RUMOR

[fathom]

Using Thome as an example of how you can develop incredible power after coming into the draft without it may turn out to be a VERY bad example.....

 

Thome's been upfront about steroids since it became a media issue after '98. I'm pretty sure he's said that his way of getting big and strong is steak and eggs. I'm pretty sure that Thome is clean.

[3 BeWareTheNewSox 5]

Way to have an open mind.

 

He's being realistic, people who think otherwise are just slurping everything Uncle Bud feeds them. He (I guess not completely his fault, in a tough spot with Fehr, but probably all in on it) fooled Congress because those hearings (and the members) were a joke, they didn't know what I thought was common knowledge (guess not) that HGH was the way to go with it being undetectable with a urine test. The reason why the whole policy was a joke.

 

Also, I love Thome, but being upfront about it means nothing. Palmeiro was "upfront" about it under oath. I'm sure most of the guys felt safe with HGH being undetectable and the players' union having their back, but it's all crashing down with what happened with Grimsley. Not only did Grimsley have names, but they will go to his supplier, and I'm sure the FBI has tabs on other suppliers.

 

I will still love baseball though, it will be rough times ahead, but I love the game more than I love certain players (they come and go no matter what). I love pitching matchups and close games, but I also hopes guys are also able to hit more than 20-30 HRs

 

Also, as noted before, you can't tell anything by looking at a guy's size or stats. Not to mention it's different on TV as compared to standing next to the guy. And if you see them without their shirt on or just in a normal Tshirt, guys you wouldn't suspect are ripped/huge

[whitesoxfan101]

Thome's been upfront about steroids since it became a media issue after '98. I'm pretty sure he's said that his way of getting big and strong is steak and eggs. I'm pretty sure that Thome is clean.

 

To be honest, I was always skeptical of him until he got here. I hope I'm wrong, but there are a lot of reasons to believe his name will come up here. Again I hope I am wrong, and this is speculating on my part...I don't have facts or sources or anything to back this up. Then again, I think the names of at least a few members of those 90's Indians teams and 1999 and 2000 Yankee teams are going to come up as well, and those will be bomeshells as well.

[RME JICO]

The Pujols rumor is really deflating.

 

I think the initial news will be disappointing if it is true, but at this point, it won't be a big shock to me.

 

Every year there is a new type of drug coming out that is not detectable by current standards, so unless they continually update the testing like the Olympics, these problems will always exist in professional sports.

 

All the major sports should develop some sort of Anti-Doping agency that is independent from the leagues who governs all professional sports in the US. That would solve a lot of the problems with negotiations between the league and the player's unions.

[LosMediasBlancas]

Sorry to hijack, but is this HGH stuff the same stuff that is legally sold at GNC and other supplement suppliers and all over the internet??

[AbeFroman]

Check out this article written by Grimsley himself. He mentions Chris Mihlfeld himself as a player in helping him return to baseball so soon. I'm going to post the whole article in case it gets taken down by major league baseball sometime soon:

 

http://mlbplayers.mlb.com/NASApp/mlb/pa/ne..._news&fext=.jsp

 

Grimsley: Record return from surgery

07/20/2005 10:21 AM ET

 

It took just nine months and three days to get back on the mound following my Tommy John surgery. Initially, I figured I'd miss the entire season, but everything has gone extremely well. I haven't had a single setback and my arm feels great -- even the day after I pitch.

 

My sinker is sinking again and my arm should continue to get better and better. I'm told that when I get to the 11- or 12-month mark my, arm is really going to start coming back. That's when it's going to be really fun. It's wonderful to be competing again.

 

Plus, I'm rejoining the Orioles in the middle of a pennant race. That, by itself, makes it fun to come to the ballpark every day. The clubhouse is always buzzing. Every pitch, every at-bat means something. You're playing for a purpose -- to win a game and get into the playoffs. I really didn't have any apprehensions about trying to come back this quickly.

 

I gained a lot of perspective this winter when a twin-engine plane crashed into my house in the Kansas City suburbs while my wife and little girl were inside. While baseball has always been extremely important in my life, you tend to reorganize your priorities when you have a close a call like that.

 

My wife, Dana, and my 5-year-old daughter, Rayne, were literally 30 feet from where the plane hit the house. God must have had his hands around them to protect them. I was dropping my boys, Hunter and John, off at school when it happened. It just happened that there was a funny noise in the front end of my truck that morning so I called a buddy at a Chevrolet place and asked if they could take a look at it after I dropped off the boys. If I hadn't stopped by the garage to have the truck checked, I would have been just pulling up to the house or sitting in the room where the plane crashed through.

 

Our family was fortunate. The whole episode has served as an awakening for me. It was like God telling me, "Look, there are things that mean a whole lot more than baseball and I'm going to show you what some of those things are." I realize that now. I still have the love and the joy of competing, but I no longer feel any pressure in baseball.

 

That new outlook had a positive effect on the rehabilitation process. It relaxed me. It made me realize that anything that happens from here on in my baseball career is a bonus. I knew I'd been given another chance. So I told my doctor, Timothy Kremchek, and my trainer, Chris Mihlfeld, that my arm felt good and I wanted to step on the gas. I told them, "I want to push it and see if my arm will break. I'm not afraid because I don't have anything to lose."

 

There wasn't a whole lot of babying in the rehab process. When Dr. Kremchek told me that my arm wasn't going to break, we all decided to throw protocol out the window and write our own book. As I said, I didn't have anything to lose. I'd been written off for the year and I realized I'm nearing the end of my career. So I decided to give it a chance and see what happens.

 

I've had a couple of outings now and my arm feels fine. It responds even better than it used to the day after I pitch, too. For the first time since I can recall, my arm doesn't throb afterwards. It's difficult to express how blessed I feel to have been able to get through all that transpired through the winter and to be back pitching for the Orioles again.

 

I have to thank God first, but I also want to thank my wife, Dana. Without her I wouldn't be in the position I'm in now. She's been an absolute rock. You know the saying, behind every good man is a good woman? I want to amend that to say, in front of every good man, there's a good woman. She's the sane one. She provides the common sense and the stability to our relationship. Without her steady, calming presence, we wouldn't have been able to get through this past winter.

 

Now every day on the mound will be a bonus for the rest of my career.

 

A right-handed sinkerball pitcher who has previously played for the Phillies, Indians, Angels, Yankees and Royals during his 13-year career, Jason Grimsley was traded to the Orioles last June and underwent Tommy John surgery on Oct. 12. He returned to the mound on July 15.

 

This story was not subject to the approval of Major League Baseball or its clubs.

[southsider2k5]

Wondeful. Once again, since baseball and especially the players union has taken the "easy" way out for all of these years, all it takes is a rumor to bring down the rep of a player. Could Pujols be juicing, sure, heck anyone could be, and we wouldn't know it. But since baseball avoided doing the right thing for all of these years, we have to put up with this stuff.

[whitesoxfan101]

Sorry to hijack, but is this HGH stuff the same stuff that is legally sold at GNC and other supplement suppliers and all over the internet??

 

Nope, you have to have a perscription to get any form of HGH. The reason it's so popular (besides not being testable right now), is the fact that it has very similar affects as steroids do and apparently isn't as risky for your health. Now if HGH was legal and sold over the counter, this issue wouldn't be an issue at all.

[YASNY]

Wondeful. Once again, since baseball and especially the players union has taken the "easy" way out for all of these years, all it takes is a rumor to bring down the rep of a player. Could Pujols be juicing, sure, heck anyone could be, and we wouldn't know it. But since baseball avoided doing the right thing for all of these years, we have to put up with this stuff.

 

And it's going to stay that way until the union bites the bullet and allows true comprehensive testing.

[G&T]

Using Thome as an example of how you can develop incredible power after coming into the draft without it may turn out to be a VERY bad example.....

 

That's not really what I was doing. I was just throwing it out there for people to think about. But there is one big difference between the two guys. Pujols looks like a body builder that learned to hit a baseball, while Thome looks like a lumberjack that learned to hit a baseball. Bonds, Sosa, McGuire, and Canseco all looked more like body builders.

[whitesoxfan101]

That's not really what I was doing. I was just throwing it out there for people to think about. But there is one big difference between the two guys. Pujols looks like a body builder that learned to hit a baseball, while Thome looks like a lumberjack that learned to hit a baseball. Bonds, Sosa, McGuire, and Canseco all looked more like body builders.

 

All good points, but I think it's been proven that your body doesn't make you innocent or guilty. People of all shapes, sizes, and positions are doing illegal s*** in baseball....it's out of control and you never know who is innocent and who is guilty now. Sad but true.

[G&T]

All good points, but I think it's been proven that your body doesn't make you innocent or guilty. People of all shapes, sizes, and positions are doing illegal s*** in baseball....it's out of control and you never know who is innocent and who is guilty now. Sad but true.

 

That's true but, unfortunately, body type is all the info we can go off of right now. I'm suspicious of everyone, I just think Pujols has a higher suspicion level than others right now. I hope the names come out soon so we don't have to speculate like this.

[henry wiggins]

And it's going to stay that way until the union bites the bullet and allows true comprehensive testing.

 

 

That, and there has to be a test developed that can detect HGH. Is it banned by the IOC, and if so, how do they test for it, I wonder.

 

Edit: Googled a bit, found this: http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/5538709/

Edited June 9, 2006 by henry wiggins

[whitesoxfan101]

Whether or not there is a test for HGH yet is a point of debate, with contradicting stories from all kinds of people. Some I've heard say there is an HGH test through a blood test that was ready just in time for Turin, others have said they did the blood tests and kept samples "retroactively", so that when there is an HGH test ready, then can go back and check the blood samples for it. That issue is VERY confusing.

[LosMediasBlancas]

Nope, you have to have a perscription to get any form of HGH. The reason it's so popular (besides not being testable right now), is the fact that it has very similar affects as steroids do and apparently isn't as risky for your health. Now if HGH was legal and sold over the counter, this issue wouldn't be an issue at all.

 

So, what's the stuff at the GNC?

[Kalapse]

I'm not sure if there's anything in baseball I hate more than steroid speculation, it's so utterly useless and really takes all fun out of the game. What's the fun in just speculating about every damn player you can think of?

 

So, what's the stuff at the GNC?

Whey protein? Natural hormone support supplements?

[Balta1701]

That, and there has to be a test developed that can detect HGH. Is it banned by the IOC, and if so, how do they test for it, I wonder.

 

Edit: Googled a bit, found this: http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/5538709/

Little update beyond what that Google search told you about the HGH Test. As a test program, the HGH test was administered to roughly 300 athletes at the 2004 games. It didn't turn up any positive tests amongst those who were tested. But the IOC still doesn't have enough confidence in it to make it a mandatory test for everyone, and that says something.

 

MLB's executives take that and roll with it and simply say that there is no reliable test for HGH, and they're basically correct.

[Buehrle>Wood]

Whether or not there is a test for HGH yet is a point of debate, with contradicting stories from all kinds of people. Some I've heard say there is an HGH test through a blood test that was ready just in time for Turin, others have said they did the blood tests and kept samples "retroactively", so that when there is an HGH test ready, then can go back and check the blood samples for it. That issue is VERY confusing.

IIIRC, both cases are actually correct. Their not sure if the current tests for HGH actually work, so their being cautious with it and also storing the blood just in case.

[WCSox]

I don't assume anyone is clean. If you made me say one person off the top of my head who I don't think did anything illegal, I would say Paul Konerko. He might have the most unathletic looking body in all of baseball. And no, I don't think Pujols necessarily did anything bad, even if his trainer was involved. He seems like a good guy, and I'm not going to assume he's guilty yet.

I was actually suspicious of his 2004 vs 2005 stats, as well as many other players.

 

I'd be upset if Paulie, Thome, or JD were involved in this crap. Not necessarily because they wear the black and white pinstripes, but because they're all class individuals and great teammates who play the game the way that it should be played. Same goes for Pujols, A-Rod, Jeter, etc.

 

Wondeful. Once again, since baseball and especially the players union has taken the "easy" way out for all of these years, all it takes is a rumor to bring down the rep of a player. Could Pujols be juicing, sure, heck anyone could be, and we wouldn't know it. But since baseball avoided doing the right thing for all of these years, we have to put up with this stuff.

 

At this point, I'd be willing to endure another work stoppage if that's what it takes to implement comprehensive testing. This has gotten ridiculous.

[AbeFroman]

Here is a whole lot more fuel for the fire:

 

SI article... written three weeks ago, but (I think) just coming out today) on the relationship between Pujols and Mihlfeld.

 

Pujols calls Mihlfeld, "My best friend, almost my brother"

 

woah

 

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2006/maga...ction=si_latest

[henry wiggins]

Here is a whole lot more fuel for the fire:

 

SI article... written three weeks ago, but (I think) just coming out today) on the relationship between Pujols and Mihlfeld.

 

Pujols calls Mihlfeld, "My best friend, almost my brother"

 

woah

 

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2006/maga...ction=si_latest

 

The article is the cover story in the May 22 SI, which was on the stands a few weeks ago. I read the piece but didn't recall the trainer's name. Interesting. Thanks for the link.

Edited June 9, 2006 by henry wiggins

[AbeFroman]

The article is the cover story in the May 22 SI, which was on the stands a few weeks ago. I read the piece but didn't recall the trainer's name. Interesting. Thanks for the link.

 

Yeah... my bad... the story was out on May 22.

 

I appreciate the correction

Edited June 9, 2006 by AbeFroman

[henry wiggins]

Yeah... my bad... the story was out on May 22.

 

I appreciate the correction

 

Don't know if you've seen Deadspin yet today, but Mihlfeld is denying up and down that his name is in the papers. This will get more interesting, I'm sure.

 

http://www.kansascity.com/mld/kansascity/14781295.htm

Edited June 9, 2006 by henry wiggins

[Punch and Judy Garland]

Maybe he isn't in the affadavit. If he is, then his denials make him look terrible. We'll see. One person said HGH isn't AS harmful as steroids. That begs the question of how harmful they really are. Is it a highly dangerous product or is it a weak banning like Andro. And by that I mean that Andro was nver really proven harmful but was banned more or less for political reasons. I'd be curious to hear if anyone here has an above average knowledge of HGH and could explain it for us

[Steff]

Maybe he isn't in the affadavit. If he is, then his denials make him look terrible. We'll see. One person said HGH isn't AS harmful as steroids. That begs the question of how harmful they really are. Is it a highly dangerous product or is it a weak banning like Andro. And by that I mean that Andro was nver really proven harmful but was banned more or less for political reasons. I'd be curious to hear if anyone here has an above average knowledge of HGH and could explain it for us

 

 

 

Naaa.. no harm. Just linked to strokes and heart disease. <_>