Big Frank

[rangercal]

Most Everyone thought he was done, including me and I'm as big a Frank Thomas fan as you will find.

 

Definition of "done": 2002 type numbers only with fewer ABs.

 

Who would have put money down before the season started that Frank could do what he's currently doing? Not even Ken Harrelson would take that bet. It's just insane how great he's been over the past 2.5 months and the topper is that the Standing O that he got from the Sox fans appears to have started the whole damned thing.

Call me a liar. Call me a homer. But I knew he could. The man is a freak of nature when healthy. There are a few factors that led me to belive he would come back strong.

 

1) I firmly belived he came back too early last year to help the team. On one leg he hit 12 hr's last year. Imagine what he could do when he can plant his feet . That gives him balance, balance is very important for big guys.

 

2) He may be getting old, but he will have his batting eye for years. That is one thing you don't lose as fast as other tools.

 

3) The guy is still in amazing shape. He has not relied on steroids to keep himself in that way.

 

4) He has played 108 out of 324 possible games the last 2 years. Games and practice that would have been grueling on a player in his mid 30's gave him a chance to not put so much strain on his body.

 

5) Frank Thomas was put into the same sentence as players like Ruth and Williams when I was younger. He is the only first basemen besides Jimmie Fox (32 & 33) to win Back to Back Mvps. He could easily have had 4-5 if he were a media darling like griffey or ripken. Frank Thomas may be the only sox player in your lifetime that was a legitimite contender for triple crown. This is a man who is 6'5 257 lbs and won a batting title. A career .425 obp and .991 OPS is nothing to laugh at. You have a guy who is 8 years older than some of the stars in the game and is still putting better power numbers up (i.e guerrero) My point is. Big Frank is a special player. That is what gets you in the HOF. You just dont give up on players like that.

Edited August 8, 2006 by rangercal

[Jordan4life_2007]

Call me a liar. Call me a homer. But I knew he could. The man is a freak of nature when healthy. There are a few factors that led me to belive he would come back strong.

 

1) I firmly belived he came back too early last year to help the team. On one leg he hit 12 hr's last year. Imagine what he could do when he can plant his feet . That gives him balance, balance is very important for big guys.

 

2) He may be getting old, but he will have his batting eye for years. That is one thing you don't lose as fast as other tools.

 

3) The guy is still in amazing shape. He has not relied on steroids to keep himself in that way.

 

4) He has played 108 out of 324 possible games the last 2 years. Games and practice that would have been grueling on a player in his mid 30's gave him a chance to not put so much strain on his body.

 

5) Frank Thomas was put into the same sentence as players like Ruth and Williams when I was younger. He is the only first basemen besides Jimmie Fox (32 & 33) to win Back to Back Mvps. He could easily have had 4-5 if he were a media darling like griffey or ripken. Frank Thomas may be the only sox player in your lifetime that was a legitimite contender for triple crown. This is a man who is 6'5 257 lbs and won a batting title. A career .425 obp and .991 OPS is nothing to laugh at. You have a guy who is 8 years older than some of the stars in the game and is still putting better power numbers up (i.e guerrero) My point is. Big Frank is a special player. That is what gets you in the HOF. You just dont give up on players like that.

 

Good post. Also, Frank has 3 MVPs. 1993/1994/2000

 

Giambi can go fist himself.

[GoodAsGould]

Good post. Also, Frank has 3 MVPs. 1993/1994/2000

 

Giambi can go fist himself.

 

Giambi can go fist himself all he wants but Frank still only has 2 MVPs.

[retro1983hat]

Where would he play?

[whitesoxfan101]

Ehh I think most people *raises hand* figured Frank could still hit IF he could stay healthy, but most people also *raises hand* thought there was no way in hell Frank could stay this healthy for another season. Great to see him doing well though, like I said I can live with this if he gets to 500 homers and locks a spot in the HOF (although I think he is in already).

[witesoxfan]

Ehh I think most people *raises hand* figured Frank could still hit IF he could stay healthy, but most people also *raises hand* thought there was no way in hell Frank could stay this healthy for another season. Great to see him doing well though, like I said I can live with this if he gets to 500 homers and locks a spot in the HOF (although I think he is in already).

 

there is not a word I disagree with in this post

 

Hopefully the 500 homers assures him of a first ballot selection. He should be a first ballot selection

[Punch and Judy Garland]

I thought we should have kept him but it looks like its worked out for us and him for him to go to Oakland where he is THE MAN in a lineup again. Early in the year it appeared that Thome was vastly superior and even though Rowand isn't hitting well you could actually make an argument that Thome/Anderson vs. Thomas/Rowand is a near wash. Kind of strange it worked out that way

[GoodAsGould]

I thought we should have kept him but it looks like its worked out for us and him for him to go to Oakland where he is THE MAN in a lineup again. Early in the year it appeared that Thome was vastly superior and even though Rowand isn't hitting well you could actually make an argument that Thome/Anderson vs. Thomas/Rowand is a near wash. Kind of strange it worked out that way

 

Im not sure about that... Thome was a pure monster in the first half while Frank was hitting HR's but nothing much else and wasnt even as hitting as many bombs as Thome. During the 2nd half or a little b4 that Thomas has been great but so has Thome and Anderson has started to come around in the 2nd half while Rowand has been slipping. Rowands avg. is down to .255.. his stats are still superior to Anderson's but .255 isnt that good.

[danman31]

I was on board with the Thome move but it's getting to the point where if it's close between the two (as it's getting closer) I would rather have Frank for the simple reason that he's the legacy with the team. It may not make the team better, but it's Frank. When you throw in Rowand to the equation it's pretty debatable.

[CWSGuy406]

I still think it's hilarious that he was pretty much the scapegoat in Chicago for a couple of years, and was even described as a clubhouse cancer. I'm obviously not 'there' every day with Oakland, but the players there seem to love him.

 

This has really been an awesome season for Frank.

[whitesoxfan101]

I was on board with the Thome move but it's getting to the point where if it's close between the two (as it's getting closer) I would rather have Frank for the simple reason that he's the legacy with the team. It may not make the team better, but it's Frank. When you throw in Rowand to the equation it's pretty debatable.

 

I'd agree with you if it were actually that close, but it's not. Thome has 34 (I think) homers and near 90 RBI's with an OPS of near 1.100 while being healthy all year, which as good as Frank has been, blows his ass away (plus remember, Thome is a lefty as well). As for Rowand, he's down to .255 and his offensive numbers are better than Anderson's, but not by all that much. As a matter of fact, Anderson has been a far superior hitter to Rowand the last 6 weeks now, and Anderson is also a better defender *ducks for cover*.

 

The Thome trade itself may not look great one day since we gave up Haigwood and Gio, but the Rowand/Thomas for Thome/Anderson swap in this lineup is the only reason we're not 5 or 6 out of the Wild Card IMO.

[qwerty]

Call me a liar. Call me a homer. But I knew he could. The man is a freak of nature when healthy. There are a few factors that led me to belive he would come back strong.

 

1) I firmly belived he came back too early last year to help the team. On one leg he hit 12 hr's last year. Imagine what he could do when he can plant his feet . That gives him balance, balance is very important for big guys.

 

2) He may be getting old, but he will have his batting eye for years. That is one thing you don't lose as fast as other tools.

 

3) The guy is still in amazing shape. He has not relied on steroids to keep himself in that way.

 

4) He has played 108 out of 324 possible games the last 2 years. Games and practice that would have been grueling on a player in his mid 30's gave him a chance to not put so much strain on his body.

 

5) Frank Thomas was put into the same sentence as players like Ruth and Williams when I was younger. He is the only first basemen besides Jimmie Fox (32 & 33) to win Back to Back Mvps. He could easily have had 4-5 if he were a media darling like griffey or ripken. Frank Thomas may be the only sox player in your lifetime that was a legitimite contender for triple crown. This is a man who is 6'5 257 lbs and won a batting title. A career .425 obp and .991 OPS is nothing to laugh at. You have a guy who is 8 years older than some of the stars in the game and is still putting better power numbers up (i.e guerrero) My point is. Big Frank is a special player. That is what gets you in the HOF. You just dont give up on players like that.

 

Best thing about number two is that he has actually gotten a better eye than this year than the past five years. He has walked as many times this year as he has struck out (53) and has seen 4.32 pitches per plate appearances... which would be the best in his entire career... excluding his first season with less than 200 at-bats.

[Punch and Judy Garland]

I think that we have the better of the trade with performance its just when you factor in the prospects, the money, etc it's really pretty interesting and will be to watch for the next few years. It's a shame though the way people buried Frank

[chitownsportsfan]

People wonder why Billy Beane is the best GM in the game, well with a payroll of peanuts, he once again has the A's in 1st place.

 

A huge part of that is a mostly healthy big Frank, he has put up on OPS of .911 will slugging 25 HR's and getting on base at a .382 clip.

 

The Big Hurt's base salary this year? $500,000.

 

Frank is now only 27 homers away from 500 and will likely end the season around 20 short of 500. Does he have enough left in him to get the number? My guess is yes, one more half season of health should give him around 495 and a role as a spot starter pinch hitter in 2008 should put him over the top. That's a conservative estimate, but it still gets him the 500 and the automatic keys to Cooperstown, should he be willing to put in two more years of work.

 

Frank remains the greatest slugger of the 90's without a hint of steroids standing between him and the record books.

[rangercal]

People wonder why Billy Beane is the best GM in the game, well with a payroll of peanuts, he once again has the A's in 1st place.

 

A huge part of that is a mostly healthy big Frank, he has put up on OPS of .911 will slugging 25 HR's and getting on base at a .382 clip.

 

The Big Hurt's base salary this year? $500,000.

 

Frank is now only 27 homers away from 500 and will likely end the season around 20 short of 500. Does he have enough left in him to get the number? My guess is yes, one more half season of health should give him around 495 and a role as a spot starter pinch hitter in 2008 should put him over the top. That's a conservative estimate, but it still gets him the 500 and the automatic keys to Cooperstown, should he be willing to put in two more years of work.

 

Frank remains the greatest slugger of the 90's without a hint of steroids standing between him and the record books.

This "best gm in the game" you speak of also signed Loiaza to that massive contract. Yes, this is after the white sox did not want him anymore nor the Yankees. He put a 3.77 era last year in the NL puitching in a pitchers park, so let's give him 6 million a year.

[YASNY]

People wonder why Billy Beane is the best GM in the game, well with a payroll of peanuts, he once again has the A's in 1st place.

 

A huge part of that is a mostly healthy big Frank, he has put up on OPS of .911 will slugging 25 HR's and getting on base at a .382 clip.

 

The Big Hurt's base salary this year? $500,000.

 

Frank is now only 27 homers away from 500 and will likely end the season around 20 short of 500. Does he have enough left in him to get the number? My guess is yes, one more half season of health should give him around 495 and a role as a spot starter pinch hitter in 2008 should put him over the top. That's a conservative estimate, but it still gets him the 500 and the automatic keys to Cooperstown, should he be willing to put in two more years of work.

 

Frank remains the greatest slugger of the 90's without a hint of steroids standing between him and the record books.

 

I hope the big guy doesn't break our hearts in the post season.

[whitesoxfan101]

I hope the big guy doesn't break our hearts in the post season.

 

Now THAT would just be wrong....however unless we win the Central, the only way we'd see Oakland in the playoffs is if they win a playoff series, and Billy Beane IS their GM, so that won't happen.

Edited August 15, 2006 by whitesoxfan101

[Jordan4life_2007]

Now THAT would just be wrong....however unless we win the Central, the only way we'd see Oakland in the playoffs is if they win a playoff series, and Billy Beane IS their GM, so that won't happen.

 

What exactly does Billy Beane being their GM have to do with their failures in the postseason? They were up 2-1 on NY in 2000 before losing in 5. They were up 2-0 on NY in 2001 going back to Oakland before choking again. They were up 2-1 on the Twins in 2002 and blew that. They were up 2-1 on the Red Sox in 2003 before, surprise, losing that series. That's more of a reflection on the manager/players than it is Beane.

Edited August 15, 2006 by Jordan4life_2006

[spawn]

Yeah...he's the best GM in baseball, yet how many WS titles does he have? Oh yeah...none.

[chitownsportsfan]

Yeah...he's the best GM in baseball, yet how many WS titles does he have? Oh yeah...none.

 

This is a debate for the offseason, (and god knows we had it last offseason here) but Beane will tell you himself" his s*** doesn't work in the playoffs, the series' are too short.

 

 

As for the Loziza move, he's not been very good, but no GM is perfect, and Beane consistantly wins with a small market payroll.

[GoodAsGould]

This is the first year Beane can take any credit.... all those other playoff teams were thanks to having 3 aces on your pitching staff he never drafted.

[whitesoxfan101]

Beane builds his teams around startin pitching, which is smart. He also values OBP a ton so that he can have cheap offensive players, which isn't too dumb considering his payroll. The reason Beane's teams tend to and will continue to have problems in the postseason is the lack of importance he puts on a strong bullpen and his teams usual lack of slugging percentage. His offense can get people on, but the lack of power won't get them in. They blew their chance at a title in the early 2000's when they had the great pitching AND great power in their prime, but their bullpen was SO bad back then, it was just killer.

[witesoxfan]

This is the first year Beane can take any credit.... all those other playoff teams were thanks to having 3 aces on your pitching staff he never drafted.

Or he drafted all of them, but you were close

 

courtesy Wiki

He then moved into the Athletics front office, becoming an advance scout, and eventually an assistant to then-Athletics GM Sandy Alderson in 1993. In 1997, Alderson stepped down as GM and Beane replaced him.

 

Tim Hudson - 6th round, '97

Mark Mulder - 1st round, '98

Barry Zito - 1st round, '99

 

Sooooooo he can take credit for everything the A's have done in the past 10 years.

 

 

 

Beane builds his teams around startin pitching, which is smart. He also values OBP a ton so that he can have cheap offensive players, which isn't too dumb considering his payroll. The reason Beane's teams tend to and will continue to have problems in the postseason is the lack of importance he puts on a strong bullpen and his teams usual lack of slugging percentage. His offense can get people on, but the lack of power won't get them in. They blew their chance at a title in the early 2000's when they had the great pitching AND great power in their prime, but their bullpen was SO bad back then, it was just killer.

 

He has changed that, as seen by the last two years.

 

A's bullpen - 3.56 ERA, 1.33 WHIP

Calero - 47 IP, 1.17 WHIP, 2.87 ERA

Duchscherer - 38.1 IP, 1.20 WHIP, 3.05 ERA

Street - 57.1 IP, 0.94 WHIP, 2.98 ERA

 

Along with Halsey, Gaudin, Flores, and Saarloos who have all been solid but not spectacular(most of mid 3 ERAs and WHIPs in the 1.3+ range).

 

His offense this year, on paper, has a little better slugging percentage as a team, but Chavez has been mediocre, Bradley's been hurt, Kotsay and Kendall have both been so-so, Swisher's been cold the past few weeks, Crosby flat out sucks, and Thomas was cold to start the year. If that offense could perform anything up to its capabilities, it would be really solid.

 

Regardless, all in all, they are a very scary team, even come postseason time where the A's have been horrible.

[CWSGuy406]

This is the first year Beane can take any credit.... all those other playoff teams were thanks to having 3 aces on your pitching staff he never drafted.

 

Or he drafted all of them, but you were close

 

Tim Hudson - 6th round, '97

Mark Mulder - 1st round, '98

Barry Zito - 1st round, '99

 

Sooooooo he can take credit for everything the A's have done in the past 10 years.

 

pwned

 

Regardless, all in all, they are a very scary team, even come postseason time where the A's have been horrible.

 

Ehh, I think they're meat in the first round for whoever they face, especially if Rich Harden isn't healthy. Their lineup isn't better than any of the playoff contenders, and throwing while Haren + Zito are good up front, they need some help beyond that. If Harden IS healthy, that changes things, but the way things are going, I doubt he'd be able to throw more than five innings.

[Jordan4life_2007]

Frank with another solid game. 1/2 with an RBI single and two BB. The A's are looking mighty good of late. Although they've been feasting on a bad Mariners team.