Have the Sox just gotten fat and lazy?

[That funky motion]

I keep seeing people talking about the team with Thome vs. Rowand. IIRC, wasn't Thome a big reason why Konerko decided to come back this season? Any mention of having Rowand on the team instead of Thome should actually be Rowand instead of Thome and Konerko. How does that lineup look then with how our pitching has been doing?

Great point!

[RibbieRubarb]

times like this the Sox REALLY miss Rowand, the guy was a clubhouse morale machine. Having Thome is awesome, but giving up Rowand meant a lot to CF defense, base speed, a near 300 avg, and a huge intangilble of keeping guys loose and simultaneously fired up. Watching him go this winter broke my heart after what he meant to them last year. Anyone see his diving cath webgem last night, or the collision at the wall that put him on the 15day DL a couple weeks back, that kind of thing just fires people up and I wish he was on our bench right now. Maybe we can give Philly Garland and Anderson in a trade

 

Um...Anderson may be better defensively, Rowand might be a touch faster...but can you tell me when last year Aaron hit .300?

 

Come on guys, let's keep things in perspective

[greg775]

I'm starting to wonder if it is partly Thome's fault, even indirectly for a few reasons.

Blaming Thome for this is not a good idea. It is ridiculous. Thome has been amazing. We need a Rowand

clone in cf which our GM thought would be Anderson. Anderson has sucked offensively, but it is in no

way Thome's fault.

I do agree with the poster who says Politte needs to be shut down. He is hopeless.

Jim made the best suggestion. Send McCarthy down and make him a starter again. Get him some starts.

Try to coax one more inning per game out of the starters.

The bottom line is we haven't replaced Rowand and we haven't replaced Hermanson effectively.

BUT IT AINT THOME'S FAULT! Hail Thome!!!

[The Beast]

Well, I guess we should just lay down and die.

I foresee the Sox taking 1 out of 3 at best in the Tigers series.

 

When will we learn we need bullpen help?

 

Is Hermanson ever coming back? It said 15 day DL but I didn't see if he got transferred.

[Kalapse]

I foresee the Sox taking 1 out of 3 at best in the Tigers series.

 

When will we learn we need bullpen help?

 

Is Hermanson ever coming back? It said 15 day DL but I didn't see if he got transferred.

Do not expect anything out of Hermanson this season, he's comming off a very serious injury and the word "retirement" was being thrown around in the offseason, players in that sort of situation should not be counted on to be a big part of your pen.

 

Also, if you thought Politte had a career year last year, just take a look at what Hermanson did. Even if he did come back I wouldn't envision him putting up numbers any better than Clifford.

Edited June 5, 2006 by Kalapse

[The Beast]

Do not expect anything out of Hermanson this season, he's comming off a very serious injury and the word "retirement" was being thrown around in the offseason, players in that sort of situation should not be counted on to be a big part of your pen.

 

Also, if you thought Politte had a career year last year, just take a look at what Hermanson did. Even if he did come back I wouldn't envision him putting up numbers any better than Clifford.

Well, there's really no market for a pitcher right now, so thats why I brought Hermy up.

[BigSqwert]

BTW, I know it doesnt seem possible, but if Anderson wasn't out in CF today, the score would have been alot worse. Brian needs to be out there everyday.

Not sure I agree. Not one of BA's better defensive games this year IMO.

[Balta1701]

Not sure I agree. Not one of BA's better defensive games this year IMO.

Actually Tony's probably right...even though Anderson had 2 bad plays out there, missing the cutoff man and not backing up Pablo, he also had a couple of good running/diving catches today, at least 1, if not 2 of which Mack simply wouldn't have even been close on. And Mack probably wouldn't have been in position to back up the diving Ozuna on either of those doubles, just because he wouldn't have gotten there.

[South Side Fireworks Man]

They were mainly scratching for runs last year because the offense sucks, when you have a below average offense you tend to have to give up more outs simply to get 1 run at a time. When you have 2 guys in your lineup with an OPS over 1.000 like the Sox do right now, you don't have to play as much small ball. What you're saying is a negative is actually a positive.

 

I stated it neither as a positive nor a negative. It is what it is.

[That funky motion]

BTW, I know it doesnt seem possible, but if Anderson wasn't out in CF today, the score would have been alot worse. Brian needs to be out there everyday.

I agree. Leave him out there and let him work out his batting.

[Balta1701]

I agree. Leave him out there and let him work out his batting.

Especially now that Mack is over his brief hot streak, I agree. Once again I ask...what the f*** is Greg Walker being paid for if this kid can't hit .200?

[fullcollapse]

as far as buehrle is concerned, he does much worse when widger is catching this year

ip er era w l nd

aj 50 8 1.44 6 0 1 (no decision was opening night, includes sunday night game in minnesota)

cw 31.2 23 6.54 0 4 1

 

i did this myself pretty quick, but it should be pretty accurate. also i don't know what the stats were last year, or what any of the more usefull stats are, and yes it is a small sample size, but it suggests maybe buehrle just doesn't pitch as well with widger behind the plate. it would make some sense, since buehrle rarely shakes off pitches. perhaps aj calls games better for buehrle?

[BigSqwert]

...what the f*** is Greg Walker being paid for...

To watch the opponent throw 6 pitch innings against us.

[Balta1701]

as far as buehrle is concerned, he does much worse when widger is catching this year

ip er era w l nd

aj 50 8 1.44 6 0 1 (no decision was opening night, includes sunday night game in minnesota)

cw 31.2 23 6.54 0 4 1

 

i did this myself pretty quick, but it should be pretty accurate. also i don't know what the stats were last year, or what any of the more usefull stats are, and yes it is a small sample size, but it suggests maybe buehrle just doesn't pitch as well with widger behind the plate. it would make some sense, since buehrle rarely shakes off pitches. perhaps aj calls games better for buehrle?

Widger's CERA was actually quite a bit better than AJ's last year...mainly because Widger and Buehrle were working together a lot and doing quite well at it.

[fullcollapse]

Widger's CERA was actually quite a bit better than AJ's last year...mainly because Widger and Buehrle were working together a lot and doing quite well at it.

 

ah, ok. i didn't know what their stats were last year. it just seemed like buehrle has been doing worse when widger catches.

[Kalapse]

This is just for the record. Widger has started 12 games this year, 13 if you count the Cubs game that AJ was ejected from considering how he caught most the game. Oddly enough Jose Contreras has never had Widge catch for him. These numbers are strickly FWIW but it doesn't hurt throwin them out there.

 

The Sox are 7-6 when Widger starts which isn't as bad as I thought seeing how the Sunday Linuep is usually out there when he starts. Pitchers have also had 3 ND when he starts and the Sox have won each of those games.

 

13 GS | 7-6

 

Garland:

1.) 5.1, 10H, 9ER, 2:6, 1E (L)

3.) 6.1, 6H, 1ER, 0:3, 1E (W)

5.) 7IP, 5H, 5ER, 2:2, 1E (ND) (W)

11.) 6.1, 10H, 4ER, 2:5, 0E (ND) (W)

 

Vazquez:

2.) 6IP, 9H, 7ER, 1:4, 2E (L)

9.) 7IP, 8H, 5ER, 1:4, 1E (L)

 

Buehrle:

4.) 7IP, 7H, 4ER, 0:0, 0E (L)

6.) 5.2, 13H, 7ER, 3:3, 0E (L)

7.) 6IP, 7H, 2ER, 2:4, 0E (ND) (W)

12.) 6IP, 8H, 4ER, 1:3, 1E (L)

13.) 7IP, 9H, 6ER, 4:3, 0E (L)

 

Garcia:

8.) 6.2, 7H, 3ER, 1:3, 0E (W)

10.) 8IP, 8H, 0ER, 0:3, 1E (W)

 

Contreras:

N/A

 

JG: 1-1 (2 ND)

JV: 0-2

MB: 0-4 (1 ND)

FG: 2-0

JC: N/A

 

 

MB: 31.2IP, 23ER, 44H, 10BB, 13K | 6.54 ERA, 1.71 WHIP

FG: 14.2IP, 3ER, 15H, 1BB, 6K | 1.84 ERA, 1.09 WHIP

JG: 25IP, 19ER, 29H, 6BB, 16K | 6.84 ERA, 1.40 WHIP

JV: 13IP, 12 ER, 17H, 2BB, 8K | 8.31 ERA, 1.46 WHIP

[Balta1701]

Oddly enough Jose Contreras has never had Widge catch for him.

The 2 Cubans were terrible when working with Widger last year, and by June Ozzie had basically figured out that he couldn't have the Widge catch them.

[greg775]

This is Mark Buehrle on the eve of a Central Division showdown with the Tigers: “If we don’t win the series, it’s not the end of the world — we’ve got a lot of season left. But if we keep playing way we are right now, the season’s going to be over pretty quick.”

Buehrle's quote from the Chicago Trib tonight shows there is some cause for concern. The team is playing lousy baseball.

It's sad because we have the offense and the closer. We just have no middle to set up relievers and the starters have

only been good, not great.

[Whitewashed in '05]

Its sad how bad this team is playing right now because we all know they can be better than last year, but they haven't done the job. Politte is worse than terrible, Nelson and his replace are pretty bad and our starting pitching is also bad.

 

I really hope we can get some bullpen help because we need 2 arms at minimum 1. If we get nothing were screwed.

[TheDudeAbides]

To those of you who don't believe, well i quoth Spaceballs (dark helmet that is)

 

"I'm surrounded by assholes!"

[Colorado Sox Fan]

One thing we can take a little solace in is that Toronto, Cleveland and Texas are very good hitting ballclubs. Still, the pitching's not where it needs to be.

 

I think the Jeff Nelson era is over. Sounds like Ozzie's saying that Cliffy is relegated to mop up duty.

 

We need the starters to step up. But do they have it in them?

 

I love ARow, but if he were on this team instead of Thome we'd be about .500 right now. And, Thome's just as good a clubhouse guy.

 

In order to play small ball, you need good pitching and defense. It worked last year, because we were only giving up a couple of runs a game. When your starters are getting hammered every game, it kind of eliminates the strategy of playing for one run.

 

They're not fat and lazy. They're not pitching well at all and the league is figuring out these guys.

 

What did we do with RISP last year vs. this season? Is it that much worse?

 

Let's take two of three from Detroit and then get some revenge on the Tribe. If we continue to falter, I'm pulling out the Playoff DVDs.

[Controlled Chaos]

Actually, I agree with you. It wasnt one of BA's best defensive games, and it was still head and shoulders above what anyone else can do in CF for the Sox.

 

I understand Brian at the plate is hard to watch, but the way the pitching has been going, also the lack of K's they are collecting(I think we have the 2nd fewest behind San Fran) the D is super important to this club, and Mack just doesnt bring that to the table.

 

I also still have a hard time with how quick they pulled the plug on Brian. If we still had Chris Young, or we had a Ryan Church, Jeff Davannon type player backing him up, I wouldnt have a problem with Brian getting a seat on the bench most of the time, but Kenny went out of his way, and im sure he had Oz's good word that they didnt need Rowand, and Young was expendable because of Anderson. If your going to put that much faith into a player, you damn well better make it a strong investment and not give up on it in two months. Yes I understand this is a World Series team, and yes I understand its hard to have a .170 hitter a the bottom of the order, but the O hasn't been the problem this year, yet Brian has been riding the pine ALOT this season....

 

I actually think if Pods was in left, it could have been one of Brians great games...I think he probably could have gotten to both those balls Ozuna dove at. Brian did make a rookie mistake on the one play by heading for the dugout, but I only think he did that cause he figured it was a routine catch and pablo called for it. Anderson was pretty much past that ball when Pablo dove. He might have had it standing up.

 

I want Brian in the field. I don't care about his bat right now, we aren't losing cause of his bat. He saves us runs out there. If he saves us 2 runs a game it's the same as scoring two. I would also like something to be worked out in the outfield where Brian takes most gappers.

[DBAHO]

The last few games have just showed the need for only bullpen help, but also the increased need for a better defensive CF than Machowiak that can rotate with BA as well.

 

In terms of bullpen help, unless KW decides to make an early move like 04 again, all of the options are going to be in house.

[CanOfCorn]

Wasn't there a stretch last year where the Sox played kinda like this? Hmmm...let me think...oh yeah, when the lead when from 15 games to a game-and-a-half...and what happened after that?

 

Just about every team goes through something like this every year (except the Royals, this IS their year). They are in a collective team funk. It may have a little something to do with the World Series, but even if they would've lost last year, the team would still be going through something like this at some point.

 

They'll get back on track, and don't forget, they are still playing .600 baseball and are ONLY 2 1/2 games behind. It's not like this team is the Pirates.

[southsideirish71]

This team is not the 2005 team, think more of the 2003-2004 teams. Good hitting, mediocre pitching. They were supposed to have 5 aces, however they dont. They have one legitimate guy with ace stuff, Contreras.