My Dixie Normus Posted June 9, 2006 Share Posted June 9, 2006 When BA makes an out at the plate, he screws up his own head. When Mackowiak blows a cut-off or a catch, an inning goes on for the pitcher. It screws with his (the Pitcher's) head. And for as good as our pitchers are, save Contreras, none of them shake off mistakes like that very well. Garland, Garcia and Buehrle get rattled by unearned earned runs, if you know what I mean. These plays that should be made, need to be made. These three starters even seem to get stronger after a big defensive play saves them from one of their own mistakes. BAs defense adds more than his lack of offense subracts. He needs to be in the line-up. Crazy idea. Move him up in the line up. Put him after Dye or even at #2 for a game or two. Let him see some pitches. Right now he get crap but he chases it. If you put him in a position where they have to pitch to him, he might get his stroke back. I know #2 is not going to happen but splitting him a Uribe up might be a good idea. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Allen Posted June 9, 2006 Share Posted June 9, 2006 QUOTE(My Dixie Normus @ Jun 8, 2006 -> 10:27 PM) When BA makes an out at the plate, he screws up his own head. When Mackowiak blows a cut-off or a catch, an inning goes on for the pitcher. It screws with his (the Pitcher's) head. And for as good as our pitchers are, save Contreras, none of them shake off mistakes like that very well. Garland, Garcia and Buehrle get rattled by unearned earned runs, if you know what I mean. These plays that should be made, need to be made. These three starters even seem to get stronger after a big defensive play saves them from one of their own mistakes. BAs defense adds more than his lack of offense subracts. He needs to be in the line-up. Crazy idea. Move him up in the line up. Put him after Dye or even at #2 for a game or two. Let him see some pitches. Right now he get crap but he chases it. If you put him in a position where they have to pitch to him, he might get his stroke back. I know #2 is not going to happen but splitting him a Uribe up might be a good idea. The other thing is, Mack really is not much more of an offensive threat than Anderson against lefties. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fathom Posted June 9, 2006 Share Posted June 9, 2006 QUOTE(Dick Allen @ Jun 9, 2006 -> 03:21 AM) About Garland. I went to Tucson on March20. I saw Garland pitch one of the games I saw down there, and he got lit up. I've been to every home game except 2 or 3 this year and have watched just about all of Garland's starts home and away. The thing that's alarming to me is the amount of hard hit balls against him. At least half of the outs he records are hit pretty well. This is about as bad as I have seen him pitch since he put on a White Sox uniform. Well, some people were trying to say that Garland didn't get hard tonight. From about the 3rd inning on, it seemed like every other batter hit the ball 340 feet or longer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsideirish71 Posted June 9, 2006 Share Posted June 9, 2006 QUOTE(fathom @ Jun 8, 2006 -> 10:35 PM) Well, some people were trying to say that Garland didn't get hard tonight. From about the 3rd inning on, it seemed like every other batter hit the ball 340 feet or longer. Garland is pitching like the 5th starter from 2004. Everytime he goes out its pretty much 5 to 7 runs. At some point this season they are going to have to buck up and put McCarthy into the rotation. Garland can then move to the pen. He is good for a few innings before he detonates, so it may work for him. I know we gave him money, but he is a time bomb waiting to happen. There was one inning tonight, where a ball its hit to the center field wall for an out, the next ball is a towering fly ball to the warning track, then a single on an 1-2 pitch, then a 2 run jack after he gets behind 1-0. There were numerous times tonight were Garland was 1-2 on a hitter and you blink your eye and its 3-2. He definately doesnt have his balls this year. Outs were lazer beams, fly outs where just missed long fly balls to the track. He got lucky that it wasnt like 10 runs he gave up. Sean pitched well. Pitched ahead, stayed ahead. Our offense fell asleep after the 2nd inning. Waving Cora killed the rally with the pen up to take Rodgers out of the game. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Allen Posted June 9, 2006 Share Posted June 9, 2006 QUOTE(fathom @ Jun 8, 2006 -> 10:35 PM) Well, some people were trying to say that Garland didn't get hard tonight. From about the 3rd inning on, it seemed like every other batter hit the ball 340 feet or longer. Garland really sucks right now. 2 more gopher balls, and he's really lucky it wasn't 7 or 8. Ozzie left him out there for over 120 pitches. There was a least 3 or 4 balls just skyed to the warning track. Another 3 or 4 that had close to homerun distance but were foul. And then the big inning. Mackowiak showed once again he's not a CF, but it didn't cost the White Sox any outs. Rodriquez never would have tagged up and gone to second if Mack even made a gesture to get into some kind of position to throw the ball to second, and Guillen didn't take second until the ball went sailing to homeplate the next batter. Then an infield hit, and you know what's coming next, Garland had gone 3 or 4 innings without allowing a homer, he was due. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoxFan1 Posted June 9, 2006 Share Posted June 9, 2006 (edited) Seems like Rob isn't getting enough of the blame here. He cost us the game tonight, plain and simple. Thames never should have been up there in the 1st place. I'll say this, if Anderson is in CF on that flyball, Ivan Rodriguez stays at 1st. He catches it and gets it in. No questions asked. But this is not an excuse for Jon's crappy pitching. Edited June 9, 2006 by SoxFan1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fathom Posted June 9, 2006 Share Posted June 9, 2006 QUOTE(SoxFan1 @ Jun 9, 2006 -> 03:50 AM) Seems like Rob isn't getting enough of the blame here. He cost us the game tonight, plain and simple. Thames never should have been up there in the 1st place. I'll say this, if Anderson is in CF on that flyball, Ivan Rodriguez stays at 1st. He catches it and gets it in. No questions asked. But this is not an excuse for Jon's crappy pitching. Please answer me this....where's the 3rd out in the inning before Thames bats then? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsideirish71 Posted June 9, 2006 Share Posted June 9, 2006 QUOTE(SoxFan1 @ Jun 8, 2006 -> 10:50 PM) Seems like Rob isn't getting enough of the blame here. He cost us the game tonight, plain and simple. Thames never should have been up there in the 1st place. I'll say this, if Anderson is in CF on that flyball, Ivan Rodriguez stays at 1st. He catches it and gets it in. No questions asked. But this is not an excuse for Jon's crappy pitching. Mack made a few errors out there. He caught that one catch back footed because he didnt judge the distance of the ball, he kind of started to run back a bit at the last minute. Pudge saw this and tagged and advanced. The other was the throwing mistake where he threw the ball to home instead of hitting the cutoff man. But we have a problem when our Sinkerball pitcher is giving up so many fly balls. Its a difference if he is a flyball pitcher, but this guy bread and butter is to get people to hit the ball on the ground. They were launching pitches to to the track. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoxFan1 Posted June 9, 2006 Share Posted June 9, 2006 QUOTE(fathom @ Jun 8, 2006 -> 10:51 PM) Please answer me this....where's the 3rd out in the inning before Thames bats then? If he gets the ball in quicker, Pudge is out at 2nd. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fathom Posted June 9, 2006 Share Posted June 9, 2006 QUOTE(SoxFan1 @ Jun 9, 2006 -> 04:00 AM) If he gets the ball in quicker, Pudge is out at 2nd. Pudge doesn't go to 2nd base if he sees that Mackowiak is in position to make a strong show. Between Mackowiak and Ozuna, we have two outfielders that make every routine fly ball an adventure. Mackowiak has a problem with his footwork when he's going to catch fly balls. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoxFan1 Posted June 9, 2006 Share Posted June 9, 2006 QUOTE(fathom @ Jun 8, 2006 -> 11:02 PM) Pudge doesn't go to 2nd base if he sees that Mackowiak is in position to make a strong show. Between Mackowiak and Ozuna, we have two outfielders that make every routine fly ball an adventure. Mackowiak has a problem with his footwork when he's going to catch fly balls. Because he drifts to it instead of running there and getting underneath it. It's quite annoying. Oh, and if Pudge stays at 1st, that would make 2 outs and then the blooper would make it 1st and 2nd/3rd with 2 outs. On that slow roller to Uribe, he could have forced the runner out at 2nd. 5 possible outs in that inning. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fathom Posted June 9, 2006 Share Posted June 9, 2006 QUOTE(SoxFan1 @ Jun 9, 2006 -> 04:13 AM) Because he drifts to it instead of running there and getting underneath it. It's quite annoying. Oh, and if Pudge stays at 1st, that would make 2 outs and then the blooper would make it 1st and 2nd/3rd with 2 outs. On that slow roller to Uribe, he could have forced the runner out at 2nd. 5 possible outs in that inning. That was a slow roller to the SS. No way is he getting the force out at 2nd base on that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoxFan1 Posted June 9, 2006 Share Posted June 9, 2006 QUOTE(fathom @ Jun 8, 2006 -> 11:15 PM) That was a slow roller to the SS. No way is he getting the force out at 2nd base on that. How? He almost got the guy at 1st. He would have had a force somewhere. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Allen Posted June 9, 2006 Share Posted June 9, 2006 QUOTE(SoxFan1 @ Jun 8, 2006 -> 11:11 PM) Because he drifts to it instead of running there and getting underneath it. It's quite annoying. Exactly. If he would have not drifted and caught the ball how he should have, Rodriquez wouldn't have even tried to get to second. Even with Mack's 2 horrible plays in CF, Garland faced as many hitters as he would have if Mack had played them correctly. If Garland doesn't give up the homer, then Mack would be the goat. It just shows Mack should not be in CF, at least not very often. It seems almost every game he's out there lately, his defensive deficiencies get put on display. You would think there would be a game once in a while when that wouldn't happen. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fathom Posted June 9, 2006 Share Posted June 9, 2006 QUOTE(SoxFan1 @ Jun 9, 2006 -> 04:16 AM) How? He almost got the guy at 1st. He would have had a force somewhere. Umm....such things as momentum heading towards first for Uribe, and the runner who would have been on first having a lead. I've never read so many "should of, could of, would of...." Garland's job is to get the batter out, and he didn't do that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Allen Posted June 9, 2006 Share Posted June 9, 2006 Garland has given up a Shingo-esque 19 homers this year. His ERA is over 6.00. He has been terrible. Why are so many defending him? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsideirish71 Posted June 9, 2006 Share Posted June 9, 2006 QUOTE(fathom @ Jun 8, 2006 -> 11:17 PM) Umm....such things as momentum heading towards first for Uribe, and the runner who would have been on first having a lead. I've never read so many "should of, could of, would of...." Garland's job is to get the batter out, and he didn't do that. Jon Garlands ERA is now at 6.19. He has given up 21 homers already. People are batting .311 against him. He is at the same levels as the 5th starter monster was in 2004. Someone needs to give him a come to jesus talk, or send his ass to the pen. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ndgt10 Posted June 9, 2006 Share Posted June 9, 2006 I still can't believe JG pitched a a complete game against the Angels in the ALCS last year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Punch and Judy Garland Posted June 9, 2006 Share Posted June 9, 2006 Rob M=great utility player and a superb 4th outfielder as a refresher. What he is not is an everyday CF'er. In fact, he would arguably be the worst in baseball should he stay there. Garland's contract is not an albatross but its starting to feel VERY heavy. We all just assumed that we could flip that $29 after this year for a star or stud prospects and use Mac but we might be stuck with Garland (or paying part of his freight) in any potential deal. I don't know if sending him to the pen is much better because the way he is pitching won't really help the pen either Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flash Tizzle Posted June 9, 2006 Share Posted June 9, 2006 (edited) QUOTE(Ndgt10 @ Jun 8, 2006 -> 11:43 PM) I still can't believe JG pitched a a complete game against the Angels in the ALCS last year. Hell, the way he's pitching now he may never repeat either one of the accomplishments listed above: throwing a complete game and pitching in the playoffs. Both together will require planets to align. Edited June 9, 2006 by Flash Tizzle Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jordan4life_2007 Posted June 9, 2006 Share Posted June 9, 2006 QUOTE(Ndgt10 @ Jun 8, 2006 -> 11:43 PM) I still can't believe JG pitched a a complete game against the Angels in the ALCS last year. What does his suckage this year have to do with last year? QUOTE(Kalapse @ Jun 8, 2006 -> 10:01 PM) Against the Pirates, Cubs and Reds. I'm not all that worried. Um, the Reds are tied for first now. I also would be a little worried about being able to match the Reds' high-powered offense -- especially in that ballpark. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kalapse Posted June 9, 2006 Share Posted June 9, 2006 QUOTE(Jordan4life_2006 @ Jun 9, 2006 -> 02:12 AM) Um, the Reds are tied for first now. I also would be a little worried about being able to match the Reds' high-powered offense -- especially in that ballpark. I'm simply talking about thier pitching, I'm sorry but the likes of Harang, Claussen, Elizardo Ramirez, Eric Milton and even Bronson Arroyo do not scare me. They're in first place in the NL Central which is about as unimpressive as it gets, if any of our starting pitchers show up for the series the offense won't have to worry about putting up 6 runs a game though the top 6 should be able to provide some decent run support anyway. The only possible pitching the Sox will have to face in NL parks is against the Cubs if they get Zambrano or possibly Duke in Pitt but in both those series they go up against absolutely pathetic offenses. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted June 9, 2006 Share Posted June 9, 2006 QUOTE(southsideirish71 @ Jun 8, 2006 -> 09:21 PM) Jon Garlands ERA is now at 6.19. He has given up 21 homers already. People are batting .311 against him. He is at the same levels as the 5th starter monster was in 2004. Someone needs to give him a come to jesus talk, or send his ass to the pen. Incorrect. The 5th starter for a good chunk of 2004 was Mr. "Off day". He never gave up a run. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Milkman delivers Posted June 9, 2006 Share Posted June 9, 2006 What would people say are the actual chances that Garland goes to the pen? I really never even thought of it as an option, but it seems to be becoming more and more believable. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted June 9, 2006 Share Posted June 9, 2006 QUOTE(Milkman delivers @ Jun 9, 2006 -> 09:25 AM) What would people say are the actual chances that Garland goes to the pen? I really never even thought of it as an option, but it seems to be becoming more and more believable. With McCarthy out there...it has to be considered. But the one problem right now is that BMac is the only guy I think we have any confidence in as a Righty setup man. If Politte were to return healthy and actually start getting people out, or if Tracy could make his performance last night the sort of thing we see from him every time out, we might have to make that move, at least for a while. If either of those 2 criteria are met within a month, and Garland still has an ERA of 6.2 and going up, hten you've got to consider it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.