Multiple arrests in foiled Canadian terror plot

[southsider2k5]

17 arrested, 3 tons of bomb making material found

 

How safe is our northern border?

 

More arrests are expected

 

Canadian terror group had contacts with suspects arrested in US

[mr_genius]

c'mon dude, any attempts to secure the northern border would be obvious anti-canadian racism

[Controlled Chaos]

This is where a phone database comes in handy.

[NorthSideSox72]

This is where a phone database comes in handy.

A gun owners' registry would come in handy for a lot of crime too, but I'm pretty sure you wouldn't like that. And neither would I - because its unconstitutional, just like the phone database.

 

That aside, I have to say I'm proud of the Canadian authorities for getting these guys.

[kapkomet]

A gun owners' registry would come in handy for a lot of crime too, but I'm pretty sure you wouldn't like that. And neither would I - because its unconstitutional, just like the phone database.

 

Oh is it? Why is it your "God-given" right to have a phone that can't be cataloged?

 

Explain to me how it's unconstitutional to have databases...

[NorthSideSox72]

Oh is it? Why is it your "God-given" right to have a phone that can't be cataloged?

 

Explain to me how it's unconstitutional to have databases...

I put out my arguments on this a few weeks ago when that news hit. In short, I believe the due process protections in regards to warrants cover phone data, and even if they didn't, probable cause would. There is no viable cause for collecting all phone data. There just isn't.

[Balta1701]

This is where a phone database comes in handy.

So, there's something stopping the Federal Government from subpoenaing that information?

[Rex Kickass]

Wall off Canada!

[FlaSoxxJim]

Wall off Canada!

 

Burning moats stocked with fireproof crocodiles!!

[Balta1701]

Burning moats stocked with fireproof crocodiles!!

At least it keeps the black knight at bay.

[kapkomet]

I put out my arguments on this a few weeks ago when that news hit. In short, I believe the due process protections in regards to warrants cover phone data, and even if they didn't, probable cause would. There is no viable cause for collecting all phone data. There just isn't.

So why was it "ok" 10 years ago when echelon was going on, but now it's not?

[NorthSideSox72]

So why was it "ok" 10 years ago when echelon was going on, but now it's not?

Kap... for the umpteenth time... I NEVER SAID ECHELON WAS OK EITHER!!!!!!!!!

 

You are confusing me with someone else.

[My Dixie Normus]

Non-US citizens do not enjoy rights protected under the Constitution.

[kapkomet]

Non-US citizens do not enjoy rights protected under the Constitution.

Yes, they do, if you're an ILLEGAL immigrant.

 

:rolly

[southsider2k5]

And an interesting footnote to this story... There of course is an article with the Imam talking about how they teach non-violence.

 

http://www.breitbart.com/news/2006/06/05/D8I22IHO0.html

[NorthSideSox72]

Non-US citizens do not enjoy rights protected under the Constitution.

And that has what to do this topic?

 

 

Yes, they do, if you're an ILLEGAL immigrant.

 

:rolly

[My Dixie Normus]

"And that has what to do this topic?"

 

A gun owners' registry would come in handy for a lot of crime too, but I'm pretty sure you wouldn't like that. And neither would I - because its unconstitutional, just like the phone database.

 

That aside, I have to say I'm proud of the Canadian authorities for getting these guys.

 

This is what it has to do with this topic. If the Canadian terrorists made call into the US, those numbers can be searched in the data base. Those who received or made calls to these number are subject to investigation/suspicion. Since the US Citizen is not the basis of the search criteria, more collateral discovery, their rights have not been violated but they can still be investigated and ultimatley prosecuted and convicted based on an investigation that began on a non-US citizen. Pretty basic really.

[NorthSideSox72]

"And that has what to do this topic?"

This is what it has to do with this topic. If the Canadian terrorists made call into the US, those numbers can be searched in the data base. Those who received or made calls to these number are subject to investigation/suspicion. Since the US Citizen is not the basis of the search criteria, more collateral discovery, their rights have not been violated but they can still be investigated and ultimatley prosecuted and convicted based on an investigation that began on a non-US citizen. Pretty basic really.

I still don't see what you are getting at. Did calls between these Canadians and some US counterparts take place? Were people in the US known terrorists or something? I don't see the connection. I agree with your point, I just don't see what it has to do with this.

[southsider2k5]

I still don't see what you are getting at. Did calls between these Canadians and some US counterparts take place? Were people in the US known terrorists or something? I don't see the connection. I agree with your point, I just don't see what it has to do with this.

 

 

Yes and Yes. They placed calls to terror suspects who were arrested within the US.

[My Dixie Normus]

If a known foreign terror suspect places to or receives a call from inside the US, citizen or not, the person on the other end becomes subject to suspicion and further investigation. The vehicle to find out these names is the phone data base. It is, in and of itself, not unconstitutional. Certain uses can be but the data base is just a collection of data. If it is used to investigate domestic criminal activity without a warrant that use is illegal. Tracking the movements and communications of hostile foreign forces is not only lawful but compulsory activity our government should be doing. If it leads to a domestic connection, it is collateral discovery.

 

You claim that the data base is illegal. I contend that it is not.

[Controlled Chaos]

My comments from this post...

 

I am OK with this and it has nothing to do with the GOP. It has to do with protecting this country. If 6 months from now we catch a terrorist, wouldn't it be extremely beneficial for the NSA, CIA, FBI or who ever the hell does it, to look back and see who they called when. Wouldn't it be beneficial to capture a whole cell or multiple cells because of this program. This is not to track John and Mary Jones. This is not infinging on your rights to have a private and secure conversation. Your number willl never even be looked at unless you're speaking to someone you shouldn't be. This program can be an enormous help in the fight. I mean you people do know that terrorists don't walk around with signs that say "I want to kill Americans." We don't know who they are right now. If we do catch one...we can go back and see who they have links to. We can catch others that want to blow up our buildings. We can catch others that want to kill our way of life. Yeah, I'm all for that. If you think it's just because of party affiliation then so be it.

 

Ok so it wasn't 6 months, but Canada has caught some terrorists. I don't know how it all went down and I don't know what was planned...but that's just it...We don't know. I would say time is a pretty important issue. If our government can cross reference the terrorists numbers from Canada with their database here and get a few matches and move on it right away, they could possibly foil an attack. Don't you think the terrorists would speed up their evil plan if they found out some of their buddies got busted? I'm sure they would know their time would be runnin out. Minutes could be the difference in preventing an attack.

[My Dixie Normus]

I'm sure they would know their time would be runnin out. Minutes could be the difference in preventing an attack.

 

They read all about the program in the NY-Times. Sure they know time is running out. They either bail out and go into hiding of they pull the trigger on the plan.

[NorthSideSox72]

If a known foreign terror suspect places to or receives a call from inside the US, citizen or not, the person on the other end becomes subject to suspicion and further investigation. The vehicle to find out these names is the phone data base. It is, in and of itself, not unconstitutional. Certain uses can be but the data base is just a collection of data. If it is used to investigate domestic criminal activity without a warrant that use is illegal. Tracking the movements and communications of hostile foreign forces is not only lawful but compulsory activity our government should be doing. If it leads to a domestic connection, it is collateral discovery.

 

You claim that the data base is illegal. I contend that it is not.

If the database contained just those people's calls (those who are non-citizens, and/or overseas calls involving non-citizens), then I am perfectly fine with it.

[My Dixie Normus]

If the database contained just those people's calls (those who are non-citizens, and/or overseas calls involving non-citizens), then I am perfectly fine with it.

 

Then the data base becomes discriminant and would be illegal. You would have to give service providers a target list of numbers to track. Since it now records all calls, it is legal. Kapeesh? Only the records of foreign hostiles are opened in a specific search criteria and those who they have had contact with become collateral discovery.

 

To give you another example. A municipality can monitor an intersection with a camera as long as the monitoring is done indiscrminatley. They must monitor all traffic and activity at that corner, not just when a certain individual is present.

[Balta1701]

Then the data base becomes discriminant and would be illegal. You would have to give service providers a target list of numbers to track. Since it now records all calls, it is legal. Kapeesh? Only the records of foreign hostiles are opened in a specific search criteria and those who they have had contact with become collateral discovery.

 

To give you another example. A municipality can monitor an intersection with a camera as long as the monitoring is done indiscrminatley. They must monitor all traffic and activity at that corner, not just when a certain individual is present.

Here's the funny little thing though...service providers keep a record of who you're calling anyway. You know that list of long distance calls you made during the previous month that shows up on your phone bill? Service providers have access to that same information. The difference is that Service Providers are usually very strictly bound by laws as to when they're allowed to give that information up. If a government entity wants access to information about who's been called by a specific person, they have the ability to get that from the service provider for anyone using a phone. The one thing required is that they need to go before a U.S. court if it is needed for law enforcement purposes, or the FISA court it it is needed for national security reasons.