Crede

[shoota]

How many times over the past few seasons have you seen Joe Crede make good defensive plays at 3B, compared to a lot of other third baseman?

 

That's hard to say since I don't watch many MLB games outside of Sox games, and can't follow other 3Bmen regularly. No matter how many times I've seen Crede field a good play, it doesn't exempt him from his bad ones and the fact that he receives more praise for his defensive ability than deserved.

 

This point returns me back to my first post where I criticized DJ for making excuses for Crede's two errors and mentioning Crede's good points as if he's trying to sell a used car.

[Kalapse]

Well, according to a guy who is considered one of the best minds when it comes to the game of baseaball Joe Crede is the best defensive 3B in the league.

 

But I'm sure you know more than Steve Stone.

[3RDBASE]

That's hard to say since I don't watch many MLB games outside of Sox games, and can't follow other 3Bmen regularly. No matter how many times I've seen Crede field a good play, it doesn't exempt him from his bad ones and the fact that he receives more praise for his defensive ability than deserved.

 

This point returns me back to my first post where I criticized DJ for making excuses for Crede's two errors and mentioning Crede's good points as if he's trying to sell a used car.

 

 

You never watch Espn or any highlights?

 

I guess your right...Dumb DJ fire that idiot and trade Crede because he is proving himself worthless!

 

:rolly

[shoota]

Well, according to a guy who is considered one of the best minds when it comes to the game of baseaball Joe Crede is the best defensive 3B in the league.

 

But I'm sure you know more than Steve Stone.

 

I certainly do not have more knowledge of the game of baseball than Steve Stone, but it's likely that I've seen more White Sox games with Joe Crede at third base than Stone has.

[Kalapse]

You never watch Espn or any highlights?

 

I guess your right...Dumb DJ fire that idiot and trade Crede because he is proving himself worthless!

 

:rolly

It's awful hard to judge a thirdbaseman's defensive ability by watching highlights on ESPN.

[witesoxfan]

Crede committed two errors on one play which any other 3Bman would have made and ended the inning,

 

 

That's hard to say since I don't watch many MLB games outside of Sox games, and can't follow other 3Bmen regularly.

[Steve9347]

Like his dropped foul popup against Boston last year? CLUTCH.

 

i was at that game. we lost. it sucked.

 

and then, magically, we won the world series! give the guy, and out kickass announcers, a break

[greasywheels121]

 

Well done. I can tell you had your cape on for that.

[Rowand44]

[Kalapse]

I certainly do not have more knowledge of the game of baseball than Steve Stone, but it's likely that I've seen more White Sox games with Joe Crede at third base than Stone has.

And he's seen far more of action from other 3B in baseball than you have. I'm sure he's seen his fair share of White Sox games since Crede took over the hot corner, he does work for the Score as a primarily Cubs/Sox analyst. I think I'll put more stock into his evaluation of Crede defensively.

[shoota]

You never watch Espn or any highlights?

 

I guess your right...Dumb DJ fire that idiot and trade Crede because he is proving himself worthless!

 

:rolly

 

I don't think Web Gem highlights are an accurate way to evaluate the defensive ability of a player because of the small sample size of that player's defensive chances.

 

As for your second comment, nowhere did I lobby for DJ's firing or suggest Crede gets traded.

[chitownsportsfan]

Eh, if I remember correctly, (it's been awile) most of the sabermetric guys have crede above average to very good at 3B. Of course, those metrics aren't as accurate as the ones for batting and pitching, but it's a start.

 

Combine that with the numerous anecdotal evidence from fans and analysts, and I think he's one of the top defensive 3B in the league.

 

I wouldn't get so worked up about errors--they are not a good measure of ability.

 

I'm surprised I was able to answer this rediculous thread so sanely. Two one run wins in a row will do that.

[shoota]

Great point witesoxfan, though off the mark. By definition, if a player errors, he fails to make a play that's expected of MLB players. Even if I've never seen another 3Bman play, I know by the official scorer's tally that Crede failed to make a play that every other 3Bman is expected to make.

[chitownsportsfan]

By definition, if a player errors, he fails to make a play that's expected of MLB players.

 

If that's the definition of an error it proves my point That's the most subjective definition possible.

 

If Rob Mackowiak takes a horrible path to a gapper and ends up 3 feet from catching it, currently, that is not an error. It was a terrible play, but not an "error".

 

The whole "error" as defensive measure is stupid. Sure, I'm not going to sit here and argue errors are a good thing, it's just silly though to use them as any sort of measure of defensive play, when much better measures exist.

 

Crede should have made that play, this we are in agreement about. I disagree with everhthing else you've said.

[witesoxfan]

Great point witesoxfan, though off the mark. By definition, if a player errors, he fails to make a play that's expected of MLB players. Even if I've never seen another 3Bman play, I know by the official scorer's tally that Crede failed to make a play that every other 3Bman is expected to make.

 

So you are saying that it's a play every other player in the MLB makes because it was judged an error by an offcial scorer?

 

That's about the worst reasoning ever. Official scorer's aren't exactly 100% accurate either.

 

I didn't see the play...however, from what I have read, it was apparently a somewhat tough play to make, and only the throw should have been scored an error.

[shoota]

If that's the definition of an error it proves my point That's the most subjective definition possible.

 

If Rob Mackowiak takes a horrible path to a gapper and ends up 3 feet from catching it, currently, that is not an error. It was a terrible play, but not an "error".

 

The whole "error" as defensive measure is stupid. Sure, I'm not going to sit here and argue errors are a good thing, it's just silly though to use them as any sort of measure of defensive play, when much better measures exist.

 

Crede should have made that play, this we are in agreement about. I disagree with everhthing else you've said.

 

 

So you are saying that it's a play every other player in the MLB makes because it was judged an error by an offcial scorer?

 

That's about the worst reasoning ever. Official scorer's aren't exactly 100% accurate either.

 

I didn't see the play...however, from what I have read, it was apparently a somewhat tough play to make, and only the throw should have been scored an error.

 

 

Great point about the subjective nature of errors. I brought up the same point last season over at WSI. For your own enlightenment, you can search my posts that listed Crede's misplays that weren't recorded as errors--something I termed "unofficial errors."

[Kalapse]

Great point about the subjective nature of errors. I brought up the same point last season over at WSI. For your own enlightenment, you can search my posts that listed Crede's misplays that weren't recorded as errors--something I termed "unofficial errors."

Maybe you should stick to WSI.

[shoota]

Maybe you should stick to WSI.

 

I plan on going back after my lifetime ban expires.

 

Seriously, I'm just trying to inform another segment of Sox fans who may have been blinded to the insight I awaken in them.

[Leonard Zelig]

Did anyone see the error Scott Rolen made the other night? That guy's almost as bad as Crede.

Edited June 8, 2006 by Leonard Zelig

[YASNY]

I plan on going back after my lifetime ban expires.

 

Seriously, I'm just trying to inform another segment of Sox fans who may have been blinded to the insight I awaken in them.

 

Sorry, I can't see you. That damn Joe Crede and his glove caused a World Series championship banner to be hung up just where it's blocking my view of you. I guess I won't have the privilege of being 'enlightened'.

[Kyyle23]

I plan on going back after my lifetime ban expires.

 

Seriously, I'm just trying to inform another segment of Sox fans who may have been blinded to the insight I awaken in them.

 

With the reasoning and logic you display, I cannot imagine why you have a lifetime ban.....

 

Yes, DJ and Hawk are homers who defend any and all plays from the White Sox, but this doesnt mean that Crede's defense is over-rated. You point out two errors in the past year that somehow make his defense over-rated. Doesnt that seem a bit wierd to you? How many chances does he get all year, and how many errors does he make? Is he on par with the rest of the 3Bs in the league error-wise? Did his one error against Boston prevent him from ever becoming a "clutch" gold glove player?

[southsider2k5]

Great point about the subjective nature of errors. I brought up the same point last season over at WSI. For your own enlightenment, you can search my posts that listed Crede's misplays that weren't recorded as errors--something I termed "unofficial errors."

 

 

I plan on going back after my lifetime ban expires.

 

Seriously, I'm just trying to inform another segment of Sox fans who may have been blinded to the insight I awaken in them.

 

Ah now it all adds up. Its obvious the guy has been "stalking" Crede for a while now if he has created a whole new category to give him ammo to go after the guy. Another agenda, another stalker, :headshake

[RibbieRubarb]

Ah now it all adds up. Its obvious the guy has been "stalking" Crede for a while now if he has created a whole new category to give him ammo to go after the guy. Another agenda, another stalker, :headshake

 

I agree Mike...

 

You know I am getting sick and tired of these reactionary posts to specific situations and their subsequent trashing of good players on our team.

 

First the Thome post , now Crede. Their history and stats speak for themselves.

 

to Shoota:

Crede is one of the BEST defensive 3rd baseman in the game. Period.

You have NO facts to back up your claim except your twisted agenda.

Edited June 8, 2006 by RibbieRubarb

[NorthSideSox72]

I wouldn't be too concerned with Shoota. I noticed there was a wave of bannings over on WSI (they must have mentioned the word "Cubs" too many times or something), and so we are seeing guys like Shoota and Hangar over here now. Shoota seems a tad bitter.

[zach61]

Okay you can just stop right there. Don't make yourself look like an idiot.

 

Too late, he already did. Guess he missed the WS last yr. He probably still thinks Jose Valentin should be our 3rd baseman.