Carl Crawford

[Rowand44]

Did anyone think Crawford might be available before now?

 

Besides, KW has been decidedly silent about alot of things he likes since the blown Omar Vizquel deal...

 

Did you see Thome coming?

 

I don't think he had to worry so much about keeping Mack and Cintron on the down low....

Crawford's name has been brought up for a while now, so yes, some people have thought that he's been available. We still don't actually know if TB is shopping him or not. As far as Thome, he was one of the hottest rumors last offseason, I don't think it was really a shock to anyone to see Jim get traded here. Aaron for Jim was talked about a ton.

[iamshack]

Crawford's name has been brought up for a while now, so yes, some people have thought that he's been available. We still don't actually know if TB is shopping him or not. As far as Thome, he was one of the hottest rumors last offseason, I don't think it was really a shock to anyone to see Jim get traded here. Aaron for Jim was talked about a ton.

 

It was? I must have been in Bears mode by then, because it came out of nowhere to me. I remember thinking Aarom may be gone maybe 3 days before it happened....not much before that.

 

As for CC's availability, it was rumored that he was available about a month ago, in which time Kenny has not said a word about anyone. And I really don't think he would. If CC does actually become available this offseason, I wouldn't put it anywhere near out of the realm of possibilities that he would become our left fielder. I guess I would just put it this way- if he were to be traded, I would think we would be 1 of 5 teams who would have the best shot at acquiring him.

 

Did we know Kenny had a deal to get Delgado in 04'? He hadn't said a word about him.

Edited July 19, 2006 by iamshack

[gojimthome]

and than you will be stuck with Crawford. Which isnt really a bad thing although with a crowded OF they got the longer the wait the worse.

 

Stuck with Crawford. Darn.

 

Were I Tampa Bay, Crawford would be the toughest guy to get from me. Hollins/Gomes/Dukes would all be cheaper (ok, Hollins would be about free). Crawford, Baldelli, Young, Longoria, Orvella, Upton (anywhere but at short), and Kazmir would be the nucleus of the team I'd build...For the purpose of winning in 2008.

 

I really can't figure out why there are Crawford rumors. Why the hell would they move him? He's Mr. SuperTeamBuildingBlock.

Edited July 19, 2006 by Contreras' Crew

[WCSox]

I really can't figure out why there are Crawford rumors. Why the hell would they move him? He's Mr. SuperTeamBuildingBlock.

 

No kidding. If the D-Rays considered the Angels' offer of Ervin Santana (young, cheap, 11-3, 3.88 ERA, 1.16 WHIP) a "low-ball" offer, they're obviously not going to move him unless another GM is willing to over-pay.

 

So, no, KW isn't going to trade for Crawford.

Edited July 19, 2006 by WCSox

[iamshack]

No kidding. If the D-Rays considered the Angels' offer of Ervin Santana (young, cheap, 11-3, 3.88 ERA, 1.16 WHIP) a "low-ball" offer, they're obviously not going to move him unless another GM is willing to over-pay.

 

So, no, KW isn't going to trade for Crawford.

 

Yeah, because we all know Kenny refuses to "overpay."

[WCSox]

Yeah, because we all know Kenny refuses to "overpay."

 

Kenny's not going to trade BMac, Anderson, Fields, and a couple of other minor-leaguers for another outfielder when our current problem is pitching, not run production or defense.

[iamshack]

Kenny's not going to trade BMac, Anderson, Fields, and a couple of other minor-leaguers for another outfielder when our current problem is pitching, not run production or defense.

 

I never advocated dealing BMac or Anderson.

 

I said deal Garcia for young pitching, and combine that with Fields (who we wouldn't need were we to acquire Crawford), and possibly one of our better pitching prospects (not BMac), and I think you have them listening closely.

Edited July 19, 2006 by iamshack

[WCSox]

I never advocated dealing BMac or Anderson.

 

I said deal Garcia for young pitching, and combine that with Fields (who we wouldn't need were we to acquire Crawford), and possibly one of our better pitching prospects (not BMac), and I think you have them listening closely.

 

(1) B-Mac would be needed to acquire Crawford. TB will settle for nothing less than a young, cheap pitcher with a tremendous amount of upside. The fact that they rejected Ervin Santana speaks volumes. Since our pitching prospects aren't exactly stellar right now, Fields would probably have to be included in the deal as well.

 

(2) Garcia is worth crap at this point and we're not going to get any decent prospects for him. And we'd probably have to eat part of his salary as well.

[iamshack]

(1) B-Mac would be needed to acquire Crawford. TB will settle for nothing less than a young, cheap pitcher with a tremendous amount of upside. The fact that they rejected Ervin Santana speaks volumes. Since our pitching prospects aren't exactly stellar right now, Fields would probably have to be included in the deal as well.

 

(2) Garcia is worth crap at this point and we're not going to get any decent prospects for him. And we'd probably have to eat part of his salary as well.

 

They didn't reject Santana because he wasn't good enough. They rejected the deal because they wanted a top-flight prospect to go along with it, and Stoneman wouldn't do it.

[WCSox]

They didn't reject Santana because he wasn't good enough. They rejected the deal because they wanted a top-flight prospect to go along with it, and Stoneman wouldn't do it.

 

And given that Santana has produced more in the majors than B-Mac and is equally cheap, the D-Rays would definitely want another "top-flight" prospect to go along with him... and probably a second prospect as well (or possibly Anderson). Given that our only "top-flight" prospect is Fields, he'd definitely be involved in the deal.

 

And since there's almost no way in hell that KW would trade B-Mac, the Crawford deal ain't gonna happen.

[iamshack]

And given that Santana has produced more in the majors than B-Mac and is equally cheap, the D-Rays would definitely want another "top-flight" prospect to go along with him... and probably a second prospect as well (or possibly Anderson). Given that our only "top-flight" prospect is Fields, he'd definitely be involved in the deal.

 

And since there's almost no way in hell that KW would trade B-Mac, the Crawford deal ain't gonna happen.

 

IMHO,

 

I don't think it is imperative that they get Brandon though.

 

I would think if you could get Heilman and Humber from the Mets for Garcia, they would take them both, along with Fields, plus another one of our pitching prospects (Phillips?).

 

Obviously, this probably won't happen. But not because it would require BMac.

[gojimthome]

I would think if you could get Heilman and Humber from the Mets for Garcia

 

I would think if you could get Heilman and Humber from the Mets for Garcia that Santa Claus was involved and we were very good boys and girls.

[WCSox]

IMHO,

 

I don't think it is imperative that they get Brandon though.

 

I would think if you could get Heilman and Humber from the Mets for Garcia, they would take them both, along with Fields, plus another one of our pitching prospects (Phillips?).

 

Obviously, this probably won't happen. But not because it would require BMac.

 

The D-Rays want young, inexpensive, quality players or prospects. If the rejected the straight-up deal for Ervin Santana because they wanted the Angels' best young prospect as well, they're going to want the best two young players that the Sox have. That would be McCarthy and either Fields or Anderson. If B-Mac isn't involved in the deal, you can forget about it.

 

And the Mets aren't going to want Garcia... not with the way that he's been pitching this season and not with the $14+ million left on his contract.

[iamshack]

I would think if you could get Heilman and Humber from the Mets for Garcia that Santa Claus was involved and we were very good boys and girls.

 

Well,

We have been very good...

 

But honestly, it isn't that much of a stretch. Omar, if he doesn't want to pitch Steve Trachsel as his third pitcher in the postseason, has to go get someone. The options may very well only be Garcia, Livan Hernandez, Rodrigo Lopez, or Mark Redman.

 

Livan is probably the only other guy of those you might trust in the postseason and he is having an even worse year than Freddy. Additionally, Bowden is said to be demanding Pelphrey or Milledge for him. Faced with that decision, dealing Heilman and Humber seems to be the better alternative.

 

Not saying it would happen. Just saying I think it could.

[Dick Allen]

Well,

We have been very good...

 

But honestly, it isn't that much of a stretch. Omar, if he doesn't want to pitch Steve Trachsel as his third pitcher in the postseason, has to go get someone. The options may very well only be Garcia, Livan Hernandez, Rodrigo Lopez, or Mark Redman.

 

Livan is probably the only other guy of those you might trust in the postseason and he is having an even worse year than Freddy. Additionally, Bowden is said to be demanding Pelphrey or Milledge for him. Faced with that decision, dealing Heilman and Humber seems to be the better alternative.

 

Not saying it would happen. Just saying I think it could.

Trachsel has won his last 7 starts. Why would Minaya overpay for a guy not pitching nearly as well to bump him back in their playoff rotation?

[iamshack]

Trachsel has won his last 7 starts. Why would Minaya overpay for a guy not pitching nearly as well to bump him back in their playoff rotation?

 

Look more closely at Trachsel's numbers and tell me if you expect him to continue winning....

 

If you are all going to rip on Freddy with his numbers, check out Trachsel's in a pitcher's park in the national league. He's doing it with smoke and mirrors right now.

 

You want to put HIM up against the White Sox, Yankees, Red Sox, or Tigers?

Edited July 19, 2006 by iamshack

[Dick Allen]

Look more closely at Trachsel's numbers and tell me if you expect him to continue winning....

 

If you are all going to rip on Freddy with his numbers, check out Trachsel's in a pitcher's park in the national league. He's doing it with smoke and mirrors right now.

 

You want to put HIM up against the White Sox, Yankees, Red Sox, or Tigers?

We've seen Freddy against the Red Sox and Yankees. I wouldn't mind seeing him against the White Sox. I think its not a lock that Freddy outperforms Trachsel, so I see absolutely no reason Minaya would want to overpay for mediocrity.

[ZoomSlowik]

We've seen Freddy against the Red Sox and Yankees. I wouldn't mind seeing him against the White Sox. I think its not a lock that Freddy outperforms Trachsel, so I see absolutely no reason Minaya would want to overpay for mediocrity.

 

I would say it's pretty much a lock if he went to the Mets. Trachsel has been brutal. His ERA is a little better, but his WHIP is horrendous. If you moved Freddy from the Cell to Shea, he'd probably shave off at least half a run, probably a little more. There are a lot of mediocre pitchers doing pretty well in the NL.

 

That doesn't mean that they'd give up two top prospects, but he's still better than what they have, especially when you consider that he's their THIRD starter.

Edited July 19, 2006 by ZoomSlowik

[Jordan4life_2007]

We've seen Freddy against the Red Sox and Yankees. I wouldn't mind seeing him against the White Sox. I think its not a lock that Freddy outperforms Trachsel, so I see absolutely no reason Minaya would want to overpay for mediocrity.

 

You do realize Freddy has dominated NL teams this year, right? He would significantly upgrade the Mets' rotation.

[iamshack]

We've seen Freddy against the Red Sox and Yankees. I wouldn't mind seeing him against the White Sox. I think its not a lock that Freddy outperforms Trachsel, so I see absolutely no reason Minaya would want to overpay for mediocrity.

 

When you say "mediocrity" you have to keep in mind what else is available right now. The only really solid pitcher that has been rumored to be available at all is Zito, and I doubt that at this point since Harden is down and Loaiza has been bad. The Mets have a comfortable lead in the East. They will probably win the East, barring some huge run by the Braves. I don't know about you, but from what I understand, New Yorkers don't strike me as the type to be satisfied with postseason "appearances."

 

I'm not advocating Minyana do anything ridiculously stupid. With this, he keeps Milledge and Pelfrey, and acquires a pitcher who has won big games before and seemingly would not shrivel under the NY spotlight. He has a 6-2 postseason record with a 3.31 ERA.

 

Livan has a postseason record of 6-2 with a 3.99 ERA, but all the good results came 97' and 2000'. In 2002, he was horrible.

 

Trachsel has no postseason experience.

[WCSox]

I would say it's pretty much a lock if he went to the Mets. Trachsel has been brutal. His ERA is a little better, but his WHIP is horrendous. If you moved Freddy from the Cell to Shea, he'd probably shave off at least half a run, probably a little more. There are a lot of mediocre pitchers doing pretty well in the NL.

 

That doesn't mean that they'd give up two top prospects, but he's still better than what they have, especially when you consider that he's their THIRD starter.

 

Even if Freddy is a slight improvement of Trachsel, the prospects to get Freddy plus the $14 million or so left on his contract would preclude the deal. If Minaya has to give up something to get a better pitcher, he's going to need a significant improvement over Trachsel in return, not just a minor one.

[Dick Allen]

When you say "mediocrity" you have to keep in mind what else is available right now. The only really solid pitcher that has been rumored to be available at all is Zito, and I doubt that at this point since Harden is down and Loaiza has been bad. The Mets have a comfortable lead in the East. They will probably win the East, barring some huge run by the Braves. I don't know about you, but from what I understand, New Yorkers don't strike me as the type to be satisfied with postseason "appearances."

 

I'm not advocating Minyana do anything ridiculously stupid. With this, he keeps Milledge and Pelfrey, and acquires a pitcher who has won big games before and seemingly would not shrivel under the NY spotlight. He has a 6-2 postseason record with a 3.31 ERA.

 

Livan has a postseason record of 6-2 with a 3.99 ERA, but all the good results came 97' and 2000'. In 2002, he was horrible.

 

Trachsel has no postseason experience.

Before last season, most of the White Sox staff had very little to no post season experience. Good pitchers, especially power pitchers do well in the postseason. Freddy is not a very good pitcher right now, and no way you can say he's a power pitcher at this point. You are saying Hernandez was good in 97 and 2000 but horrible in 2002. Freddy was good in the 2005 post season, but easily could be horrible in 2006. I would love for the Sox to trade Freddy, I just don't think they could get the package a lot here seem to think. I really doubt Minaya would weaken his bullpen too much to acquire a guy who is not that big of upgrade, and may not even be an upgrade.

[ZoomSlowik]

Even if Freddy is a slight improvement of Trachsel, the prospects to get Freddy plus the $14 million or so left on his contract would preclude the deal. If Minaya has to give up something to get a better pitcher, he's going to need a significant improvement over Trachsel in return, not just a minor one.

 

This is the Mets we're talking about, money isn't an issue for them. If it were someone like the Reds that might matter, but the Mets are anything but cheap right now. I would argue that Garcia is still a lot better than Trachsel anyways, that guy sucks big time. At least Freddy is still semi-competent, especially if he moves to the NL and pitches half his game in Shea.

[iamshack]

Even if Freddy is a slight improvement of Trachsel, the prospects to get Freddy plus the $14 million or so left on his contract would preclude the deal. If Minaya has to give up something to get a better pitcher, he's going to need a significant improvement over Trachsel in return, not just a minor one.

 

The money is not even an issue. Their new television station has amazing ratings right now, and their attendance is outstanding. Michael Wilpon is not exactly known the be stingy either.

 

They can take on Freddy's salary without blinkiing at this point.

 

Before last season, most of the White Sox staff had very little to no post season experience. Good pitchers, especially power pitchers do well in the postseason. Freddy is not a very good pitcher right now, and no way you can say he's a power pitcher at this point. You are saying Hernandez was good in 97 and 2000 but horrible in 2002. Freddy was good in the 2005 post season, but easily could be horrible in 2006. I would love for the Sox to trade Freddy, I just don't think they could get the package a lot here seem to think. I really doubt Minaya would weaken his bullpen too much to acquire a guy who is not that big of upgrade, and may not even be an upgrade.

 

The difference is we had two starters who were young all-stars last season, and Freddy, who had postseason experience, and Jose who won his last 9 games heading into the postseason. The rotation was also leading the league in wins, ERA, and quality starts for nearly the entire year.

 

Even so, Kenny STILL had a deal in place to get Burnett, but he would not agree to an extension here in Chicago.

 

DA, picture yourself as a Mets fan right now. You have an amazing lineup. Your pitching staff is older than s***, injured, and only two of them are good for much of anything. Would you give a flying f*%$ if Minyana went and dealt a middle reliever who the organization refuses to allow to start because he doesn't have enough plus pitches, and a guy coming off TJ surgery for a proven postseason commodity?

 

I can't speak for you, of course. But if it were me, I would be screaming for Minyana to do it in heartbeat.

[WCSox]

The money is not even an issue. Their new television station has amazing ratings right now, and their attendance is outstanding. Michael Wilpon is not exactly known the be stingy either.

 

They can take on Freddy's salary without blinkiing at this point.

 

Even if the money isn't an issue, Freddy isn't much of an improvement of Trachsel. If Minaya has to give up something in return, he's going to do it for a guy that's going to SIGNIFICANTLY improve his staff. Freddy isn't that guy. If I were Minaya, I'd be talking to SF about Schmidt.