Kalapse Posted June 5, 2006 Share Posted June 5, 2006 QUOTE(WCSox @ Jun 5, 2006 -> 05:20 PM) It's not the fans that are full of s***, it's their media. Rowand's likeable on many levels, but still he's a very mediocre hitter. Philly fans would NOT mutiny if they traded him, especially if it was for a starter with Jon's upside. I'll bet they'd be happier with Garland than Gavin Floyd, Ryan Madson, or a washed-up Jon Lieber. Definitely not until the end of the season. Aaron Rowand is not a "mediocre" hitter, he's pretty much an average hitter. Put it this way, if he's mediocre then so is Torii Hunter and Hank Blalock. Comming into this season their OPS+ stood at Hunter: 100, Rowand: 103 and Blalock: 104. After his hot start, I doubt Rowand's OPS+ has dropped. IMO, OPS+ is a damn good way to grade hitters such as these 3 and it shows about where they rank amongst other hitters. Seeing how 100 is average I don't see how you can say Aaron is anything less than that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greg775 Posted June 5, 2006 Share Posted June 5, 2006 I bet the trade rumor is Internet driven. Fans have been talking about it and writers check the Websites and listen to the talk radio. I can't imagine KW calling the Phils after dealing Rowand away so recently. GMs don't call teams begging to get players back that they just dealt. Egos don't allow that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WCSox Posted June 5, 2006 Share Posted June 5, 2006 QUOTE(Kalapse @ Jun 5, 2006 -> 03:24 PM) Aaron Rowand is not a "mediocre" hitter, he's pretty much an average hitter. Put it this way, if he's mediocre then so is Torii Hunter and Hank Blalock. By mediocre, I mean "average" and not in a negative way. Hunter's best days appear to be behind him (and was never a stud hitter to begin with) and Blalock's OBP is weighed down by way too many strikeouts. I think that they're both overrated. It's difficult to compare Aaron with Hunter and Blaylock anyway. The former two are power hitters. Rowand doesn't have their HR power, but has the speed to stretch singles into doubles and doubles into triples. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kalapse Posted June 5, 2006 Share Posted June 5, 2006 QUOTE(WCSox @ Jun 5, 2006 -> 06:14 PM) By mediocre, I mean "average" and not in a negative way. Hunter's best days appear to be behind him (and was never a stud hitter to begin with) and Blalock's OBP is weighed down by way too many strikeouts. I think that they're both overrated. It's difficult to compare Aaron with Hunter and Blaylock anyway. The former two are power hitters. Rowand doesn't have their HR power, but has the speed to stretch singles into doubles and doubles into triples. Well then, mediocre does not equal average. A mediocre hitter is Cesar Izturis. Also, I'm not really sure if anyone knows exactly what Rowand is, the guy hit 24 HRs in '04 then 13 in '05 and now he has 7 HRs through 42 games which over the course of a full season is about 25 or so HRs. Right now Rowand has a .516 SLG (.457 career) whereas Hunter has a .426 (.458 career) and Blalock is at .478 (.472) I think all 3 are very comparable players at the plate especially Hunter and Rowand who are basically the same player. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WCSox Posted June 5, 2006 Share Posted June 5, 2006 QUOTE(Kalapse @ Jun 5, 2006 -> 04:21 PM) Well then, mediocre does not equal average. A mediocre hitter is Cesar Izturis. It certainly can... mediocre: of moderate or low quality, value, ability, or performance If Rowand's OPS+ is 103, he definitely falls into the "moderate" category. Also, I'm not really sure if anyone knows exactly what Rowand is, the guy hit 24 HRs in '04 then 13 in '05 and now he has 7 HRs through 42 games which over the course of a full season is about 25 or so HRs. I'll agree with that. Right now Rowand has a .516 SLG (.457 career) whereas Hunter has a .426 (.458 career) and Blalock is at .478 (.472) I think all 3 are very comparable players at the plate especially Hunter and Rowand who are basically the same player. Blaylock's averaged 29 HRs and 141 Ks over the past two years. I don't think he's the same type of hitter as Rowand. Rowand would be a lot more like Hunter if he could consistently have 25-HR seasons. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kalapse Posted June 5, 2006 Share Posted June 5, 2006 QUOTE(WCSox @ Jun 5, 2006 -> 06:40 PM) It certainly can... mediocre: of moderate or low quality, value, ability, or performance If Rowand's OPS+ is 103, he definitely falls into the "moderate" category. Blaylock's averaged 29 HRs and 141 Ks over the past two years. I don't think he's the same type of hitter as Rowand. Rowand would be a lot more like Hunter if he could consistently have 25-HR seasons. The problem with using mediocre to describe average is, you lose another word to describe below average players. What would you call Izturis? Orlando Cabrera? Royce Clayton? Joe Valentin? Daryl Ward? Jay Payton? Christian Guzman? It's really hard to ask for any sort of consistant stat line from Rowand when this is really only his 3rd full season as a starter. If he puts up 20 HRs this year like he is on pace to do, that would put him at 24-14-20 there's nothing really consistent about that. OPS+ doesn't really discriminate either, as long as the guy isn't a leadoff hitter or big time speed player you can accurately compare 2 players using the stat so just because Blalock and Rowand are not exactly the same kind of player does not mean you can't use OPS+ to compare the 2. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BoKnows Posted June 6, 2006 Share Posted June 6, 2006 QUOTE(Kalapse @ Jun 5, 2006 -> 06:53 PM) The problem with using mediocre to describe average is, you lose another word to describe below average players. What would you call Izturis? Orlando Cabrera? Royce Clayton? Joe Valentin? Daryl Ward? Jay Payton? Christian Guzman? BAD. Calling Royce Clayton mediocre would be nothing short of a compliment Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soxpranos Posted June 6, 2006 Share Posted June 6, 2006 (edited) You can put , Scott Ruffcorn at #3 on ur list. Edited June 6, 2006 by Soxpranos Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SouthsideNorthsideFan Posted June 6, 2006 Share Posted June 6, 2006 (edited) QUOTE(Kalapse @ Jun 5, 2006 -> 06:53 PM) What would you call Orlando Cabrera? Royce Clayton? Joe Valentin? Daryl Ward? Cub killers. Edited June 6, 2006 by SouthsideNorthsideFan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
knightni Posted June 6, 2006 Share Posted June 6, 2006 The rumor's probably Soxtalk-driven like the 'roids thread was. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kyyle23 Posted June 6, 2006 Share Posted June 6, 2006 QUOTE(knightni @ Jun 5, 2006 -> 11:22 PM) The rumor's probably Soxtalk-driven like the 'roids thread was. a similar thread just showed up on chicagosports.com the news is spreading, and spreading fast. Maybe Soxtalk can will this trade to happen like the New York newspapers do Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kapkomet Posted June 6, 2006 Share Posted June 6, 2006 And just like that thread, there's quite a few posters who right away said "bulls***". Can we please give this a rest? It's the "Anatomy of a rumor" all over again. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
knightni Posted June 6, 2006 Share Posted June 6, 2006 Speakng of which... Does anyone have a copy of that article? Is it safe to post it yet admins/mods? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WCSox Posted June 6, 2006 Share Posted June 6, 2006 QUOTE(Kalapse @ Jun 5, 2006 -> 04:53 PM) The problem with using mediocre to describe average is, you lose another word to describe below average players. What would you call Izturis? Orlando Cabrera? Royce Clayton? Joe Valentin? Daryl Ward? Jay Payton? Christian Guzman? You just used an applicable label. If that doesn't suit your taste, you could consult a thesaurus. OPS+ doesn't really discriminate either, as long as the guy isn't a leadoff hitter or big time speed player you can accurately compare 2 players using the stat so just because Blalock and Rowand are not exactly the same kind of player does not mean you can't use OPS+ to compare the 2. I agree that OPS+ will give you comparable overall values as hitters, even when they're not the same types of hitters. But, again, a comparison of two hitters with completely different skill sets, different approaches at the plate, and who hit in different spots in the lineup will only tell you so much. Anyway, we're getting off topic here. And the original topic is worthless speculation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrzo2733 Posted June 8, 2006 Share Posted June 8, 2006 I fear that in order for us to get ARow back he'd really have to fall off, or it's gonna be a while (maybe 6 years or so). I wish we played the Phils this year and he would come back home. Some dreams just don't wanna go away. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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