2006 White Sox Catch-All Thread

[witesoxfan]

El Duque is starting game one of the playoffs.

Should we just fricking have stood pat after last year?

 

The Sox would have been abused had they stood pat. Carl Everett would agree with me.

[Kalapse]

El Duque is starting game one of the playoffs.

And this is just one of the reasons why the Mets aren't making it out of the first round.

[SnB]

And this is just one of the reasons why the Mets aren't making it out of the first round.

whoever wins the NL central pillowfight is winning the NL pennant.

[BigSqwert]

Palehose 7!!!

 

http://www.palehose7.blogspot.com/

[GreatScott82]

It would be funny as hell if we swept the Twins and they have to go to New York for the divisional series. It wont happen, but it would be kind of nice to see and a good way to go into the offseason despite this season major dissappointment.

[Baines3]

El Duque is starting game one of the playoffs.

Should we just fricking have stood pat after last year?

 

I think it was a mistake trading El Duque. He has a World Series ring with the Sox, now he has the chance for one with the Mets

[max power]

whoever wins the NL central pillowfight is winning the NL pennant.

God damn Brewers blew it today. I would have loved to see houston give it another go. Its not out of the question entirely yet.

Edited September 30, 2006 by max power

[fullcollapse]

was at the first two twins games, they gave out a preliminary twins schedule, looking ahead to 2007

min @ chi 4/6 - 4/8 (fri-sun)

chi @ min 5/8 - 5/10 (tue-thu)

chi @ min 5/28 - 5/30 (mon-wed)

min @ chi 7/6 - 7/8 (weekend before asb)

min @ ch 9/7 -9/9 (fri-sun)

chi @ min 9/21 - 9/23 (fri-sun, includes 11:00 am saturday game)

 

obviously all dates and times subject to change, just some random information looking towards next year.

[beck72]

I think it was a mistake trading El Duque. He has a World Series ring with the Sox, now he has the chance for one with the Mets

 

He could have just as easily been on the DL for 1/2 the yr. Pitching in the NL where he could go 5 innings and face the weak #8 hitter and the pitcher also helped him. If he stuck around the AL he would have had a +5 ERA

[santo=dorf]

QUOTE(beck72 @ Oct 1, 2006 -> 05:33 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

He could have just as easily been on the DL for 1/2 the yr. Pitching in the NL where he could go 5 innings and face the weak #8 hitter and the pitcher also helped him. If he stuck around the AL he would have had a +5 ERA

Considering his ERA is around 4.65 this year in the NL, it'd be likely around 6.00.

 

But greg likes his pitchers with wins, like Mark Redman.

[Felix]

But greg likes his pitchers with wins, like Mark Redman.

He's an All-Star, so he must be good!

[Heads22]

I'm thinking we should create an offseason catch-all thread and retire this one....

[southsider2k5]

Yeah, maybe it is time to reopen Trade Winds too as all of the rumors and inuendo starts to fly...

[greg775]

Oz catches so much flak from fans.

Should KW be fired for letting Big Hurt go?

It's a business of results and Big Hurt is fricking amazing.

He leads the A's single handedly to a Game One win today??

My gawd. Why is he not a White Sox and why are we not riding

Big Hurt this postseason.

 

p.s. poor cardinal fans. They have to listen to Berman do the game.

[southsideirish71]

Oz catches so much flak from fans.

Should KW be fired for letting Big Hurt go?

It's a business of results and Big Hurt is fricking amazing.

He leads the A's single handedly to a Game One win today??

My gawd. Why is he not a White Sox and why are we not riding

Big Hurt this postseason.

 

p.s. poor cardinal fans. They have to listen to Berman do the game.

 

 

Should KW be fired for letting a 6'5 270 pound guy around 40 who has broken his foot 2 times in 2 years go. You have to be kidding me.

 

When healthy Frank is a great hitter, but to gamble a season coming off of a world series championship on a guy who may have a bad wheel isnt a good call. KW did the right thing. Good job by Thomas on keeping healthy.

 

Thank god that the Phillies didnt make the playoffs or we would have to hear how Rowand was the sole reason that they made it and we didnt.

Edited October 3, 2006 by southsideirish71

[witesoxfan]

Should KW be fired for letting Big Hurt go?

It's a business of results...

 

[greg775]

Actually, yes. Fire Williams for not brining back Thomas and his .219 batting average and bum ankle. Shame on Williams for going out and getting the LH stick we needed in the lineup.

 

Exactly my point. Thomas didn't hit .219 and the ankle didn't matter.

Can you argue it's a business of results?

I know we "had" to make changes after winning it all. But did he make the right changes?

BA .... sucked. Rowand was missed.

Blum ... starting today for Padres, could have remained, was Mack that good?

Marte and Viz ... could they have been helpful especialy with Hermy hurt?

Frank ... again, he is carrying that team single handedly.

 

I am just saying Big Hurt is making KW look VERY BAD with each and every home run and each and every

stellar performance.

If Oz gets lambasted, why not KW for this move which can be second guessed.

And I do love Thome. He was good this year; but did we need him when we could have had Hurt and addressed

other needs like letting Aaron continue to play balls out and run into walls in cf.????

[Gene Honda Civic]

I love the ignore feature

[Heads22]

Exactly my point. Thomas didn't hit .219 and the ankle didn't matter.

Can you argue it's a business of results?

I know we "had" to make changes after winning it all. But did he make the right changes?

BA .... sucked. Rowand was missed.

Blum ... starting today for Padres, could have remained, was Mack that good?

Marte and Viz ... could they have been helpful especialy with Hermy hurt?

Frank ... again, he is carrying that team single handedly.

 

I am just saying Big Hurt is making KW look VERY BAD with each and every home run and each and every

stellar performance.

If Oz gets lambasted, why not KW for this move which can be second guessed.

And I do love Thome. He was good this year; but did we need him when we could have had Hurt and addressed

other needs like letting Aaron continue to play balls out and run into walls in cf.????

 

We didn't miss the playoffs because we didn't have Rowand, Blum, Marte, Viz and Frank.

 

We missed the playoffs because our starting pitching took a s***.

[SnB]

We didn't miss the playoffs because we didn't have Rowand, Blum, Marte, Viz and Frank.

 

We missed the playoffs because our starting pitching took a s***.

wrong.

 

everyone knows the lack of marte is the reason we're not playing right now.

[southsideirish71]

Exactly my point. Thomas didn't hit .219 and the ankle didn't matter.

Can you argue it's a business of results?

I know we "had" to make changes after winning it all. But did he make the right changes?

BA .... sucked. Rowand was missed.

Blum ... starting today for Padres, could have remained, was Mack that good?

Marte and Viz ... could they have been helpful especialy with Hermy hurt?

Frank ... again, he is carrying that team single handedly.

 

I am just saying Big Hurt is making KW look VERY BAD with each and every home run and each and every

stellar performance.

If Oz gets lambasted, why not KW for this move which can be second guessed.

And I do love Thome. He was good this year; but did we need him when we could have had Hurt and addressed

other needs like letting Aaron continue to play balls out and run into walls in cf.????

 

Geoff Blum? Marte? Rowand?

 

You should buy the baseball package and watch more games, because you are missing a whole lot here. Basing baseball decisions on the commemorative 2005 DVD is not a good way to go. On the 1985 Bears commemorative video Willie Gault catches everything. Everyone looks good on the WS DVD its just a fact.

 

 

38 year old guys of the 270 pound 6'5 stature who have a bad wheel over 2 concecutive seasons are not the cornerstone of a championship team I would make. But you keep telling yourself that everyone knew he would be healty and all of the other teams such as the twins who passed on him because of health reasons who were going to get a bargain didnt have your insight.

 

 

If you are trying to convince people that 6'5 270pound 38 year olds with a foot that keeps breaking is a sound investment for an important position

Edited October 4, 2006 by southsideirish71

[greg775]

We didn't miss the playoffs because we didn't have Rowand, Blum, Marte, Viz and Frank.We missed the playoffs because our starting pitching took a s***.

 

I'm just asking you to consider what I'm talking about.

History says we did not repeat.

That is a proven fact.

For debating purposes what is so hard to at least talk about, consider my point?

I am not saying I'm 100 percent right.

 

But for discussion purposes. ...

Frank is carrying the A's. Jim did not carry the Sox.

Marte and Viz could not have done worse than what we had this year.

We still had Bobby.

Blum was fine. We did not need Mack.

Rowand was fine; we did not need BA.

Yes the starting pitching was a vital factor. I am saying why can you not

accept the possibility my argument about Frank holds water.

The stats say he has been HUGE.

If we keep him and Aaron we perhaps improve in other areas.

Yes I guess we needed a lefty bat; Frank had a big righty bat all year.

I'm just saying KW in hindsight may deserve to get blasted.

 

and Gene Honda Civic ... ok, give me your take on KW and the moves he made.

I'm interested.

You tell me BA was acceptable and our middle relief couldn't have used

better tweaking.

 

I do agree with this comment by southsideirish:

"Basing baseball decisions on the commemorative 2005 DVD

is not a good way to go"

I guess in many ways I am doing that; I'm just saying in hindsight ...

was this not a plausible explanation for our failure?

Edited October 4, 2006 by greg775

[Heads22]

I'm sick and f***ing tired of hearing about how this team would have been better with Aaron Rowand than Thome. People need to realize he wasn't the f***ing be-all and end-all of centerfielders.

[Gene Honda Civic]

I'd have no problem parting with Rowand. I feel that he's easily replaceable with Brian N. Anderson. -- Here's where somebody questions trading him when he has such a "low value". Buy low, sell High. Well, I believe that Rowand's value is about as high as it's ever going to be. There are a few teams (Yankees, Padres, D'Backs, Red Sox all come to mind) who'd all love to have Rowand in center field.

 

Rowand and prospects in a salary dump? Fine.

Rowand and Marte + prospects in a little bit less of a salary dump? OK.

Rowand + a starting pitcher not named El Duque? No way in hell.

 

I'm still searching for quotes, but before any moves were made, I had identified the 4 players who were the most easily replacable assets the Sox had from the 2005 squad who were still under Sox control as Rowand, Marte, El Duque, and Vizcaino.

 

Those were the 4 players any smart GM would have had the foresight to move while attempting to make the '05 White Sox better. That's exactly who KW moved. The moves may not have worked out how you wanted them to, but they were the right trading chips to use. Kenny identified the players

 

But, I also saw the bullpen meltdown coming from last November.

2006 will come down to whether the pitching was a fluke -- I think Garland and Contreras can repeat, but some of the members of the bullpen like Cotts, Hermanson, Politte should regress -- and what Kenny Williams does to the offense this winter.

 

[...]

 

Cotts has only a fastball. I can't imagine him posting another sub-2 ERA with only one pitch. He had a lot of his bequeathed runners erased by Politte too.

 

Hermanson elected not to have surgery on his ailing back. I'd be surprised if he put up another sub-3 ERA season next year.

 

Politte was light years better in '05 than he was in '04, largely because of his incredible control in the first half. I just don't see him being able to put together a run like that again next year.

Of course, I didn't foresee all of them being worse than league average in '06. I only expected they would be average-to-slightly-above-average, so I didn't really feel that acquiring much bullpen help was necessary.

 

Rowand was a player a year removed from a 900 OPS season, and months removed from gaining a reputation as one of the best defensive CFers in baseball. But he was also an automatic out on sliders low-and-away and was jamming himself on anything on the inner half trying to compensate. He was cheap and overvalued on the open market with a number of clubs looking to improve their CF positions.

 

From the Sox perspective, there was no reason to believe that Brian Anderson couldn't replace Rowand's prodigious 6-4-3 total while generally looking feeble at the plate, which, if you'll remember, is pretty much what you got at the plate from Rowan in '05. If you want to argue that Rowand's departure hurt the Sox because they lost defense, you'd be right, but your anger should not be directed at Williams, rather Ozzie, who continued to play a utility player/corner outfielder in his place.

 

Rowand was also used to fill the Sox most glaring hole in '05. They didn't have a #3 hitter, as those players combined to post a sub .300 OBP, and needed to add OBP and some left-handed pop to their line-up. It was either Thome or Delgado, and Delgado didn't want to come to Chicago.

 

Williams did his job about as well as can be expected. He may not have made all the right moves, but he had sound reasoning behind every single one of them. He's not the reason the Sox are watching the playoffs on TV right now. Crappy starting pitching, which Williams tried to guard against with the acquisition of Vazquez, our two best arms in the bullpen being hurt -- yet refusing to admit the obvious -- and the offense going in the crapper down the stretch are the three biggest reasons that we're not in the playoffs.

[SleepyWhiteSox]

Catch-All went to s***.