Erstad

[Balta1701]

So, there have been at least a couple folks around who have mentionned Darrin Erstad as a possible candidate to replace Anderson in CF. Despite the fact that I think it's a bad idea on it's face, it's now looking to be almost impossible. Erstad has suffered a rehab setback, and it looks like if he doesn't go in for surgery, he'll be making a mistake.

 

After suffering another setback Monday in his rehabilitation from a right-ankle injury, it appears Erstad, who has not played since April 30, could miss a big chunk of 2006, as well.

 

Erstad, who was pulled from Salt Lake's game in the sixth inning, has returned to Southern California to be examined.

 

"For Erstad to take himself out of a game, it's significant," Manager Mike Scioscia said.

 

Erstad, who went one for 14 in four minor league games, has two bone spurs in the ankle, but the more perplexing issue is an inflamed lower-ankle joint. Several times in recent weeks, Erstad has increased his activity level, only to suffer pain and swelling in the joint.

 

Surgery, which would sideline Erstad for the rest of the season, still hasn't been discussed. But if Erstad doesn't improve, he would probably have to decide whether to have surgery this season, assuring a full recovery for 2007, or wait until after the season, possibly jeopardizing his chances of being ready for 2007.

[Kalapse]

How many times did I say this guy would be gone for the season? 4? 5? It's ridiculous that his name was ever even mentioned.

[Friend of Nordhagen]

How many times did I say this guy would be gone for the season? 4? 5? It's ridiculous that his name was ever even mentioned.

 

Really? Ridiculous? You might want to ask Mike Scioscia about that, since he says in this very article:

 

"He gives us a defensive presence in center field … and when you factor in the intangibles, it's a big void," Scioscia said.

 

Or maybe you weren't aware of these comments from Adam Kennedy, in a recent Peter Gammons blog note:

 

"We are," Adam Kennedy says, "two teams -- with and without Ersty."

 

 

In short, he's a hell of a player. I think we were all aware of his injury history. We should be familiar with such a history -- because it's pretty similar to Jermaine Dye's before we got him. You know Dye, right? The guy you believe is the best rightfielder in the league?

 

In any event, Erstad's problems staying healthy is why he was mentioned -- by me, anyway -- as someone to MONITOR while we waited on Anderson.

 

Well, it looks like the monitoring of both is coming to an end. Turn the page.

[Kalapse]

Really? Ridiculous? You might want to ask Mike Scioscia about that, since he says in this very article:

 

"He gives us a defensive presence in center field … and when you factor in the intangibles, it's a big void," Scioscia said.

 

Or maybe you weren't aware of these comments from Adam Kennedy, in a recent Peter Gammons blog note:

 

"We are," Adam Kennedy says, "two teams -- with and without Ersty."

In short, he's a hell of a player. I think we were all aware of his injury history. We should be familiar with such a history -- because it's pretty similar to Jermaine Dye's before we got him. You know Dye, right? The guy you believe is the best rightfielder in the league?

 

In any event, Erstad's problems staying healthy is why he was mentioned -- by me, anyway -- as someone to MONITOR while we waited on Anderson.

 

Well, it looks like the monitoring of both is coming to an end. Turn the page.

Haha, what the f*** did you expect them to say?

 

"Yeah losing Darin for the rest of the year is really a blessing in diguise I mean his replacement (Juan Rivera) is actually the superior player in this case. It's a great day for Angels baseball we lose the old, slow and bad Darin Erstad, HORRAY!!"

 

"Two teams -- with and without Ersty I mean when we do have him we have an automatic out in the lineup but with him on the DL we don't have to see him go up there and suck for 4 ABs a game."

 

Please, please never compare the great hitter in Jermaine Dye to that mediocre s*** offensive player by the name of Erstad.

[SoxFanForever]

Haha, what the f*** did you expect them to say?

 

"Yeah losing Darin for the rest of the year is really a blessing in diguise I mean his replacement (Juan Rivera) is actually the superior player in this case. It's a great day for Angels baseball we lose the old, slow and bad Darin Erstad, HORRAY!!"

 

"Two teams -- with and without Ersty I mean when we do have him we have an automatic out in the lineup but with him on the DL we don't have to see him go up there and suck for 4 ABs a game."

 

Please, please never compare the great hitter in Jermaine Dye to that mediocre s*** offensive player by the name of Erstad.

[Friend of Nordhagen]

Haha, what the f*** did you expect them to say?

 

"Yeah losing Darin for the rest of the year is really a blessing in diguise I mean his replacement (Juan Rivera) is actually the superior player in this case. It's a great day for Angels baseball we lose the old, slow and bad Darin Erstad, HORRAY!!"

 

"Two teams -- with and without Ersty I mean when we do have him we have an automatic out in the lineup but with him on the DL we don't have to see him go up there and suck for 4 ABs a game."

 

Please, please never compare the great hitter in Jermaine Dye to that mediocre s*** offensive player by the name of Erstad.

 

I guess we should do this this in order:

 

(1) Jermaine Dye was the World Series MVP last year. He's having a really good year this year. And I'm not comparing who's having a better year this year. All I've been pointing out -- again, I'm having to say this to you (which is unreal) -- are players to monitor until the trade deadline.

 

(2) Breathe deeply. Take a look to your right shoulder. Take a look over to left shoulder. Remove both of the chips that you seem to have brought to this discussion.

 

(3) Here are some numbers for you to think about (if you're able):

 

So let's keep in mind that what I said (and I know that can be difficult to follow when your goal is to prove your blinding baseball acumen and not to have a civil discussion -- which I've now abandoned, thanks to your attitude) was that Erstad's injury history was similar to Dye's (Remember, that's what I said, right, genius?).

 

Here are some numbers. Again, these aren't diatribes or vitriol, so try to make an adjustment in your impressive knee-jerk approach:

 

2002: Games played -- Dye: 131. Erstad: 150

 

2003: Games played -- Dye: 65. Erstad: 67

 

2004: Games played -- Dye: 137. Erstad: 125

 

(all before we took the plunge on Dye)

 

Total games played -- Dye: 333. Erstad: 342.

 

Oh, and last year, too:

 

2005: Games played -- Dye 145. Erstad: 153

 

How's it look so far?

 

Okay, now on to the batting statistics. They've both played 10 years, according to Who's Who in Baseball. Here are numbers from ESPN (you know what that is, right?):

 

Dye's career OPS is .814, his career average is .274 and his career obp is .337.

 

Erstad's career OPS is .757, his career average is .287 and his career obp is .341.

 

So Dye has a higher OPS. Erstad has a higher average and OBP.

 

Coming into this year, Dye had 192 career home runs (but he had 31 less BEFORE we took a flyer on him, and that was the point, right?). Erstad had 114. But Erstad had 278 doubles to Dye's 247, and 30 triples to Dye's 20. And he had 169 stolen bases to Dye's 34.

 

He has 2 Gold Gloves in centerfield. Dye has 0 in right field.

 

But Dye has a World Series ring. But, oops, so does Erstad.

 

And Dye has 3 errors this year in 48 games in RF, while Erstad had 0 errors in 22 game in CF.

 

Chew on those, big boy. I'm sure you'll spin all this in some impressive direction. Or maybe you'll just lash out at Erstad. I guess the evidence would point that way. Yours is an awesome talent for obfuscation.

 

Anyway, all I did was propose a guy who could be a target. He's hurt, and it looks like he won't come back. But your big proposal was to stick with Anderson, which I thought was good to a point, too. But I wasn't prepared to pretend that would be enough. And guess what? Here we are, two weeks later, and it's not.

 

For what it's worth, I like the Brady Clark idea that's been making the rounds. That makes sense, in large part because it probably isn't going to cost a ton. And I've also mentioned Marlon Byrd (weeks ago), who now is making an appearance in the newspapers.

 

I guess you like Clark, but I haven't heard one other constructive idea from you. Is it someone better? Great. Why don't you say where Josh Fields, or Ray Liotta, or Tyler Lumsden, or Ryan Sweeney -- or some combination of them -- should be headed?

 

In short, I'm not the general manager, but in the interest in having a discussion with other White Sox fans, I like to think about ways our team could go, even if they're riskier. I thought that was the point of this board. And with our bullpen in the state it's in, with that being the first priority, our team needs to be creative about centerfield.

 

What are you interested in? I guess it's just terming players as "s***" and dismissing other posters.

 

So be it. But let's be clear that's what you're about. It'll make life easier going forward.

[YASNY]

Mercy. The only real problem I had with the Erstad idea was that he's a lefty and we need a RH hitting OF'er.

 

I believe Dye has 1 gold glove, btw.

[Friend of Nordhagen]

Mercy. The only real problem I had with the Erstad idea was that he's a lefty and we need a RH hitting OF'er.

 

I believe Dye has 1 gold glove, btw.

 

Mercy, indeed.

[DBAHO]

Dye's career OPS is .814, his career average is .274 and his career obp is .337.

 

Erstad's career OPS is .757, his career average is .287 and his career obp is .341.

 

So Dye has a higher OPS. Erstad has a higher average and OBP.

Darin Erstad's splits over the past 6 seasons.

2001 - .258/.331/.360

2002 - .283/.313/.389

2003 - .252/.309/.333

2004 - .295/.346/.400

2005 - .273/.325/.371

2006 - .238/.279/.350

 

None of those 6 seasons are higher than his career OPS of .757.

 

The fact is Brady Clark, Ryan Church etc. are much better options than Erstad, who's overpaid, injury prone, and will be very lucky to get a 1/3rd of what he's making now, next season.

[Rowand44]

Darin Erstad's splits over the past 6 seasons.

2001 - .258/.331/.360

2002 - .283/.313/.389

2003 - .252/.309/.333

2004 - .295/.346/.400

2005 - .273/.325/.371

2006 - .238/.279/.350

 

None of those 6 seasons are higher than his career OPS of .757.

 

The fact is Brady Clark, Ryan Church etc. are much better options than Erstad, who's overpaid, injury prone, and will be very lucky to get a 1/3rd of what he's making now, next season.

Ryan Church= this year's Chad Tracy?

[DBAHO]

Ryan Church= this year's Chad Tracy?

Yeah. At least I wasn't wrong on Chad regressing this season hey.

[Friend of Nordhagen]

Darin Erstad's splits over the past 6 seasons.

2001 - .258/.331/.360

2002 - .283/.313/.389

2003 - .252/.309/.333

2004 - .295/.346/.400

2005 - .273/.325/.371

2006 - .238/.279/.350

 

None of those 6 seasons are higher than his career OPS of .757.

 

The fact is Brady Clark, Ryan Church etc. are much better options than Erstad, who's overpaid, injury prone, and will be very lucky to get a 1/3rd of what he's making now, next season.

 

Now, see, DBAHO, that's some actual analysis, and it makes sense (although Dye's OPS was down in the years before we got him). Anyway, I've actually thought that Erstad's status might allow us to get him a little more cheaply on a rental basis. And, again, with our bullpen being first priority, that was definitely something to consider. Plus, yeah, he has intangibles that our team seems to lack this year. But it seems for naught now.

 

I like Church in theory, but what's going on with him this year? And is he really a centerfielder? I just haven't seen him enough to say -- and I know you're a big backer -- so what's the scoop?

 

Like I say, the Clark idea seems to make some sense. That would be a good one to pull off.

[DBAHO]

Now, see, DBAHO, that's some actual analysis, and it makes sense (although Dye's OPS was down in the years before we got him). Anyway, I've actually thought that Erstad's status might allow us to get him a little more cheaply on a rental basis. And, again, with our bullpen being first priority, that was definitely something to consider. Plus, yeah, he has intangibles that our team seems to lack this year. But it seems for naught now.

 

I like Church in theory, but what's going on with him this year? And is he really a centerfielder? I just haven't seen him enough to say -- and I know you're a big backer -- so what's the scoop?

 

Like I say, the Clark idea seems to make some sense. That would be a good one to pull off.

Dye's OPS was down because he had to hit in Oakland for a few seasons, which is a notorious pitcher's park. He still hit around 20-25HR's a season while he was there IIRC, so he was always going to put up better numbers for us at the Cell if he was healthy. Luckily, he's done much more than that, and has proved to be one of KW's greatest moves as a GM.

 

Church suffers from the Jim Bowden "I don't like you" disease. Now he hits in RFK which is also a notorious pitcher's park, just like Dye had to in Oakland. He's a lefty hitter though, and I've been hearing we've got too much of those around lately. Still last season he had splits of .287/.353/.466, an OPS of .820.

 

This season he's only hitting .215 in 23 games. But he still has an OPS of .823, because he can hit the longball and has a very good K/BB ratio. But for some reason, Bowden decides that it's ok to have Royce Clayton as your #2 hitter and Damian Jackson in your lineup, but Church has to be down in the minors. So you could probably get him fairly cheap. And you'd have to make a move soon, before Bowden is replaced as the GM.

 

Washington got Majewski and Jon Rauch from us for Everett, and those 2 are their best bullpen pitchers not named Cordero. Most importantly, Church can handle CF well enough defensively, and he won't be arbitration eligible until 2008, so it also makes sense for the long - term, if you could get him for a prospect or 2 not in our top 10.