Post game show?

[Flash Tizzle]

I feel absolutely no sympathy for Tracey. Yes, the situation displays Guillen's inability to control himself. But, I guess I simply don't care. When you think about the intricacies of baseball and what a pitcher is supposed to accomplish, not hitting a stational target such as a player indicates bad control. I don't care that he didn't honor Guillen's wish. I care that his control is so erratic he can't hit the strikezone OR a person when instructed. With Politte arrival guaranteed it was inevitable either him or Montero would be demoted.

 

I don't even want to hear anyone suggest this will mentally deflate him. Unless his manhood was insulted or the prospect of never pitching again was threatened, it's Tracey's duty to properly rebound. People who live outside of baseball deal with situations much worse than a manager insulting someones inability to hit a batter. I'm positive if Tracey pitches well in Charlotte he'll be promoted in September. I'm sure -- although people will certaintly disagree -- Guillen realizes he reaction was unwarranted.

Edited June 15, 2006 by Flash Tizzle

[Soxfest]

OG needs to learn you cannot do the over the top s*** 100% of the time, clubhouse may not appreciate how Tracey was treated in front of everyone. Guillen would be irate if a player did that to him. OG needs to learn alot about managing people.

[Flash Tizzle]

OG needs to learn you cannot do the over the top s*** 100% of the time, clubhouse may not appreciate how Tracey was treated in front of everyone. Guillen would be irate if a player did that to him. OG needs to learn alot about managing people.

He won't change. That's the Guillen we're going to have to deal with. He's a passionate Latin manager who -- more often than not -- crosses the boundaries.

 

I'm not surprised he did it. Honestly, I'm more upset Vazquez couldn't take it within himself to hit a batter. This is speculation on my part, but I believe he was more concerned with keeping Texas off base than retaliating for his catcher. Probably didn't have any confidence in himself and was unwilling to give TExas extra baserunners.

Edited June 15, 2006 by Flash Tizzle

[tpezz27]

If Vazquez knew AJ got drilled on purpose the first time....which he said he did......then he should have drilled the first Ranger he saw. Ozzie could have told him to just focus on getting the guys out first and to find a spot later to retaliate. By the time he pitches poorly and we are down 5-0, AJ gets drilled again and now we get a warning as well......basically taking him out of drilling anyone without a suspension......If it didn't go this way and he just didn't retaliate then I lose all respect for him and he doesn't belong being part of this team!

 

Now on to Tracey.....I don't care how many big league games you've played in, you defend your teammates period. If you are told to drill Blaylock, you better damn well drill him. This is your time to show you are a member of the Chicago White Sox Team......you stick up for them and do the job at hand. Tracey showed him that he isn't willing to do what it takes when he is called upon....and therefore doesn't belong on the team. I don't feel bad for him because in this particular situation he wasn't called upon to get Blaylock out....he was supposed to hit him and couldn't or wouldn't do the job!

 

 

Right now im a little harder on Tracey then I am on Vazquez because it was clear his manager told him to hit Blaylock. We don't know what discussions Ozzie and Vazquez might have had! I do have to add Vazquez shouldn't have been told to hit someone....he should have just done it unless instructed not too!

Edited June 15, 2006 by tpezz27

[Wanne]

We have a player that was beaned not once, but twice without any retaliation. You realize that bad blood isnt going to go away just because AJ and crew says its over. You do realize that without getting redemption for our hit batters that if AJ or more so any player on the sox gets beaned tomorrow its more likely to be a flashpoint for a bench clearer than some player getting beaned in retaliation. Blalock and the entire Texas Ranger bench knew with the game out of hand, and the fact that AJ was plunked twice that someone was going to get nailed. Its a part of the game that has been there for a very very long time.

 

I blame this entire night on the fact that Vaz was too much of a pussy not to plunk someone right after AJ was beaned the first time. It would of been over and done with. Now with AJ getting plunked twice this has a higher probablility for flashboil than anything.

 

Absolutely! Ya know...I'm just flat out gettin tired of this s***. Not only does our catcher get friggin sucker punched (and not really a goddamn thing has been done about it)....now our guys have targets on their backs...especially AJ (for whatever goddamn reason). Ozzie went off...sure. Call it cool or not...whatever...maybe some of ya could send Tracey some flowers or somethin' if you're worried about his little feelers...but Ozzie should go off...and not just at his team...but in general that this s*** needs to stop...period!

[Capn12]

Just to reiterate, for the 4 MILLIONTH time...Tracey threw at Blaylock not once, but TWICE. The fault here is on Vasquez, NOT Tracey...but instead, Ozzie rips into Tracey in plain view...its bushleague.

[BobDylan]

I get the feeling some posters around here haven't played much baseball, if any.

 

It's the SHOW kid, you're on the team of the WORLD SERIES CHAMPIONS. The line of people that want to be in your shoes might as well be endless. You want to be on the champs? Earn your stripes. Hit him in the ribs.

 

Absolutely! Ya know...I'm just flat out gettin tired of this s***. Not only does our catcher get friggin sucker punched (and not really a goddamn thing has been done about it)....now our guys have targets on their backs...especially AJ (for whatever goddamn reason). Ozzie went off...sure. Call it cool or not...whatever...maybe some of ya could send Tracey some flowers or somethin' if you're worried about his little feelers...but Ozzie should go off...and not just at his team...but in general that this s*** needs to stop...period!

 

They're 1.5 games back of the AL Central lead. The last thing the White Sox need is to sit Vazquez because of a suspension. There are two AAA players on the team...any want to stay? Make them do it.

Edited June 15, 2006 by BobDylan

[Capn12]

Thing is BD, had Javy retaliated right away, and he says he knew it was intentional the first time, then its all a moot point. This falls on Vasquez's shoulders, not Tracey. Ozzies anger was harshly misplaced.

[BobDylan]

Thing is BD, had Javy retaliated right away, and he says he knew it was intentional the first time, then its all a moot point. This falls on Vasquez's shoulders, not Tracey. Ozzies anger was harshly misplaced.

 

Not in today's game. Instigation will get you suspended these days.

[Flash Tizzle]

Just to reiterate, for the 4 MILLIONTH time...Tracey threw at Blaylock not once, but TWICE. The fault here is on Vasquez, NOT Tracey...but instead, Ozzie rips into Tracey in plain view...its bushleague.

I realize most people will openly criticize Guillen, but is no one else maddened by the fact Tracey missed Blalock not once, but TWICE. Either his control is terrible enough to where he can't willfully find his location, or he was too emotionally charged -- in a blowout, mind you -- to hit his target. How could we expect contributions in key situations from someone who can't fulfill a simple assignment.

[shawnhillegas]

Just to reiterate, for the 4 MILLIONTH time...Tracey threw at Blaylock not once, but TWICE. The fault here is on Vasquez, NOT Tracey...but instead, Ozzie rips into Tracey in plain view...its bushleague.

 

 

Threw inside to Blalock, not at him. If Blalock can hit it, it doesnt count.

[nitetrain8601]

After reading this thread I'm glad you guys set me straight. Our pitchers are in the business of hitting batters, not getting them out. Just like last year when we won the World Series!

 

Look, I like bean wars as much as the next guy if not more, but to publicly humiliate a rookie reliever who actually is a pretty decent pitcher with great stuff and little control and who also delivered an out, makes no f***ing sense to me. This is one of the only times I'm going to have to disagree with Ozzie big time and the way he handled things.

[Capn12]

Threw inside to Blalock, not at him. If Blalock can hit it, it doesnt count.

 

If you have mlb.tv, go back and watch it again. Go to about 1:53:40 into it. Watch that first pitch from Tracey again, and tell me he wasn't throwing at him....that was NOT just an inside pitch. The intent was there. I would show the screenshot from mlb.tv myself if I thought it was legal.

[mmmmmbeeer]

What got me alittle irritated from their posts is that they get on a rookie instead of a veteran (Vazquez) who basically saw what was going on and didn't even do anything whatsoever. Why not yell at Javy then? Why sent a pitcher with no control and try and hit a batter and basically cost some fines and suspensions?

 

 

Much like Oz brought in Sean with a specific job, a measured maneuver based on the repercussions of the "job", I don't doubt for a minute that Oz f***ing told Javy not too bean anyone. He probably relayed that fact to AJ as well. Who is going to step in to take Javy's start? BMac because he's finally in a set role in the pen? It would have been ridiculously STUPID to have Javy hit a batsman after the warnings were issued.

 

As far as Tracy getting demoted, I think this makes a big statement to the team. What I'm upset about, which may coincide with what bothered Oz, is the fact that Blalock even got a pitch to put the bat on. I understand some of your points about him having no control, but he threw a fastball over the plate when he was supposed to be beaning a guy. Had he failed to hit him but threw 4 pitches at Blalock, resulting in a walk, I wouldn't have been pissed. He f***ing threw 2 inside and then came out over the plate. That's b.s. That's chickens***.

 

I know one thing, if/when Tracy gets back to the majors, he'll pitch inside without hesitation and pick up his teamates. Oz just taught that kid a valuable lesson.

[Capn12]

Warnings werent issued till after the SECOND time AJ got hit. Javy said after the game that he knew AJ was getting thrown at the first time it happened....he had time to return the favor, so to speak. Most MLB umps aren't gonna throw a pitcher out arbitrarily without issuing a warning first, which would have happened AFTER Javy returned the favor theoretically.

[mmmmmbeeer]

OG needs to learn you cannot do the over the top s*** 100% of the time, clubhouse may not appreciate how Tracey was treated in front of everyone. Guillen would be irate if a player did that to him. OG needs to learn alot about managing people.

 

The rest of the team is going to be pissed at Ozzie for getting onto the guy who didn't stick up for them? That almost makes sense.

[Al Lopez's Ghost]

Just to reiterate, for the 4 MILLIONTH time...Tracey threw at Blaylock not once, but TWICE. The fault here is on Vasquez, NOT Tracey...but instead, Ozzie rips into Tracey in plain view...its bushleague.

I think it was Ozzie who said last week words to the effect - it's not enough to try, we don't try to pay you, you have to do the job. Tracey had to hit somebody and didn't. His career isn't over, but he can go away for a while and think about things as far as I'm concerned. I believe the clubhouse will understand what Ozzie did to Tracey and have no problem with it. Memo to Sean Tracey: This is hardball, let us know when you want to play it.

[Dick Allen]

According to the Tribune, Tracey was packing his bags after the game, heading back to Charlotte.

[beautox]

My dad totally owns a dealership.

 

+1 for the ATHF reference.

[southsider2k5]

i didn't see the game

 

so Tracey was supposed to throw at someone and didn't? f*** him if thats the case... thats total bulls*** on his b**** ass part.

 

Enjoy the time off. That's way too far.

 

Yes, warnings were issued.

 

None of this even happens if Javy just pegs some f***er after AJ gets hit the first time though.

 

Thank you.

 

...and why wasn't that f***er Padilla tossed?

 

Thanks again.

 

Not in today's game. Instigation will get you suspended these days.

 

It didn't even get Padilla thrown out of the game, hows that for today's game?

[pcullotta]

It didn't even get Padilla thrown out of the game, hows that for today's game?

 

Exactly. Even in today's game, they don't throw pitchers out until warnings have been issued (unless there is a brawl). If Javy would've just plunked someone after the first AJ pegging, warnings would have been issued and the game could've finished up without any of this bulls***.

[NorthSideSox72]

I'll throw mine in...

 

--Javy should have hit someone, ideally either the first batter after the fact, or the DH or catcher. He failed - not Tracey.

--Ozzie's decision to send an out-of-control rookie up later in the game to bean the guy was not a good one. And I do think at least one of Tracey's pitches was an attempt to hit the guy anyway. Better to have Javy do it - even with the suspension he might get. Long run of the season, that is emotionally what was needed.

--Ozzie's tantrum at Tracey was an unwise attempt to fire up the team AND get on Tracey for not following orders. Both may be good things to want to do, but Ozzie didn't handle it well.

 

--I think tonight's game could be very, very interesting.

 

 

Exactly. Even in today's game, they don't throw pitchers out until warnings have been issued (unless there is a brawl). If Javy would've just plunked someone after the first AJ pegging, warnings would have been issued and the game could've finished up without any of this bulls***.

Both benches WERE warned after the 2nd hit of AJ. Javy would have been ejected. I still think that is OK, but just to clarify, that would have been the case.

[pcullotta]

Both benches WERE warned after the 2nd hit of AJ. Javy would have been ejected. I still think that is OK, but just to clarify, that would have been the case.

 

I know. I was saying to hit a Ranger after the first pegging and Before the warnings.

[NorthSideSox72]

I know. I was saying to hit a Ranger after the first pegging and Before the warnings.

I don't know if anyone was sure enough at that point that it was intentional. Vaz said he "knew", but I don't buy it. Many may have suspected it, but you couldn't know in that situation - AJ's first at bat, he hadn't done anything particular to the Rangers or to the idiot pitcher... not much apparent motive there.

[winninguglyin83]

Two Things: I still haven's seen ANYBODY explain why Padilla has a reason to hit AJ TWICE.

 

That's wayyyyy outside the lines.

 

2 -- Farmio played for Martin in Detroit in 1973. Martin was fired by the Tigers that season for ordering pitchers to throw at hitters.