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For all you chicken littles out there...


Greg Hibbard

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QUOTE(Hangar18 @ Jun 2, 2006 -> 04:13 PM)
Im very worried about the bullpen myself. Sure Thornton looked "good" the last 2 games he was out there

So you didn't watch the game last night I guess?

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QUOTE(Greg Hibbard @ Jun 2, 2006 -> 10:35 AM)
BULLPEN

Okay, Jenks appears to be just fine generally. Cotts' ERA and WHIP are now down to very respectable numbers, and will continue to fall. Thorton had an amazing May and outside of last night, appears to be the real deal. Politte has respectable numbers. So we have a closer and three set up guys. Obviously this Nelson thing did not work. Fine, we tried something, it didn't work. Obviously McCarthy is not really that comfortable in this role some of the time, but he has shown flashes of brilliance. He is still a kid and needs a long leash.

 

I'll take my chances with Starter/Thorton/Politte/Cotts/Jenks against anyone any day of the week, and probably win 3/5 of those games on average. So what if some relievers had a s***ty night. It happens.

 

I'm with you until the Bullpen analysis. What did I miss -- how did the Nelson thing not work? I haven't watched the last few games, only listened to them with Farmer and Singleton, but Jeff Nelson has looked okay to me every time he's been in there; in fact, I've wondered why Ozzie hasn't used him more. Am I wrong, did he bomb?

 

And I have no confidence whatsoever in Politte. I want to, I really do, but I just don't feel good when he's in the game (and neither, obviously, does he). IMO Cliff is expendable.

 

I would like to see B-Mac in the starting rotation, maybe even this year. I'm sorry that Jon Garland has a no-trade clause.

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QUOTE(Felix @ Jun 2, 2006 -> 03:50 PM)
So you didn't watch the game last night I guess?

Before last night Thorntion had gone 8 straight outings without allowing a run. He was pitching great up until last night. So his last 2 games out there were pretty good.

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OH.. so NOW is when we all jump off the cliff. Chill out, gaps happen, everyone has their spurts of poor play. there's 162 games in the season, winning them all won't happen... it will never happen. Until then, let's try to change everything EVERY TIME WE LOSE...

 

One of the few reasons this conversation is happening is because Detroit is in first place, and not the White Sox. They'll be fine, I have confidence that Detroit can't continue playing well above their potential. And we'll swoop in and maintain our championship status.

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QUOTE(PlunketChris @ Jun 2, 2006 -> 05:32 PM)
OH.. so NOW is when we all jump off the cliff. Chill out, gaps happen, everyone has their spurts of poor play. there's 162 games in the season, winning them all won't happen... it will never happen. Until then, let's try to change everything EVERY TIME WE LOSE...

 

One of the few reasons this conversation is happening is because Detroit is in first place, and not the White Sox. They'll be fine, I have confidence that Detroit can't continue playing well above their potential. And we'll swoop in and maintain our championship status.

The "everything is going to be fine" approach doesn't work when a team's glaring weaknesses are so appearant as they are for the Sox right now. I am willing to look the other way on CF and to a lesser degree SS (though I badly want Cintron in there). I am not one to jump off a cliff every time the Sox lose, I just get concerned when the bullpen proves time and time again that they are not going to be able to pitch anywhere near the way they pitched last year. It's not pessimism or freaking out, it's concern.

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QUOTE(Kalapse @ Jun 2, 2006 -> 03:35 PM)
The "everything is going to be fine" approach doesn't work when a team's glaring weaknesses are so appearant as they are for the Sox right now. I am willing to look the other way on CF and to a lesser degree SS (though I badly want Cintron in there). I am not one to jump off a cliff every time the Sox lose, I just get concerned when the bullpen proves time and time again that they are not going to be able to pitch anywhere near the way they pitched last year. It's not pessimism or freaking out, it's concern.

 

I agree. We're going to have a difficult time winning a division this competitive with our current bullpen. Kenny's going to have to make a move or two.

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QUOTE(WCSox @ Jun 2, 2006 -> 05:37 PM)
I agree. We're going to have a difficult time winning a division this competitive with our current bullpen. Kenny's going to have to make a move or two.

See the thing is, I'm not even advocating a trade at this point in time. I'm all for letting some time pass and getting closer to July 31st and see if these current guys can maybe turn it around or simply show more consistancy. If the bullpen is the same near the middle/end of July that it is right now I'll be all for a trade.

 

Unless of course Lidge becomes available anytime soon, then I'm all for giving up some talent for his shutdown ass.

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QUOTE(Kalapse @ Jun 2, 2006 -> 03:40 PM)
See the thing is, I'm not even advocating a trade at this point in time. I'm all for letting some time pass and getting closer to July 31st and see if these current guys can maybe turn it around or simply show more consistancy. If the bullpen is the same near the middle/end of July that it is right now I'll be all for a trade.

 

Unless of course Lidge becomes available anytime soon, then I'm all for giving up some talent for his shutdown ass.

Lidge hasn't given up a run in his last 4 outings, so his "Pujolsing" may have passed through his system, at which point he's not moving anywhere.

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Leave Anderson in center, no matter what the f*** his batting average is. I don't care if he hits .100. We are NOT having a problem scoring runs whatsoever! We absolutely need his defense. Uribe will straighten his problems out. What you are seeing right now is just a case of when it rains, it pours.

 

If Ozzie is worried about Anderson and sees the need to platoon, so am I. You can't have a starting cf

on a world title contender hit under .200. He and Uribe both hitting terribly hurts our team. You can't just

leave them both in there and think 2 automatic outs won't cost us many games. It's platoon time for

Anderson and Uribe is probably close to that, also. Hopefully our experience will pay off and we'll

dominate in Aug and Sept.

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QUOTE(greg775 @ Jun 2, 2006 -> 06:13 PM)
If Ozzie is worried about Anderson and sees the need to platoon, so am I. You can't have a starting cf

on a world title contender hit under .200.

He and Uribe both hitting terribly hurts our team. You can't just

leave them both in there and think 2 automatic outs won't cost us many games. It's platoon time for

Anderson and Uribe is probably close to that, also. Hopefully our experience will pay off and we'll

dominate in Aug and Sept.

I've heard this a few times and I'm wondering who exactly made this rule up. If the guy is playing sick defense and the rest of the lineup 1-7 is producing the way they have been then you get Uribe going, I don't see any problem with Anderson playing out there even if he doesn't hit .200.

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QUOTE(greg775 @ Jun 2, 2006 -> 07:13 PM)
If Ozzie is worried about Anderson and sees the need to platoon, so am I. You can't have a starting cf

on a world title contender hit under .200. He and Uribe both hitting terribly hurts our team. You can't just

leave them both in there and think 2 automatic outs won't cost us many games. It's platoon time for

Anderson and Uribe is probably close to that, also. Hopefully our experience will pay off and we'll

dominate in Aug and Sept.

Anderson's defense saves the same amount of runs, if not more, as his offense costs the team. His defense is too valuable and he should be in the lineup, despite his putrid offensive performance.

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QUOTE(greg775 @ Jun 2, 2006 -> 04:13 PM)
You can have a starting cf on a world title contender hit under .200 if he plays solid defense, the rest of the team hits reasonably well, and the pitching is solid.

 

Fixed

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QUOTE(Felix @ Jun 2, 2006 -> 06:27 PM)
Anderson's defense saves the same amount of runs, if not more, as his offense costs the team. His defense is too valuable and he should be in the lineup, despite his putrid offensive performance.

 

Agreed. Anderson should come around but I think we can still win the division even if he doesn't. Uribe and middle releif at this point.

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I am sick and tired of watching Mackowiak cost us runs in center field on plays that should be easy for someone of his supposed ability, and very easy for Anderson. If it is behind him, Mackowiak for the most part has no chance of catching a ball and if he is forced to run a very long way he often ends up in poor position to catch the ball. He's nearing Pablo Ozuna defense out there. Anderson covers as much ground as Crash in center and sometimes appears to possibly be better, I'll let him develop in the 9 spot for that exchange on defense.

Edited by Jake
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Anderson's defense saves the same amount of runs, if not more, as his offense costs the team. His defense is too valuable and he should be in the lineup, despite his putrid offensive performance.

If this is true, then wouldn't Oz have maintained the faith and kept him in there and not decided

on the platoon? Obviously Oz, a great baseball mind, thinks the s***ty offense BA provides has hurt

the team. If Uribe had hit .250-.270 instead of .200 maybe Oz could have handled one automatic out

in the lineup. Two automatic outs are not good.

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QUOTE(greg775 @ Jun 2, 2006 -> 11:16 PM)
If this is true, then wouldn't Oz have maintained the faith and kept him in there and not decided

on the platoon? Obviously Oz, a great baseball mind, thinks the s***ty offense BA provides has hurt

the team. If Uribe had hit .250-.270 instead of .200 maybe Oz could have handled one automatic out

in the lineup. Two automatic outs are not good.

Are we really sure that Ozzie is a "great baseball mind"? He knows how to handle his players in the clubhouse but at times his in game decisions are not exactly of the genius variety.

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QUOTE(Kalapse @ Jun 2, 2006 -> 04:35 PM)
SS (though I badly want Cintron in there)

 

This will never happen, and for good reason. Cintron is Juan Uribe with less power, less strikeouts, less walks, more double plays, and much worse defense(he's not at all like Uribe and in fact, much worse). What Sox fans fail to realize is that we were trading equal value when we got Cintron for Baj.

Edited by jenksd
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I am an advocate of fixing the bullpen first, but CF is becoming an increasing problem, and will only become bigger once the inevitable happens and Dye, Konerko, Crede, Thome, and AJ start their descent toward career norms offensively. When that happens, you are going to have to get some production out of CF. The problem is if you use Mackowiak, the ball is going to find him out there. It has at least 4 times in the last week. Anderson needs to get out of his funk pretty quickly or a replacement has to be brought in. Jeff Nelson has shown why he was broadcasting, it was a nice try, but its not going to work out.

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QUOTE(jenksd @ Jun 2, 2006 -> 11:29 PM)
This will never happen, and for good reason. Cintron is Juan Uribe with less power, less strikeouts, less walks, more double plays, and much worse defense(he's not at all like Uribe and in fact, much worse). What Sox fans fail to realize is that we were trading equal value when we got Cintron for Baj.

So you're saying that Cintron is AAA SS who will never amount to anything? Some how I doubt this.

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The Sox are still on pace for 99 wins, and that is after this horrible stretch. I am not too worried. Detroit is 1-5 in their last 6 games, and if not for their 15-1 stretch before that, the Sox would not be 2.5 games out.

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IMO, what is happening now with the Sox is like the Perfect storm: the defense isn't strong [missed double plays, balls falling that should be caught], the starting pitchers not going as deep into games [which makes the bullpen have to throw more innings], the bullpen giving up leads and letting games get out of reach, and the offense not hitting with RISP, and poor situational hitting.

 

Right now, the recipe to beat the sox is to make the starters throw a lot of pitches, to get them out after 6 innings, Get to the bullpen and take your chances late in games. If the starters get rolling [which they certainly haven't been], the bullpen situation won't seem as dire.

 

And if any starting staff should get it together, it's the 2006 sox if healthy [which they have been pretty much up to this point]. And looking around the league with various pitching injuries, the sox are still in very good shape. Things will work out

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