Carl Crawford

[iamshack]

Even if the money isn't an issue, Freddy isn't much of an improvement of Trachsel. If Minaya has to give up something in return, he's going to do it for a guy that's going to SIGNIFICANTLY improve his staff. Freddy isn't that guy. If I were Minaya, I'd be talking to SF about Schmidt.

 

And what would you have said about Jason Schmidt last year, when he was struggling badly, his velocity was down, and he was in a contract situation very similar to Garcia's now?

 

Seems to me that I recall a certain GM from Chicago looking at him...

 

Even if the money isn't an issue, Freddy isn't much of an improvement of Trachsel. If Minaya has to give up something in return, he's going to do it for a guy that's going to SIGNIFICANTLY improve his staff. Freddy isn't that guy. If I were Minaya, I'd be talking to SF about Schmidt.

 

And I don't know where you get off saying Garcia isn't a SIGNIFICANT upgrade over Steve Trachsel.

 

Trachsel is 128-139 in his career with a 4.24 ERA, all in the National League, save for the year 2000.

 

Meanwhile, Freddy is 109-68 in his career with a 4.02 ERA, all in the American League.

 

Not a significant upgrade my ass.

Edited July 19, 2006 by iamshack

[WCSox]

And what would you have said about Jason Schmidt last year, when he was struggling badly, his velocity was down, and he was in a contract situation very similar to Garcia's now?

 

Seems to me that I recall a certain GM from Chicago looking at him...

 

Schmidt was injured last season. Freddy doesn't have an injury to excuse his 5 mph drop-off in velocity.

 

The comparison is ridiculous anyway. The Mets need a quality starter RIGHT NOW. They can't wait for Freddy's velocity to return next season... and there's no evidence that it will.

 

And I don't know where you get off saying Garcia isn't a SIGNIFICANT upgrade over Steve Trachsel.

 

Trachsel is 128-139 in his career with a 4.24 ERA, all in the National League, save for the year 2000.

 

Meanwhile, Freddy is 109-68 in his career with a 4.02 ERA, all in the American League.

 

Not a significant upgrade my ass.

 

That arugment is beyond stupid. Their career numbers have nothing to do with how they're pitching this season.

Edited July 19, 2006 by WCSox

[gojimthome]

And I don't know where you get off saying Garcia isn't a SIGNIFICANT upgrade over Steve Trachsel.

 

Trachsel is 128-139 in his career with a 4.24 ERA, all in the National League, save for the year 2000.

 

Meanwhile, Freddy is 109-68 in his career with a 4.02 ERA, all in the American League.

 

Not a significant upgrade my ass.

 

Greg Maddux is 325-199 with a 3.07 ERA for his career.

 

Jose Contreras is 44-19 with a 4.11 ERA for his career.

 

I wonder if they'd swap with us if we threw in Fields?

[iamshack]

Schmidt was injured last season. Freddy doesn't have an injury to excuse his 5 mph drop-off in velocity.

 

The comparison is ridiculous anyway. The Mets need a quality starter RIGHT NOW. They can't wait for Freddy's velocity to return next season... and there's no evidence that it will.

 

How do you know that Freddy isn't injured?

 

Then answer this question for me....WHERE ON EARTH ARE THEY GETTING THAT QUALITY STARTER without giving up Milledge AND/OR Pelfrey?

 

 

Greg Maddux is 325-199 with a 3.07 ERA for his career.

 

Jose Contreras is 44-19 with a 4.11 ERA for his career.

 

I wonder if they'd swap with us if we threw in Fields?

 

What the hell is the point of this post? I know you are being sarcastic, but I have no f'ing clue what you are even suggesting. Greg Maddux has been a hell of a pitcher in this league, dude. And Jose has been as well.

 

WTF are you even saying?

[WCSox]

How do you know that Freddy isn't injured?

 

If he is, that another reason that Minaya won't want him. The Mets are trying to win NOW, not next season.

 

Then answer this question for me....WHERE ON EARTH ARE THEY GETTING THAT QUALITY STARTER without giving up Milledge AND/OR Pelfrey?

 

They're not. You act like quality starters grow on trees or something.

[iamshack]

If he is, that another reason that Minaya won't want him. The Mets are trying to win NOW, not next season.

They're not. You act like quality starters grow on trees or something.

 

Teams wanted Schmidt last year. That is the point. Teams are desperate to improve their pitching at the break.

 

How the hell are the Mets supposed to win now, if they don't trade for any starting pitching? That rotation they have now will not get them out of the NL come October.

[gojimthome]

How do you know that Freddy isn't injured?

 

Then answer this question for me....WHERE ON EARTH ARE THEY GETTING THAT QUALITY STARTER without giving up Milledge AND/OR Pelfrey?

What the hell is the point of this post? I know you are being sarcastic, but I have no f'ing clue what you are even suggesting. Greg Maddux has been a hell of a pitcher in this league, dude. And Jose has been as well.

 

WTF are you even saying?

 

My point is that your post citing the two pitchers' historical records as a valid indicator of their curretn ability/value is just plain dumb.

 

YOUR post had no point, unless your point is that Freddy is an upgrade NOW because he was better IN THE PAST.

[iamshack]

My point is that your post citing the two pitchers' historical records as a valid indicator of their curretn ability/value is just plain dumb.

 

YOUR post had no point, unless your point is that Freddy is an upgrade NOW because he was better IN THE PAST.

 

Hint: When you use satire, you are supposed to somehow parallel what you are satirizing.

 

Your post did not even come close to doing so.

 

Are you suggesting that Trachsel is better than Garcia right now, if EVER?

[WCSox]

Teams wanted Schmidt last year. That is the point. Teams are desperate to improve their pitching at the break.

 

The key word here is "improve." Freddy isn't much of an improvement of Trachsel and that's why Minaya isn't going to trade for him... especially if he's obligated to pay him another $13-$14 million.

 

How the hell are the Mets supposed to win now, if they don't trade for any starting pitching? That rotation they have now will not get them out of the NL come October.

 

How the hell is Freddy Garcia going to help the Mets win? Nobody with an 88 mph fastball and little command of his offspeed pitches is going to help the Mets in the playoffs. Mets fans should thank God that you're not their GM.

 

I could see the Mets trading for somebody like Vazquez, who can still throw heat and has a good curve and slider to accompany it. Command can be improved, but an aging, worn-out arm can't.

[gojimthome]

Hint: When you use satire, you are supposed to somehow parallel what you are satirizing.

 

Your post did not even come close to doing so.

 

Are you suggesting that Trachsel is better than Garcia right now, if EVER?

 

Yes. Right now, Trachsel is better than Garcia.

 

I used the exact same stats that you did. How on earth can you claim your post makes sense, and that mine dies not? That's a steaming crock.

[iamshack]

The key word here is "improve." Freddy isn't much of an improvement of Trachsel and that's why Minaya isn't going to trade for him... especially if he's obligated to pay him another $13-$14 million.

How the hell is Freddy Garcia going to help the Mets win? Nobody with an 88 mph fastball and little command of his offspeed pitches is going to help the Mets in the playoffs. Mets fans should thank God that you're not their GM.

 

I could see the Mets trading for somebody like Vazquez, who can still throw heat and has a good curve and slider to accompany it. Command can be improved, but an aging, worn-out arm can't.

 

That's a brilliant idea. Trade for the guy with the mental issues and bring him to New York.

That's been tried already, pal.

 

BTW, Freddy was throwing 94 on Sunday. And we know how those Mets are afraid to trade for "aging" arms since they stay away from those guys (Pedro, El Duque, Glavine, Trachsel).

 

Yes. Right now, Trachsel is better than Garcia.

 

I used the exact same stats that you did. How on earth can you claim your post makes sense, and that mine dies not? That's a steaming crock.

 

Trachsel of the worse WHIP, worse OBA, worse k rate, worse bb rate, and worse quality starts?

 

Interesting...

[Kalapse]

That's a brilliant idea. Trade for the guy with the mental issues and bring him to New York.

That's been tried already, pal.

 

BTW, Freddy was throwing 94 on Sunday. And we know how those Mets are afraid to trade for "aging" arms since they stay away from those guys (Pedro, El Duque, Glavine, Trachsel).

He threw 94 a few times later in the game after giving up 6 runs on 86 MPH fastballs for a majority of Sunday. I'm not sure which would be worse, if he actually has the ability to throw 94 but chooses not to or if all of a sudden at the end of some random game he throws 94 a few times but still can't throw anything but still sits at 86.

 

Also, this wasn't the first time that he's popped it in the 90's this year, it seems just at random times throughout the season he's decided to bring the good heat but at all other times he's sitting in the mid to upper 80's. I really don't think Sunday was a sign of anything.

[iamshack]

He threw 94 a few times later in the game after giving up 6 runs on 86 MPH fastballs for a majority of Sunday. I'm not sure which would be worse, if he actually has the ability to throw 94 but chooses not to or if all of a sudden at the end of some random game he throws 94 a few times but still can't throw anything but still sits at 86.

 

Also, this wasn't the first time that he's popped it in the 90's this year, it seems just at random times throughout the season he's decided to bring the good heat but at all other times he's sitting in the mid to upper 80's. I really don't think Sunday was a sign of anything.

 

I wasn't arguing that he was "back." I was arguing that he isn't throwing strictly 88 anymore.

[WCSox]

That's a brilliant idea. Trade for the guy with the mental issues and bring him to New York.

That's been tried already, pal.

 

I'm not your "pal."

 

BTW, Freddy was throwing 94 on Sunday. And we know how those Mets are afraid to trade for "aging" arms since they stay away from those guys (Pedro, El Duque, Glavine, Trachsel).

 

And look how awesome Trachsel and his aging arm are doing. And look at the big bucks that the Mets are paying Trachsel and El Duque. :rolly

 

The comparison of a (supposedly) power pitcher like Freddy to a finesse guy like Glavine and a power-pitcher-turned-finesse-guy-years-ago like Pedro is equally stupid.

 

Oh, and Freddy throws about two or three 94 mph pitches in a start... the rest are in the upper 80s. Nice try, though.

Edited July 19, 2006 by WCSox

[gojimthome]

Trachsel of the worse WHIP, worse OBA, worse k rate, worse bb rate, and worse quality starts?

 

Interesting...

Trachsel who hasn't lost anything off of of his fastball. Trachsel who isn't #4 in one of the worst stats to be #4 in.

 

http://mlb.mlb.com/NASApp/mlb/stats/league...amp;timeFrame=1

[Kalapse]

I wasn't arguing that he was "back." I was arguing that he isn't throwing strictly 88 anymore.

But he is strickly throwing 86-88. All that really matters is where you're sitting at and he's currently sitting at about 86, he's able to pop it at about 90-91 if he reaches back. That whole 94 MPH thing has happened so infrequently this year that I don't think you can count it as anything other than an abberation

[iamshack]

I'm not your "pal."

And look how awesome Trachsel and his aging arm are doing. And look at the big bucks that the Mets are paying Trachsel and El Duque. :rolly

 

The comparison of a (supposedly) power pitcher like Freddy to a finesse guy like Glavine and a power-pitcher-turned-finesse-guy-years-ago like Pedro is equally stupid.

 

Oh, and Freddy throws about two or three 94 mph pitches in a start... the rest are in the upper 80s. Nice try, though.

 

You didn't ace logic class, did you?

 

You implied the Mets don't like "aging" arms with large contracts. And if you don't think guys can have "aging arms" and have rough years and bounce back, See: Tom Glavine, first year with Mets.

 

There was never any comparison to Pedro or Glavine's stuff, or their style of pitching. The point was made to disprove your premise that the Mets had no interest in veteran pitchers.

[Kalapse]

You didn't ace logic class, did you?

Please refrain from using personal attacks.

[witesoxfan]

Yes correct me if im wrong but hasnt wite said some ridiculous stuff in the past as well. Ill give him enough credit that he isnt as ridiculous as Jeckle but I remember some pretty ??? posts where Wite was serious.

 

Hey buddy, I'm still here. No need to talk s*** when I can read everything in plain English.

 

 

About the only crazy thing I can think of that I have said in the past is that Jose Valentin is like the greatest player in baseball history, and the stats back me up on that one too.

 

I

[GoodAsGould]

Hey buddy, I'm still here. No need to talk s*** when I can read everything in plain English.

About the only crazy thing I can think of that I have said in the past is that Jose Valentin is like the greatest player in baseball history, and the stats back me up on that one too.

 

I

 

i confused you with whitesoxfan101 the one who has a name close to mine and the black kid with huge lips as his avatar.

[witesoxfan]

i confused you with whitesoxfan101 the one who has a name close to mine and the black kid with huge lips as his avatar.

 

lol

[gojimthome]

Hey buddy, I'm still here. No need to talk s*** when I can read everything in plain English.

About the only crazy thing I can think of that I have said in the past is that Jose Valentin is like the greatest player in baseball history, and the stats back me up on that one too.

 

I

 

If loving Valenstasche is wrong, I don't want to be right. Has any other ballpayer ever had such rugged good looks?

 

[witesoxfan]

If loving Valenstasche is wrong, I don't want to be right. Has any other ballpayer ever had such rugged good looks?

 

 

Never

 

And he was the best baserunner I ever saw

 

/hawk

[Rowand44]

Never

 

And he was the best baserunner I ever saw

 

/hawk

Until Mackowiak came along.

[beck72]

I'm going to bump this thread a bit. Crawford's name has been mentioned by various teams, Ana in particular as teams look to upgrade this yr at the deadline. The sox may not be able to add the pitching. So why not look to upgrade the defense and offense? With Pods basically needing a platoon and even has been replaced in the field with MAck, a shakeup at the top could let the players know KW and Ozzie are serious. When Pods needs to share time with Pablo Ozuna, its time to upgrade in LF.

 

Plus, Crawford plays with the intangibles Ozzie seems to love--speed, bunting [Carl's regarded as one of the best bunters in the game], stellar defense, avg. Getting Crawford would set the sox offense and defense up for yrs to come. Trading the top prospects in the system makes sense for a 24 yr old with Crawford's talent.

 

TB needs starting pitching. But they also need some power bats. They don't need an ace with Kazmir. They need dependable SP for sure. The key is what would it take to get him. Few teams will part with a young "ace" to get Crawford. Most teams will hold onto those, and would rather deal a bat.

 

The price may be steep--Fields [upton has been tried at 3b, but his power numbers aren't there; also, Fields could DH or play 1b; the key for TB is getting the best hitter available. Fields is one of those and plays a premium position]; Lance Broadway; Haeger; Phillips; and one of either Lucas Harrell or Adam Russell.

 

If the sox unload top prospects, it shoudn't be for rental players. It should be for a guy who fits in with the long term makeup of the club, who can also help in the short term.

 

Pods could be dealt once the Sox acquired Crawford, for a prospect or two. ATL needs both a LFer and a leadoff man, and could be a partner. Langerhans and Thorman aren't cutting it