NYSox35 Posted June 9, 2006 Share Posted June 9, 2006 QUOTE(Milkman delivers @ Jun 9, 2006 -> 12:25 PM) What would people say are the actual chances that Garland goes to the pen? I really never even thought of it as an option, but it seems to be becoming more and more believable. I'll preface this by saying, what do I know? Nothing That being said, I say the chances are next to nothing. We're paying this guy $7 million this year. You don't put guys like that in the pen. Further, we want him to get back on track if he's sticking around 2 more years, or even if he isn't, so that he has some actual trade value. Right now I think it's mental and he's gone back to the bad big inning Jon of old. He will get straightened out long before the stretch run, which is what we need him for anyway. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsideirish71 Posted June 9, 2006 Share Posted June 9, 2006 QUOTE(NYSox35 @ Jun 9, 2006 -> 01:03 PM) I'll preface this by saying, what do I know? Nothing That being said, I say the chances are next to nothing. We're paying this guy $7 million this year. You don't put guys like that in the pen. Further, we want him to get back on track if he's sticking around 2 more years, or even if he isn't, so that he has some actual trade value. Right now I think it's mental and he's gone back to the bad big inning Jon of old. He will get straightened out long before the stretch run, which is what we need him for anyway. So while we are waiting for Jon to get his nuts back, how many 5 to 7 run games are we going to have to overcome in the next 2 months. And just like the 5th starter by committee in 2004 is this going to cost us the division. We cant throw away games because someone who makes a lot of money s***s the bed everytime he goes out there. He has had a few months to get it going. It is now June, and he is currently pitching worse than he did in his previous Judy years. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Milkman delivers Posted June 9, 2006 Share Posted June 9, 2006 See, I'm starting to think of Garland's contract as a sunk cost. Throwing him out there every fifth day isn't going to make the contract more worth it if he continues to pitch this way. The money is his no matter what, so why not go with the better start if it is possible? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NYSox35 Posted June 9, 2006 Share Posted June 9, 2006 QUOTE(southsideirish71 @ Jun 9, 2006 -> 02:18 PM) So while we are waiting for Jon to get his nuts back, how many 5 to 7 run games are we going to have to overcome in the next 2 months. And just like the 5th starter by committee in 2004 is this going to cost us the division. We cant throw away games because someone who makes a lot of money s***s the bed everytime he goes out there. He has had a few months to get it going. It is now June, and he is currently pitching worse than he did in his previous Judy years. Take a look at his game log: IP H R ER HR BB K W L SV IP ERA Jun 8 DET L 2-6 L 7.0 9 6 6 2 1 7 4 3 0 77.0 6.19 Jun 2 TEX L 3-4 - 6.2 5 3 3 1 2 4 4 2 0 70.0 6.04 IP H R ER HR BB K W L SV IP ERA May 28 @ TOR W 7-5 W 6.0 7 5 5 3 2 4 4 2 0 63.1 6.25 May 22 OAK W 5-4 - 6.1 10 4 4 3 2 5 3 2 0 57.1 6.12 May 17 @ TAM W 5-2 W 7.0 6 2 2 2 0 5 3 2 0 51.0 6.18 May 12 @ MIN L 1-10 L 5.1 11 7 7 2 2 1 2 2 0 44.0 6.75 May 5 KAN L 4-5 - 7.0 7 1 1 0 2 1 2 1 0 38.2 6.05 IP H R ER HR BB K W L SV IP ERA Apr 30 @ LAA W 6-5 - 7.0 5 5 5 1 2 2 2 1 0 31.2 7.11 Apr 24 @ SEA L 3-4 - 8.0 8 3 3 2 1 4 2 1 0 24.2 7.30 Apr 18 KAN W 4-1 W 6.1 6 1 1 1 0 3 2 1 0 16.2 9.18 Apr 13 @ DET W 13-9 W 5.0 13 7 7 2 1 2 1 1 0 10.1 13.94 Apr 7 @ KAN L 7-11 L 5.1 10 9 9 0 2 6 0 1 0 5.1 15.19 Season Total 77.0 97 53 53 19 17 44 4 3 0 0 6.19 Out of those starts, I'd say 3 of them are truly awful (Apr. 7, Apr. 13, May 12) Last night's #'s weren't good, but he had some things happen with bad defense behind him that played a part in 6 runs (Rob's miscue). Since the May 17 start, he has been keeping us in games (last night not really). He deserves to keep getting things on the right track. He will be fine and so will the Sox. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsideirish71 Posted June 9, 2006 Share Posted June 9, 2006 QUOTE(NYSox35 @ Jun 9, 2006 -> 01:28 PM) Take a look at his game log: IP H R ER HR BB K W L SV IP ERA Jun 8 DET L 2-6 L 7.0 9 6 6 2 1 7 4 3 0 77.0 6.19 Jun 2 TEX L 3-4 - 6.2 5 3 3 1 2 4 4 2 0 70.0 6.04 IP H R ER HR BB K W L SV IP ERA May 28 @ TOR W 7-5 W 6.0 7 5 5 3 2 4 4 2 0 63.1 6.25 May 22 OAK W 5-4 - 6.1 10 4 4 3 2 5 3 2 0 57.1 6.12 May 17 @ TAM W 5-2 W 7.0 6 2 2 2 0 5 3 2 0 51.0 6.18 May 12 @ MIN L 1-10 L 5.1 11 7 7 2 2 1 2 2 0 44.0 6.75 May 5 KAN L 4-5 - 7.0 7 1 1 0 2 1 2 1 0 38.2 6.05 IP H R ER HR BB K W L SV IP ERA Apr 30 @ LAA W 6-5 - 7.0 5 5 5 1 2 2 2 1 0 31.2 7.11 Apr 24 @ SEA L 3-4 - 8.0 8 3 3 2 1 4 2 1 0 24.2 7.30 Apr 18 KAN W 4-1 W 6.1 6 1 1 1 0 3 2 1 0 16.2 9.18 Apr 13 @ DET W 13-9 W 5.0 13 7 7 2 1 2 1 1 0 10.1 13.94 Apr 7 @ KAN L 7-11 L 5.1 10 9 9 0 2 6 0 1 0 5.1 15.19 Season Total 77.0 97 53 53 19 17 44 4 3 0 0 6.19 Out of those starts, I'd say 3 of them are truly awful (Apr. 7, Apr. 13, May 12) Last night's #'s weren't good, but he had some things happen with bad defense behind him that played a part in 6 runs (Rob's miscue). Since the May 17 start, he has been keeping us in games (last night not really). He deserves to keep getting things on the right track. He will be fine and so will the Sox. So the fact that he has given up 19 homers and the ball flys out in the summer at the cell. That doesnt scare you at all. Last night he could of given up a s***load more. He had one inning where there was a ball hit dead center to the wall, the next one was a mile high fly ball to the track, then a 2 run jack. Without his sinker working he is Eric Milton. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NYSox35 Posted June 9, 2006 Share Posted June 9, 2006 QUOTE(southsideirish71 @ Jun 9, 2006 -> 02:32 PM) So the fact that he has given up 19 homers and the ball flys out in the summer at the cell. That doesnt scare you at all. Last night he could of given up a s***load more. He had one inning where there was a ball hit dead center to the wall, the next one was a mile high fly ball to the track, then a 2 run jack. Without his sinker working he is Eric Milton. Sure I'm worried. I just think that given the fact we're right in the race and haven't been playing our best ball overall (as a team), he needs to stay in the rotation. What if you pull Jon and throw BMac out there and he bombs... Then you've got bigger issues than we're talking about now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VAfan Posted June 9, 2006 Share Posted June 9, 2006 I put this up in Trade Winds on the outfield possibilities thread, but it belongs here too. ********* Let me throw two other names into the mix that aren't mentioned here. 1. Eric Byrnes, CF, Arizona. He signed a one-year contract as a bridge to Arizona bringing up our own Chris Young, and he's tearing it up offensively, with 10 HRs. Now, they are still in first place, so they may be happy with him being a bridge player and won't want to jeopardize their playoff chances this year. But he's still a bridge guy, so it is not as if they wouldn't listen to an offer for him. 2. Mike Cameron. He has absolutely sucked in cavernous SD stadium, but was fine last year in NY. Compare the two years. 2005 NYM 76 308 47 84 23 2 12 39 29 85 13 1 .273 .342 .477 .819 2006 SD 42 167 23 40 7 0 1 18 19 48 11 0 .240 .321 .299 .620 Given his inability to give SD anything, why wouldn't they be happy to deal him? He signed a 3-year deal in 2004, so it will be up after this season. Thus, Cameron wouldn't block Anderson's development, it would just delay it. ************* My feeling is that Cameron is the guy we should go after. He started with the Sox, which is a big plus. His defense is still great (second best RF - to Brian Anderson - among ML CFs). And his power should revive in the Cell. Give San Diego Jerry Owens since he can't clear the fences in SD anyway, take on most of the balance of Cameron's $7.3 million 2006 deal, and call it a deal. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steff Posted June 9, 2006 Share Posted June 9, 2006 Mike Cameron found out he was traded via the ESPN ticker, and had nothing but bad things to say as a result of that (justifiably so, imo). I wouldn't count on him returning to the Sox. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Damen Posted June 9, 2006 Share Posted June 9, 2006 I can't believe people are piling on Garland after last night. The fact is, he pitched pretty damn well but again was a victim of Ozzie giving him a s*** defense. How many times have Garland's blowup innings been aided by Pablo Ozuna or Rob Mackowiak flailing around like idiots in the outfield. Garland relies on defense as much as anyone on our staff, yet for reasons unknown, he continually goes out there with the Ozzie lineup. If Mackowiak wasn't in center last night, people would be praising Garland for starting to turn it around, and putting us back in first place. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted June 9, 2006 Share Posted June 9, 2006 QUOTE(Damen @ Jun 9, 2006 -> 12:05 PM) I can't believe people are piling on Garland after last night. The fact is, he pitched pretty damn well but again was a victim of Ozzie giving him a s*** defense. How many times have Garland's blowup innings been aided by Pablo Ozuna or Rob Mackowiak flailing around like idiots in the outfield. Garland relies on defense as much as anyone on our staff, yet for reasons unknown, he continually goes out there with the Ozzie lineup. If Mackowiak wasn't in center last night, people would be praising Garland for starting to turn it around, and putting us back in first place. The thing is...if Garland was pitching well, the ball wouldn't even be going to the outfield, it'd be on the ground in the infield. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Allen Posted June 9, 2006 Share Posted June 9, 2006 QUOTE(Damen @ Jun 9, 2006 -> 02:05 PM) I can't believe people are piling on Garland after last night. The fact is, he pitched pretty damn well but again was a victim of Ozzie giving him a s*** defense. How many times have Garland's blowup innings been aided by Pablo Ozuna or Rob Mackowiak flailing around like idiots in the outfield. Garland relies on defense as much as anyone on our staff, yet for reasons unknown, he continually goes out there with the Ozzie lineup. If Mackowiak wasn't in center last night, people would be praising Garland for starting to turn it around, and putting us back in first place. If Anderson was in CF Rodriquez most likely never would have even attempted to go to second base. On the shot to CF, the horrific throw would not have been made because Rodriguez would not have been trying to score. On the one where Paulie looked a little stunned Guillen was trying to score, Guillen would have been at 1st base not second, so trying to score wouldn't have been an option. The defense was bad, and if Garland got out of the inning before giving up yet another bomb, Mack would have been a goat. Unfortunately Garland did give up another bomb. No additional outs were needed because of the bad defense in that inning. Garland was getting hit hard again. 6.19 ERA 19 homers allowed. You can put whatever spin you want on it, he has been horrible. Since the All Star break last season, he is 9-9 with an ERA in the middle 4's. He's a guy who has been around a long time and has been consistently mediocre his entire career, except for a few month stretch last season. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kalapse Posted June 9, 2006 Share Posted June 9, 2006 QUOTE(Balta1701 @ Jun 9, 2006 -> 02:16 PM) The thing is...if Garland was pitching well, the ball wouldn't even be going to the outfield, it'd be on the ground in the infield. Don't use logic asshole, it has no place in this discussion. Garland = sinkerballer, sinkerball = ground balls, yesterday he gave up a s*** load of fly balls which is something he's been doing all season long. I guess it depends on what you think is a good outing, is it good to give up a ton of warning track outs and balls to the outfield in general then have an inning extended by subpar defense and allow a HR instead of pitching over the defensive mistakes? A good outing for Jon will be when he's inducing a s*** load of ground balls while busting hitters in on the hands, keeping his pitches down and not allowing fly outs to the track. But I guess if you give up like 6 runs, 3 BB, 12 H over 6 IP but your offense gives you 8 runs and you win it was a pretty good outing huh? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VAfan Posted June 9, 2006 Share Posted June 9, 2006 (edited) QUOTE(Steff @ Jun 9, 2006 -> 01:48 PM) Mike Cameron found out he was traded via the ESPN ticker, and had nothing but bad things to say as a result of that (justifiably so, imo). I wouldn't count on him returning to the Sox. That was how many years ago? It is not as if he has veto power over a trade. And who wouldn't want to come back to the defending World Champions when you've never won a title? Plus, he's not helping his prospects at getting another halfway decent contract by slugging less than .300 in cavernous San Diego. He also can't blame Kenny Williams, who wasn't GM when Cameron was dealt. Mike Cameron ought to jump at the chance to come back to Chicago. Edited June 9, 2006 by VAfan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wealz Posted June 9, 2006 Share Posted June 9, 2006 How about Ichiro as a longshot possibility for center? He's in the last year of his contract I believe and while he might not be able to play a stellar CF, I'd bet he'd be at least as good as Mackowiak. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beautox Posted June 9, 2006 Share Posted June 9, 2006 QUOTE(Balta1701 @ Jun 9, 2006 -> 02:16 PM) The thing is...if Garland was pitching well, the ball wouldn't even be going to the outfield, it'd be on the ground in the infield. DING! DING! DING! hes a ground ball pitcher and features a sinker, he shouldn't be getting lit up like he has been. I grow weary of people always protecting Jon, face it you put your trust into a mediocre pitcher and he has done nothing but s*** the bed his entire career excluding two good months last season. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greasywheels121 Posted June 10, 2006 Share Posted June 10, 2006 I do have to say I love this thread. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kalapse Posted June 10, 2006 Share Posted June 10, 2006 (edited) QUOTE(Kalapse @ Jun 9, 2006 -> 10:49 PM) Who was it that said Brian Anderson hadn't won a game all year with his glove? This game was won by BA, the guy may suck total ass at the plate but he does not bring it with him to the outfield. Edited June 10, 2006 by Kalapse Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greasywheels121 Posted June 10, 2006 Share Posted June 10, 2006 Reifert says holla: http://whitesoxpride.mlblogs.com/inside_th.../mr_clutch.html So, how clutch is Jermaine Dye? After tonight's game, Ozzie Guillen announced that after lengthy pregame conversations, the club had decided to continue to go with Brian Anderson in center field. "This team is built around pitching and defense," Guillen said. The decision was made before Anderson's amazing, run-saving catch against the left-center field wall. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoxAce Posted June 10, 2006 Share Posted June 10, 2006 You can put that on the board..... YES!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kalapse Posted June 10, 2006 Share Posted June 10, 2006 QUOTE(greasywheels121 @ Jun 9, 2006 -> 10:56 PM) Reifert says holla: http://whitesoxpride.mlblogs.com/inside_th.../mr_clutch.html Funny how it took Ozzie over 2 months and a Rob Mack hot streak to figure out that BA's defense is invaluable to this team, for a guy who believes so heavily in pitching and defense it sure was funny watching an infielder/corner outfielder start at one of the most important defensive postions in the game for so long. Perhaps Ozzie's new found confidence in BA will spark him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rowand44 Posted June 10, 2006 Share Posted June 10, 2006 w00t Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greasywheels121 Posted June 10, 2006 Share Posted June 10, 2006 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SleepyWhiteSox Posted June 10, 2006 Share Posted June 10, 2006 Wouldn't even be much of an issue if he was hitting at least slightly above .200...but we have noone anywhere remotely close to his slick glove in center so we have to endure the automatic out and enjoy the piece of mind that he'll get it done with his glove out there... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kalapse Posted June 10, 2006 Share Posted June 10, 2006 QUOTE(greasywheels121 @ Jun 9, 2006 -> 11:03 PM) You're just so damn clever. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thedoctor Posted June 10, 2006 Share Posted June 10, 2006 i'm going to go on a limb and say tonight was a turning point for mr. anderson. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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