scoring games regardless of the consequence. You would think that the US would come out and attack, because atleast that would appeal to the US audience.

Edited June 26, 2006 by Soxbadger

[danman31]

Watching this World Cup and then watching the MLS game, Fire versus Red Bull, it just is shocking the difference in physicality. The MLS basically had no fouls called, and many no calls would have received atleast a yellow card in the cup.

Yeah I thought the same thing. I like the more physical, less fouls and cards called. That Fire game was the first I had seen in a long time and it really made me look at MLS differently. I hate MLS, it sucks, and has been awful ever since a lot of the best players in the league (especially the Fire) got picked clean by European powers a few yeas ago. I noticed how you rarely see balls in the air and quick reversals of the field like you see in the World Cup. The MLS style can be fun if the team is good enough to play it. The Fire in 2003 were a machine that was fun to watch, but that style doesn't work against better teams.

[SleepyWhiteSox]

I also watched the Fire/Red Bulls last night and it wasn't the foul calls that stood out to me, but the complete low level of play.

 

Exactly. About 10 minutes of watching that level of play was enough for me to quickly change the channel...

[southsideirish71]

One of the biggest things that will hurt the game being popular in the US is the theatrics. You get a guy taken down, he rolls on the ground like he is in the most painful agony in the world, a few minutes of rolling on the ground, and the mash unit comes out. They drag him off on the stretcher. About a minute later the player is jumping up and down on the side, trying to get into the game again. its a f***ing miracle. You get near the box, and everyone is diving all over the place on close plays. These are the reasons that people call the sport a pussy sport here in the US. Soccer can be very physical, however the actors diving all over the place, and the injury fakes tear the entire sport down. I would rather see a guy try and nutmeg a guy in the box, than fall down when the guy gets near. The gooch penalty against Ghana for example. The guy is barely touched and he falls down.

 

These refs giving out yellow cards like there is a sale on them is also a joke. A yellow card for a misplaced tackle in the WC is sad. You should only give a card if you feel that the play was malicious. But the refs are flinging cards out left and right like they were given a quota. But no one is getting a card for diving.

[SleepyWhiteSox]

But if MLS gets backing money wise, there really is no reason why they wont be able to draw the bigger athletes. The US is where the money is in the sporting world, and that is why you hear of Beckham's wanting to come here as they age.

 

But aging players won't raise the level of play of the league, and I question just how much interest they'll bring. Will it be enough to entice more and more young boys to play? Doubtful. I just think this is one of those sports that won't ever catch on at the level needed to make the US a true contender on the world level...

[SoxFan1]

Diving and acting is a part of the game of soccer and it has been for a long time. The reason for the s***loads of yellow and red cards this year is because the referees were told to be more stict and to protect the players. Take that FWIW.

[Soxbadger]

Sleepy,

 

The level of US play will increase consistently over the next few years. Of the great super powers in soccer, only 1, Brazil has a population near 200mil. When you look at the size of the US compared to other nations, it only needs a fraction of the interest to be competitive. Then combine that with how many immigrants from latin america are coming into the US, there is a foundation for a great Soccer team.

 

MLS basically just needs to stay afloat. Only MLB started with no competition, when NHL, NBA, NFL started there were multiple league's questions about whether the sport would be able to make it etc. But as time passed each of them began to make their own niche in American society. And while the US is not supreme at hockey, they still hold their own on the international level, which is all US soccer needs to do to really start the ball rolling.

 

Once they can go out there with legitimate world wide stars, people are going to buy the jerseys and want to be on the team. Its not that young boys dont play soccer, almost every kid I knew played soccer, almost all of them until high school. The biggest detractor at that point was the similar season of football and soccer, where many who played both had to chose. Once there is money to be made by American's in soccer, there will be many more chosing it at as a sport.

 

Just as of now, the US has not had any real legitimate world wide star. When the first does come, it will bring the sport popularity.

[SoxFan1]

When the US develops it's own international superstar, it will become more popular. IE, when the US get's its own Pele, it's own Beckenbauer, it's own Luis Figo, then it will blow up.

 

And don't you dare say Demarcus f***in Beasley or Brian McBride.

[southsideirish71]

Diving and acting is a part of the game of soccer and it has been for a long time. The reason for the s***loads of yellow and red cards this year is because the referees were told to be more stict and to protect the players. Take that FWIW.

 

 

Diving and acting has been part of soccer for a while, however its provides nothing to the game at all, and should be eliminated.

 

 

 

When the US develops it's own international superstar, it will become more popular. IE, when the US get's its own Pele, it's own Beckenbauer, it's own Luis Figo, then it will blow up.

 

And don't you dare say Demarcus f***in Beasley or Brian McBride.

 

They will say Freddy Adu. Which they will be wrong about.

 

I still thing that Rossi will be better than Adu. However he wants to play for Italy instead of playing for the US.

[SleepyWhiteSox]

When the US develops it's own international superstar, it will become more popular. IE, when the US get's its own Pele, it's own Beckenbauer, it's own Luis Figo, then it will blow up.

 

And don't you dare say Demarcus f***in Beasley or Brian McBride.

 

Much, much, much, much, much easier said than done...

 

There's probably only about 10 today and half are Brazilian.

Edited June 26, 2006 by SleepyWhiteSox

[SoxFan1]

Much, much, much, much, much easier said than done...

 

There's probably only about 10 today and half are Brazilian.

That's not true. There are ton's of superstars in the game today and most developed by their own countries.

 

Ronaldo (Cruzeiro), Ronaldinho (Gremio), Roberto Carlos (Palmeiras), Kaka (Sao Paulo), and Adriano (Flamengo) all of Brazil.

 

David Beckham was brought up by Manchester United. Wayne Rooney was brought up by Everton. Both from England.

 

David Ballack (Chemnitzer) and Oliver Kahn (Karlsruher) from Germany.

 

Andriy Shevchenko was brought up by Dynamo Kyiv of Ukraine.

 

Italy has a bunch too. Gigi Buffon (Parma), Francesco Totti (Roma), and Alessandro del Piero (Juventus). Italians are a bit different because almost all of their players come from like 2 or 3 youth teams.

 

Thierry Henry (Monaco) and Zinedine Zidane (Cannes) were both brought up by France.

 

The USA just isn't meant for soccer. The sport will never blow up here. Many countries have numerous youth teams and recruit from such young ages. I believe Brazil has an under-8 team.

Edited June 26, 2006 by SoxFan1

[SleepyWhiteSox]

That's not true. There are ton's of superstars in the game today and most developed by their own countries.

 

Ronaldo (Cruzeiro), Ronaldinho (Gremio), Roberto Carlos (Palmeiras), Kaka (Sao Paulo), and Adriano (Flamengo) all of Brazil.

 

David Beckham was brought up by Manchester United. Wayne Rooney was brought up by Everton. Both from England.

 

David Ballack (Chemnitzer) and Oliver Kahn (Karlsruher) from Germany.

 

Andriy Shevchenko was brought up by Dynamo Kyiv of Ukraine.

 

Italy has a bunch too. Gigi Buffon (Parma), Francesco Totti (Roma), and Alessandro del Piero (Juventus). Italians are a bit different because almost all of their players come from like 2 or 3 youth teams.

 

Thierry Henry (Monaco) and Zinedine Zidane (Cannes) were both brought up by France.

 

The USA just isn't meant for soccer. The sport will never blow up here. Many countries have numerous youth teams and recruit from such young ages. I believe Brazil has an under-8 team.

 

I was being facetious (even though you only named 15 so saying 10 isn't that far off), but you basically agreed with my point with that last part.

 

I don't foresee the mls ever being as good as leagues in Brazil, Argentina, Mexico, France, Germany, etc...much less Italy, Spain, and England...so I'm not sure how you'd be expecting a homegrown superstar.

[SoxFan1]

I was being facetious (even though you only named 15 so saying 10 isn't that far off), but you basically agreed with my point with that last part.

 

I don't foresee the mls ever being as good as leagues in Brazil, Argentina, Mexico, France, Germany, etc...much less Italy, Spain, and England...so I'm not sure how you'd be expecting a homegrown superstar.

I could keep going if you'd like. I didn't mention any Portugese, Spanish, or African players.

 

But anyway, I don't expect the US to have an homegrown superstars and I never said I'd expect it. The only way is to promote soccer in the US more (and not with propoganda type ads a la the Fire) and to start recruiting players at younger ages. I don't even think another World Cup held in the US would boost soccer in the minds of Americans. They have to get more leagues adn youth teams going and expand. Get MLS teams in Milwaukee, Cleveland, Boston, Detroit, Miami, Phoenix, etc.

[SleepyWhiteSox]

I could keep going if you'd like. I didn't mention any Portugese, Spanish, or African players.

 

10 was a nice round number...and it depends on what you mean by "international superstar" but I'm not gonna get into an argument about what does or does not qualify as international superstar...

 

Wanna fight?

 

Anyways, we basically agreed on the other part...

[SoxFan1]

10 was a nice round number...and it depends on what you mean by "international superstar" but I'm not gonna get into an argument about what does or does not qualify as international superstar...

 

Wanna fight?

 

Anyways, we basically agreed on the other part...

Pretty much. So, touche.

[SleepyWhiteSox]

Pretty much. So, touche.

 

[SleepyWhiteSox]

These guys suck at penalties...

[SoxFan1]

Holy cow, Ukraine wins on PK's. Switzerland is fabulous on PK's.

[BigSqwert]

Switzerland is fabulous on PK's.

Looked awful today.

[danman31]

Worst. Game. Ever.

[SoxFan1]

Looked awful today.

I didn't think I would need green, but OK.

[Chisoxfn]

Wow, Swiss were tremendous defensively, outplayed Ukraine, but just can't score.

 

Eliminated without ever giving up a goal in this years world cup.

[DBAHO]

Absolutely devastated. Terrible way to go out.

 

Italy's penalty was ABSOLUTE BS. Lucas Neill was on the ground, lying down, and the Italy Left Back jumped over him, Neill didn't move, and then the Italy guy theatrically fell to the ground. He should have gotten a yellow card for diving instead.

 

Materazzi getting sent off was fairly bordeline. The tackle itself wasn't that bad and probablly deserved a yellow, but he was the last man, which equals trouble.

 

But we've had refereeing decisions go against us all tournament. It's nothing new.