Hangar18's Chicago NewsMedia Watch Thread

[southsider2k5]

Out of curiousity, are you counting the Adam Greenberg signing as a Cubs story, and not the story about the Tigers and Sox? Otherwise the numbers don't add up. If so I would like to see your logic explaining how a guy signing with the Dodgers is a Cubs story, but a story about the Tigers not going away is not a story about the Sox???

[Hangar18]

By my count, Trib had 5 articles for each team. Dead even.

 

Hangar, no one will take you rants seriously if both your tone AND your data are skewed and lacking in objectivity.

 

 

Im sure your counting the Detroit Tiger story as a SOX story. There are no interviews with SOX players, managers, staff regarding the Tigers. The story Isnt about what the SOX think of the Tigers. Its entirely on its own all about the Tigers, and thus isnt a SOX story. However, since were all nitpicking, im going to add this to the Tiger count. AGAIN, there are only 4 SOX stories in todays Tribune.

 

 

Out of curiousity, are you counting the Adam Greenberg signing as a Cubs story, and not the story about the Tigers and Sox? Otherwise the numbers don't add up. If so I would like to see your logic explaining how a guy signing with the Dodgers is a Cubs story, but a story about the Tigers not going away is not a story about the Sox???

 

A story about the Tigers, entirely about the Tigers and how the Tigers are a force to be reckoned with,

does them no service if its counted as a SOX story.

 

Greenbergs story was tough to call, but the Trib included it in the Cub notes section. The story im sure

didnt have to be included, but were told how he was a cub, was drafted, made his first appearance, got beaned, was injured, Cubs didnt know what to do with him, Greenburg asked Cubs to Release him making the Dodgers' interest a story in itself did qualify this as a Cub story.

 

And by the way, the Trib adds the William Ligue tales as "SOX" related, but I dont include those either.

Are you guys gonna sweat me for not including the Ligue stuff too?

 

Chicago NewsMedia Watch 6/9/06

 

The SOX again are not able to gain any ground on the 5th place and falling Cubs in terms of

media coverage in Chicago.

Despite Winning the World Series in 2005, its first title in 88 years, the White Sox INEXPLICABLY

find themselves lagging far behind in Media Coverage to a team that, is currently in 5th place, last season finished in 4th place, has ZERO 90-win seasons since 1990 (1998 doesnt count-163 games), has only THREE 90-win seasons since 1950, and hasnt won anything of significance since the Roosevelt administration

 

Chicago Tribune:

5 cub stories

4 sox stories

1 tigers storie

Chicago SunTimes:

4 cub stories

5 sox stories

Standings as of Friday June 9th, 2006

Priviledged, Undeserving, Media Owned, 5th place currently Cubs 554

Underdog, Unrecognized, Media Ignored, WS Champs 05 SOX 458

[southsider2k5]

Greenbergs story was tough to call, but the Trib included it in the Cub notes section. The story im sure

didnt have to be included, but were told how he was a cub, was drafted, made his first appearance, got beaned, was injured, Cubs didnt know what to do with him, Greenburg asked Cubs to Release him making the Dodgers' interest a story in itself did qualify this as a Cub story.

 

And by the way, the Trib adds the William Ligue tales as "SOX" related, but I dont include those either.

Are you guys gonna sweat me for not including the Ligue stuff too?

 

Those standards are self-contracdictary. The Greenberg article didn't have any interviews with any Cubs officials, and the Tigers article was in the Sox notes section, how could one apply to one, but not the other??? Also the Sox just played 3 games with Detroit, who is in front of them in the standings, and the whole article is interviews with Tigers being asked about the White Sox.

 

As for sweating you, after seeing the "mistakes" of earlier articles and observing inconsistancies within your accounting methods, I want to make sure was is going on here is correct. If you are going to be posting this stuff as if it is the gospels truth, the people here at Soxtalk at least have the right to know if it is accurate, or if it is Enron's accounting methods going on here.

[zach61]

That is a capital suggest Sleepy. I am glad you said it.

 

I am going to merge all of this stuff into one thread, that way who wants to read it will know where it is at, and at the sametime it won't take away from people who don't want to see it.

 

And for the meantime I will ask for those who just want to say they don't care, please skip this thread. If you have a legitimate argument, question, or comment feel free to add it. Other than that, please have the courtesy to let the people who are interested in this discuss it freely. We are letting Hanger have his say, just like we let everyone else, unless it becomes a big problem.

 

Any questions feel free to PM, post, or email as usual.

 

Great idea. Now the board won't be cluttered with bad counts of stories not about the Sox and this hangar guy can feel like he is sticking it to the Chicago media by posting on a Sox board about how they are biased against the Sox. And to show my support for hangar, I refused to let Trader Joe's put my groceries in a bag cause their shopping bags are biased towards the cubs. Until they put the Sox logo on their bags, I won't let them bag my groceries. I still go there just like hangar still reads the papers, but if I complain enough to Jewel Food Stores about it, then Trader Joe's will have to put the Sox logo on their bags.

[Hangar18]

Great idea. Now the board won't be cluttered with bad counts of stories not about the Sox and this hangar guy can feel like he is sticking it to the Chicago media by posting on a Sox board about how they are biased against the Sox. And to show my support for hangar, I refused to let Trader Joe's put my groceries in a bag cause their shopping bags are biased towards the cubs. Until they put the Sox logo on their bags, I won't let them bag my groceries. I still go there just like hangar still reads the papers, but if I complain enough to Jewel Food Stores about it, then Trader Joe's will have to put the Sox logo on their bags.

 

 

[/color] OK, Im busted. Ive doctored these totals for the last 4 years in an attempt to get more attention for the White Sox. When I gave the RedEye credit on 3/31 for having Paul Konerko on the cover,

I lied, Konerko wasnt on the cover, it was Juan Pierre. I only said that to subliminally get them to cover the SOX more. All the totals are wrong, the SOX have been Absolutely Dominating in Media Coverage

for the last 5 years, and the Media definitely admits there are 10times as many SOX fans and this is a SOX TOWN. I lied about them always referring to the cub town aspect

[Buehrle>Wood]

OK, Im busted. Ive doctored these totals for the last 4 years in an attempt to get more attention for the White Sox

We established this already.

[Hangar18]

We established this already.

 

 

So your saying based on that, there never was a bias towards the White Sox, it was all made up,

and the SOX have in fact, dominated the Cubs in newsprint media coverage for the last decade or so?

 

We established this already.

 

 

Since you say youve established that the SOX have dominated the Cubs in Media Coverage, you wouldnt happen to have any documentation/statistics/proof to validate this claim would you? Im curious because it sure seems quite the opposite. Especially in the last 10 years.

[Buehrle>Wood]

Since you say youve established that the SOX have dominated the Cubs in Media Coverage, you wouldnt happen to have any documentation/statistics/proof to validate this claim would you? Im curious because it sure seems quite the opposite. Especially in the last 10 years.

No, because unlike you, I have come to accept the fact that the Cubs have a bigger fan-base, and therefore are going to get more news coverage. That's life. Unlike you, I have decided not to waste my time starting a jealous rage campaign with apparently made-up numbers.

[Hangar18]

No, because unlike you, I have come to accept the fact that the Cubs have a bigger fan-base,

 

and therefore are going to get more news coverage.

 

That's life. Unlike you, I have decided not to waste my time starting a jealous rage campaign with apparently made-up numbers.

 

 

Classic Chicken Vs. Egg. If they do have a bigger fanbase, how did they get that? Was it perhaps

more media coverage that led to this? My numbers arent made up. For any given day, from 2002 til now, you can freely look up my numbers and see that they arent made up. To make that assumption is erroneous. The media previously told us finally in 98 that the reason the Cubs got more "coverage/stories" was because they were "winning". Well in 99 those rules went out the window, same for 2000, 01, 02 03, 04, 05. We were told if the SOX started "winning", we'd see the Extra Coverage. We arent seeing that. Do you think the SOX are getting the Same extra coverage as the 03 adn 04 Cubs got? hell no theyre arent. Im simply pointing that out. If you dont like the numbers, keep your own count and disprove me then. Id be happy to be disproven.

 

You might be right. Maybe the Media is heavily slanted towards the SOX and the SOX are the ones dominating in stories in both papers. I dont see any proof of your assertions though. So Im going to respectfully disagree with you. My not counting a story about how great the Tigers are doesnt make all of my numbers wrong. Again, prove me wrong, and show me different numbers. I wont be mad.

Unlike other sites, I'll simply look at your numbers and we'll discuss them

[Kid Gleason]

I don't get why this bothers some people that Hangar does this. If his doing this is a "black eye" on fans, or an example of Sox fans being whiners, I would guess that not everybody is going to use him as an example, as with any fanbase, you get a person running all sorts of numbers. In films, you have people crunching box office numbers, budget numbers, catering meal numbers, whatever. It's a part of fandom, all fandom.

 

I also like the "get a hobby" argument for him. It would seem to me that he has one, and is displaying it every day.

[Hangar18]

I don't get why this bothers some people that Hangar does this. If his doing this is a "black eye" on fans, or an example of Sox fans being whiners

 

There are a number of folks over at the Trib & SunTimes who arent happy that Ive busted them out every day like this. Numbers dont lie, and have been pretty consistent (save for a Tiger story here and there)

The only people Ive ever seen get this upset with my media watches have been:

Cub fans (they say they deserve the extra attention, because theyre the most loyal),

Media types over at the Trib & SunTimes (they say im skewing the numbers to make them look bad, but when I point the numbers to them, they go silent)

this guy I know Mike who says SOX fans pointing this out means SOX fans arent paying attention to their team (I was the game last nite, even went to Anaheim to see them),

even this guy West, who thinks it makes Sox fans "embarrassing".

These people are mad, but guess what, the media is exposed every day, and dont think they dont come to sites like this one to check out whats going on. Anyone catch Boers & Bernstein talking about the lack of respect the SOX get in their own town a while back?

[Guest JimH]

We were told if the SOX started "winning", we'd see the Extra Coverage. We arent seeing that. Do you think the SOX are getting the Same extra coverage as the 03 adn 04 Cubs got? hell no theyre arent. Im simply pointing that out.

 

You're simply pointing out your biases yet again.

 

The Sox had more coverage last October and they've had more coverage this year than ever before.

 

The difference is that I define "more" as an upswing in White Sox coverage vs. White Sox coverage in the past.

 

You on the other hand insist on comparing how much coverage the White Sox get in relation to the Cubs.

This is called one-upmanship mentality. You won't ever be happy until the White Sox continually get more coverage than the Cubs. Prepare yourself to never be happy.

[Steff]

There are a number of folks over at the Trib & SunTimes who arent happy that Ive busted them out every day like this. Numbers dont lie, and have been pretty consistent (save for a Tiger story here and there)

The only people Ive ever seen get this upset with my media watches have been:

Cub fans (they say they deserve the extra attention, because theyre the most loyal),

Media types over at the Trib & SunTimes (they say im skewing the numbers to make them look bad, but when I point the numbers to them, they go silent)

this guy I know Mike who says SOX fans pointing this out means SOX fans arent paying attention to their team (I was the game last nite, even went to Anaheim to see them),

even this guy West, who thinks it makes Sox fans "embarrassing".

These people are mad, but guess what, the media is exposed every day, and dont think they dont come to sites like this one to check out whats going on. Anyone catch Boers & Bernstein talking about the lack of respect the SOX get in their own town a while back?

 

 

 

You sure do have some nerve talking s*** after all Mike has done for you over the past few years.

[Hangar18]

The Sox had more coverage last October ...........

 

and they've had more coverage this year than ever before.

 

 

The SOX had more coverage than the Cubs last October because the

CUBS WERENT PLAYING. Thats a no-brainer and they'd better get more coverage.

 

"....and theyve had more coverage this year than ever before"

Actually, no they havnt. They are basicall about the SAME as LAST SEASON! and the Season before that.

In fact, if you look at my totals from previous years, the only thing thats changed as far as Media Coverage for the SOX goes, is that the Cubs dont have as DOMINATING a lead on the SOX as previously before.

So in other words, the Cubs are the ones who dont have as many stories as in previous years, yet still

LEAD the White Sox. Take that for however you want to take it .............thats why Ive kept track of it.

[Hangar18]

You sure do have some nerve talking s*** after all Mike has done for you over the past few years.

 

 

Were not talking about the same "mike". This is a guy my company works with .............

[Hangar18]

You on the other hand insist on comparing how much coverage the White Sox get in relation to the Cubs.

This is called one-upmanship mentality. You won't ever be happy until the White Sox continually get more coverage than the Cubs. Prepare yourself to never be happy.

 

 

I have to make my comparisons in relation to that other team because:

A: both play in the same city

B: entire basis of my argument is that the Chicago Media unfairly favors one team over the other,

and it has nothing to do with Won/Loss record. Hell, if thats the case, that team SHOULDNT HAVE ANY COVERAGE seeing how miserable that franchise has been for the better part of a century. That media outlet was immediately questioned back in 1981 if they could "fairly" cover both teams (seeing that they are in competition with each other) and they resoundingly said YES WE CAN, we are a newspaper dedicated to reporting the news, and gave us some mumbo-jumbo about Newspaper Integrity and a Reporters Oath.

 

I'll be happy when the SOX and their fanbase get the respect they've unfairly been denied for so long a time.

Im happy when the SOX win, trust me and anyone next to me at a game. Im very unhappy when Im chatting with people from other cities, and having to constantly argue the PERCEPTION people have of the SOX, the Park, its Fans, and the area. Im just showing everyone that the Trib has had motive for their actions; to openly promote their product at expense of the other product

 

Forgive me for sounding a bit biased myself, but dang, I like the SOX very much, and someone needs speak out, might as well be me

[Kalapse]

Hasn't it been proven that the egg came before the chicken? I swear I read that somewhere.

[Guest JimH]

The SOX had more coverage than the Cubs last October because the

CUBS WERENT PLAYING. Thats a no-brainer and they'd better get more coverage.

 

"....and theyve had more coverage this year than ever before"

Actually, no they havnt. They are basicall about the SAME as LAST SEASON! and the Season before that.

In fact, if you look at my totals from previous years, the only thing thats changed as far as Media Coverage for the SOX goes, is that the Cubs dont have as DOMINATING a lead on the SOX as previously before.

So in other words, the Cubs are the ones who dont have as many stories as in previous years, yet still

LEAD the White Sox. Take that for however you want to take it .............thats why Ive kept track of it.

 

Let me take it slowly so maybe you understand.

 

If you look at all media, there is more coverage of the White Sox this year than ever before.

 

You can spin your numbers any way you want to, but simply counting #'s of newspaper stories doesn't tell the whole story, all it tells is your personal version, i.e. the way you want to spin it.

 

Again, I am not comparing it to Cubs coverage. There are two teams, both will get covered, sometimes one team will get more, sometimes the other. Really ... you need to put this chip on the shoulder to bed.

 

I'll be happy when the SOX and their fanbase get the respect they've unfairly been denied for so long a time.

Im very unhappy when Im chatting with people from other cities, and having to constantly argue the PERCEPTION people have of the SOX, the Park, its Fans, and the area. Im just showing everyone that the Trib has had motive for their actions; to openly promote their product at expense of the other product

 

Forgive me for sounding a bit biased myself, but dang, I like the SOX very much, and someone needs speak out, might as well be me

 

Simply your opinion. I have run into many people in other cities who know and love the U.S. Cellular experience. Further, I feel quite respected as a Sox fan, I have no inferiority complex about it. It isn't about ranting, it's about taking the positive approach and showing people the park, the restaurants around the park, etc. and they become believers. Arguing the perception doesn't work, people usually walk away and say "see, White Sox fans are nuts".

 

As for the Tribune, their motive is to sell newspapers. That's it. They sell newspapers by having something for everyone, and giving their readers what they want.

[greasywheels121]

Hasn't it been proven that the egg came before the chicken? I swear I read that somewhere.

 

Haha, I actually just saw an article on that.

[Hangar18]

You're simply pointing out your biases yet again.

 

The Sox had more coverage last October and they've had more coverage this year than ever before.

 

The difference is that I define "more" as an upswing in White Sox coverage vs. White Sox coverage in the past.

 

You on the other hand insist on comparing how much coverage the White Sox get in relation to the Cubs.

This is called one-upmanship mentality. You won't ever be happy until the White Sox continually get more coverage than the Cubs. Prepare yourself to never be happy.

 

 

No where in your post do you infer "all Media". My watches are obviously the 2 major newspapers in Chicago. This isnt a TV watch or Radio Watch (though I do comment on that too)

All you said was "The SOX had more coverage last October and they've had more coverage this year than ever before". Since were talking about my newspaper coverage, I can only assume your talking about newspaper coverage from last year.

[zach61]

No where in your post do you infer "all Media". My watches are obviously the 2 major newspapers in Chicago. This isnt a TV watch or Radio Watch (though I do comment on that too)

All you said was "The SOX had more coverage last October and they've had more coverage this year than ever before". Since were talking about my newspaper coverage, I can only assume your talking about newspaper coverage from last year.

 

So as I said in another post somewhere in this pile of crap, start over this Monday(6-12-06) and post the titles of the articles that you are counting and start from zero again. We can then see how accurate you are counting then. We have no idea what you counted in the past and since someone proved your count was wrong already, your totals cannot be trusted. This will actually help the times and trib sell more papers because we will be checking them to see if you are accurate in your counts. So I have to congratulate you on doing the opposite of what you tried to do and that is to help them sell more papers no matter what they put in them.

[Buehrle>Wood]

Classic Chicken Vs. Egg. If they do have a bigger fanbase, how did they get that?

 

I'm pretty sure it had something to do with the national TV deal they signed with WGN.

[zach23]

I get the Southtown and in today's paper there were 3 Sox Stories and only 1 on the Cubs.

I jog around my subdivision in the morning and today out of the houses that had papers in the driveway, 25 had the Southtown, 14 had the Tribune and 10 had the Sun-Times. Then there were 4 that had other papers like the WSJ.

So by my numbers, more people read the Southtown and the Southtown is heavily pro-Sox, so therefore the media favors the Sox greatly.

 

My random sampling should count to you since I remember when you did a poll of fans in the Metrodome asking them if the Sox were a big market team or small market. You then used those numbers as "proof" of your point that the Sox were cheap.

[Hangar18]

I get the Southtown and in today's paper there were 3 Sox Stories and only 1 on the Cubs.

I jog around my subdivision in the morning and today out of the houses that had papers in the driveway, 25 had the Southtown, 14 had the Tribune and 10 had the Sun-Times. Then there were 4 that had other papers like the WSJ.

So by my numbers, more people read the Southtown and the Southtown is heavily pro-Sox, so therefore the media favors the Sox greatly.

 

My random sampling should count to you since I remember when you did a poll of fans in the Metrodome asking them if the Sox were a big market team or small market. You then used those numbers as "proof" of your point that the Sox were cheap.

 

 

the Southtown is considered a suburban newspaper. Their coverage is indeed FAIR and BALANCED.

What subdivision would this be? the South Suburbs? Im comparing the Chicago Newspapers. On a side note, Would you agree the Tribune has far more CLOUT than the Southtown?

Is the Southtown heavily "pro-Sox" simply because the LOVE the SOX or because the SOX are a better team/just won the World Series?

 

My Metrodome sampling came from the White Sox referring to themselves a while back as a "small-market" team. I begged to differ and asked Twin fans, who can definitely call themselves a "small-market" team,

if they considered Chicago a "small market" or a "big market". 100% said Big. And they would be right.

Chicago is much bigger than Minneapolis.

[Guest JimH]

No where in your post do you infer "all Media". My watches are obviously the 2 major newspapers in Chicago. This isnt a TV watch or Radio Watch (though I do comment on that too)

All you said was "The SOX had more coverage last October and they've had more coverage this year than ever before". Since were talking about my newspaper coverage, I can only assume your talking about newspaper coverage from last year.

 

Oh.

 

So you exclude certain types of media, it's just the select two newspapers you pick.

 

But when you discuss this supposed bias, you use the word media.

 

So you're saying you're wrong when you say there's a media bias against the White Sox? And that it's just the Trib and Sun Times? But then again, you say you've proven there is a media bias?

 

I agree with zach, I think you should start totally over, because all of your numbers seem either skewed, rife with your personal interpretation, or placed in the wrong numeric column.

 

In summary, you're proven nothing, other than there's a gigantic chip on your shoulder about the White Sox supposedly being slighted ... in the media, no wait, it's just the Sun Times, oops no it's the Tribune, but only if the Cubs are playing ... etc. etc. etc.

 

 

 

the Southtown is considered a suburban newspaper. Their coverage is indeed FAIR and BALANCED.

 

They share resources with the Sun Times, including sharing many stories.

 

But they are fair and balanced but somehow the Sun Times isn't?