LDF Posted June 7, 2003 Share Posted June 7, 2003 really with manuel? how can a team with so much hitting potential go south? can a team been soooo badly interferred with from kw that they lost their sight on what to do? i don't know what is going on, i am just ranting and asking questions. as much as i am a manuel backer, we need to make a change to shake this team up. do we start with a trade, firing manuel, or what? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chisoxfn Posted June 7, 2003 Share Posted June 7, 2003 Well I have seen plenty of problems with Manuel this year. Most noteable the fact that he never puts runners in motion and rarely drops bunts. He has to do things to try and get a run at a time, but he seems to still sit back and wait for 3 or 4 runs in an inning and that doesn't cut it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SI1020 Posted June 7, 2003 Share Posted June 7, 2003 This is my experience as an old fart on this board. In the business world I've found that leadership in any company or organization sets the tone. It's just not possible to have a successful organization without the right leadership, bosses,etc. Rotten imcompetent leadership causes demoralization which leads to the kind of results we're seeing now with the Sox. The White Sox were the surprise team of MLB in 2000 (seems so long ago now). Three years later not just the team but the entire organization seems in shambles. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
method Posted June 7, 2003 Share Posted June 7, 2003 This is my experience as an old fart on this board. In the business world I've found that leadership in any company or organization sets the tone. It's just not possible to have a successful organization without the right leadership, bosses,etc. Rotten imcompetent leadership causes demoralization which leads to the kind of results we're seeing now with the Sox. The White Sox were the surprise team of MLB in 2000 (seems so long ago now). Three years later not just the team but the entire organization seems in shambles. Amen! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JTC2784 Posted June 7, 2003 Share Posted June 7, 2003 really with manuel? how can a team with so much hitting potential go south? can a team been soooo badly interferred with from kw that they lost their sight on what to do? i don't know what is going on, i am just ranting and asking questions. as much as i am a manuel backer, we need to make a change to shake this team up. do we start with a trade, firing manuel, or what? Yes, I agree with that. But at the same time, when you have so many hitters struggling and failing to get the job done when it counts, the manager has to make adjustments in strategy, such as dropping bunts and hit-and-runs and double steals and such. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LDF Posted June 7, 2003 Author Share Posted June 7, 2003 This is my experience as an old fart on this board. In the business world I've found that leadership in any company or organization sets the tone. It's just not possible to have a successful organization without the right leadership, bosses,etc. Rotten imcompetent leadership causes demoralization which leads to the kind of results we're seeing now with the Sox. The White Sox were the surprise team of MLB in 2000 (seems so long ago now). Three years later not just the team but the entire organization seems in shambles. however that leadership you are talking about, manuel was at the helm, so? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LDF Posted June 7, 2003 Author Share Posted June 7, 2003 really with manuel? how can a team with so much hitting potential go south? can a team been soooo badly interferred with from kw that they lost their sight on what to do? i don't know what is going on, i am just ranting and asking questions. as much as i am a manuel backer, we need to make a change to shake this team up. do we start with a trade, firing manuel, or what? Yes, I agree with that. But at the same time, when you have so many hitters struggling and failing to get the job done when it counts, the manager has to make adjustments in strategy, such as dropping bunts and hit-and-runs and double steals and such. so what i am getting getting from you guys is manuel is the problem. kw is not pulling the strings anymore so it has to fall on manuel. if this is the case then kw is vindicated on what he was doing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SI1020 Posted June 7, 2003 Share Posted June 7, 2003 however that leadership you are talking about, manuel was at the helm, so? KW is the main guy poisoning everything here. Micromanaging everything and everybody, dumb trades, spies in the clubhouse, flipping over buffet tables. JM hasn't helped either. He didn't stand up to KW and he now manages poorly and without the slightest bit of passion. Both need to go. This season didn't need to go this way. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JTC2784 Posted June 7, 2003 Share Posted June 7, 2003 really with manuel? how can a team with so much hitting potential go south? can a team been soooo badly interferred with from kw that they lost their sight on what to do? i don't know what is going on, i am just ranting and asking questions. as much as i am a manuel backer, we need to make a change to shake this team up. do we start with a trade, firing manuel, or what? Yes, I agree with that. But at the same time, when you have so many hitters struggling and failing to get the job done when it counts, the manager has to make adjustments in strategy, such as dropping bunts and hit-and-runs and double steals and such. so what i am getting getting from you guys is manuel is the problem. kw is not pulling the strings anymore so it has to fall on manuel. if this is the case then kw is vindicated on what he was doing. I'm not saying it's all manuel's fault, but Manuel definitely has done nothing to ease the pain. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CWSOX45 Posted June 7, 2003 Share Posted June 7, 2003 This is my experience as an old fart on this board. In the business world I've found that leadership in any company or organization sets the tone. It's just not possible to have a successful organization without the right leadership, bosses,etc. Rotten imcompetent leadership causes demoralization which leads to the kind of results we're seeing now with the Sox. The White Sox were the surprise team of MLB in 2000 (seems so long ago now). Three years later not just the team but the entire organization seems in shambles. SI. Great post, I agree. My work softball team was predicted to be the worst team in our league. Well so far this year we've only lost one game and are in first place. It's all about leadership, our manager doesn't have it and none of our players seem to either. CWSOX45 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DonkeyKongerko Posted June 7, 2003 Share Posted June 7, 2003 In the Herald today Maggs said everyone has been trying to pad their own stats. The excuse I hear from Manuel everyday is that "everyone is pressing." I think this is because this team has expectations on it. Ever since the 2nd half of 2000, when people expected something out of this team they have turned in an inconsistent performance including the disappointing ALDS. 2003 this club has had the highest expectations of them all and been the worst offensive performer. I think Jerry Manuel needs to go. He is a good manager for a young team. He took over after the White Flag debacle and the Dark Ages of Bevington and brought some light to the south side. He is good at developing young talent but I do not think he is the man to take the next step. He obviously has not taken the pressure off these players because they press every single time they are up at the plate. That's why we are so anti-clutch. P.S. KW hasn't helped him by putting together the slowest, most right-handed lineup in all of baseball. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
clujer420 Posted June 7, 2003 Share Posted June 7, 2003 In the Herald today Maggs said everyone has been trying to pad their own stats. I don't know if that's a dig by Magglio or not, but if it is, he needs to check himself. His average has dropped 30 points in the last 2 weeks. He's one of the main reasons we've been so awful lately. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YASNY Posted June 7, 2003 Share Posted June 7, 2003 I believe what Maggs said was that everyone was trying to hit homeruns, and you can't win that way. I interpreted that as saying everyone is trying too hard to get the big hit, to break this slump. I don't recall seeing anything said about stat-padding. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
clujer420 Posted June 7, 2003 Share Posted June 7, 2003 I believe what Maggs said was that everyone was trying to hit homeruns, and you can't win that way. I interpreted that as saying everyone is trying too hard to get the big hit, to break this slump. I don't recall seeing anything said about stat-padding. Well I didn't see the article, so I don't know what exactly was said. But, Magglio must be doing something wrong at the plate. He's too good of a hitter to be below .270. He needs to start going the other way like he's done in the past (and that could be said for many other hitters on our team). The Sox are now 1-2 when I'm in attendance. Hopefully after tonight they'll be 2-2. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YASNY Posted June 7, 2003 Share Posted June 7, 2003 Well I didn't see the article, so I don't know what exactly was said. But, Magglio must be doing something wrong at the plate. He's too good of a hitter to be below .270. He needs to start going the other way like he's done in the past (and that could be said for many other hitters on our team). The Sox are now 1-2 when I'm in attendance. Hopefully after tonight they'll be 2-2. I agree with you here. It seems our guys are always trying to pull the ball. Which is exactly what I think Maggs was referring to. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Texsox Posted June 7, 2003 Share Posted June 7, 2003 What a difference changing hitting coached made I'll bet we could change everyone in the organization except the players and two months from now we will still be 8 games out if we hire another introspective thinker like JM. or The new manager comes in and creates a little excitement and fun. This team is dead men walking. I would like to see a trade or something to get a little fire in the clubhouse. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JTC2784 Posted June 7, 2003 Share Posted June 7, 2003 What a difference changing hitting coached made I'll bet we could change everyone in the organization except the players and two months from now we will still be 8 games out if we hire another introspective thinker like JM. or The new manager comes in and creates a little excitement and fun. This team is dead men walking. I would like to see a trade or something to get a little fire in the clubhouse. Like an Aaron Miles out on the field to spark things up.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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