southsideirish Posted June 15, 2006 Share Posted June 15, 2006 QUOTE(Dick Allen @ Jun 15, 2006 -> 08:18 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}> How come Ozzie doesn't scream and throw water bottles and dress Juan Uribe down when he fails to execute a bunt? How come when Pods drops a ball and then takes his time going after it, Ozzie isn't waiting for him at the top step reaming him out? Rookies make mistakes. Every single one of them. Showing up your player like that will eventually bite you in the ass. Failing to get the bunt down is not the same thing as swinging away. If he does not put a bunt down on purpose then you are right, he should get the same beating. I don't know if Tracey didn't hit him on purpose, if he was afraid, or if he lacks that much control, but he didn't do it. If he really lacks that much control then he really shouldn't be on a major league roster. QUOTE(SoxFan1 @ Jun 15, 2006 -> 10:03 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Then why don't you enlighten us, oh informed one. :rolly On what happened during the game? I thought you just read the article. What the s***?!?! You came on here and asked what happened. You were the ignorant one because you lacked the knowledge and information. Hello McFly! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Allen Posted June 15, 2006 Share Posted June 15, 2006 The problem with how this was handled is that Tracey will always be known as the guy who pissed Ozzie off for not hitting someone, and whether its true or not, the guy who was sent to the minor leagues because he didn't drill someone. If Ozzie would have handled this in the clubhouse or the runway, away from cameras, Tracey would have been a guy who was sent down because a veteran was acquired. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shoota Posted June 15, 2006 Share Posted June 15, 2006 (edited) Why does Ozzie always order the worst bullpen pitcher to protect their teammates? Last year it was Adkins; last night it was Tracey, who's also a rookie. It's hypocritical of Ozzie to punish Tracey for not protecting his teammates when Ozzie didn't order Vazquez to hit a Ranger earlier in the game. I bet Sox hitters are more grateful to Tracey for attempting to protect them than to Vazquez, who refused to even throw a brushback pitch to any Ranger batter. Edited June 15, 2006 by shoota Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsideirish Posted June 15, 2006 Share Posted June 15, 2006 QUOTE(Dick Allen @ Jun 15, 2006 -> 10:19 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}> The problem with how this was handled is that Tracey will always be known as the guy who pissed Ozzie off for not hitting someone, and whether its true or not, the guy who was sent to the minor leagues because he didn't drill someone. If Ozzie would have handled this in the clubhouse or the runway, away from cameras, Tracey would have been a guy who was sent down because a veteran was acquired. So what? QUOTE(shoota @ Jun 15, 2006 -> 10:22 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Why does Ozzie always order the worst bullpen pitcher to protect their teammates? Last year it was Adkins; last night it was Tracey, who's also a rookie. It's hypocritical of Ozzie to punish Tracey for not protecting his teammates when Ozzie didn't order Vazquez to hit a Ranger earlier in the game. I bet Sox hitters are more grateful to Tracey for attempting to protect them than to Vazquez, who refused to even throw a brushback pitch to any Ranger batter. Why is the goon in hockey usually the worst in terms of skill? When he leaves the ice the team isn't losing a top skill player. If Vazquez or someone the Sox count on and need that pitcher can be suspended and we could lose him for some time. Right now we need all the bullpen help we can get and our starters have to produce. We can't lose one of them for any amount of time. I am sure all of the Sox players know this situation. Come on man. Tracey is a 25 year old rookie. He is young, but not a 18-20 year old kid. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3E8 Posted June 15, 2006 Share Posted June 15, 2006 I can't wait to see how last night's zany events will be depicted in the next installment of the Palehose Six!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Allen Posted June 15, 2006 Share Posted June 15, 2006 QUOTE(southsideirish @ Jun 15, 2006 -> 05:26 PM) So what? The kid didn't hit Blaylock, he got him out. The $12 million a year pitcher pitches to Blaylock and he hits one 10,000 ft. Maybe the wrong guy was throwing at him. Pitchers usually don't have to be told to hit someone. Buerhle wasn't against Baltimore last year, and he got tossed without warning costing him a streak of games where he went 6 innings. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gojimthome Posted June 15, 2006 Share Posted June 15, 2006 QUOTE(shoota @ Jun 15, 2006 -> 05:22 PM) Why does Ozzie always order the worst bullpen pitcher to protect their teammates? Last year it was Adkins; last night it was Tracey, who's also a rookie. The crappiest arm on the staff is the most expendable in the case of a suspension or injury-causing brawl. Vazquez would be a very large loss. Tracey is a loss we can laugh off. It's all excellent risk management on Ozzie's part. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoxFan1 Posted June 15, 2006 Share Posted June 15, 2006 QUOTE(southsideirish @ Jun 15, 2006 -> 05:11 PM) On what happened during the game? I thought you just read the article. What the s***?!?! You came on here and asked what happened. You were the ignorant one because you lacked the knowledge and information. Hello McFly! You just said you KNEW what happened. I thought you meant you knew exactly what happened. Yeah, I read the flipping article but that's not the entire thing McFly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Allen Posted June 15, 2006 Share Posted June 15, 2006 QUOTE(Contreras @ Jun 15, 2006 -> 05:34 PM) The crappiest arm on the staff is the most expendable in the case of a suspension or injury-causing brawl. Vazquez would be a very large loss. Tracey is a loss we can laugh off. It's all excellent risk management on Ozzie's part. Now that Tracey's gone, who becomes the designated beaner? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CWSGuy406 Posted June 15, 2006 Share Posted June 15, 2006 Couple of comments... First, why didn't Montero come in and hit him after Tracey "failed"? I mean, he's got the beloved "veteran experience", shouldn't he have been in the same boat as Tracey? Or, was it different, because Ozzie didn't ask Montero to hit him? Second, I think it's awfully easy to sit here and just say, "he should've planted one in his $*(#$& head!". But when the moment of truth comes -- your throwing a 92, 93 MPH fastball at another human-being -- I think it's pretty tough to actually do it, especially when the problem doesn't rely lie with Hank Blalock himself. If it was Padilla himself, that's one thing, but Blalock is just sort of a random player in the lineup. I personally would've liked to see someone get Barajas, Padilla's battery mate, in the ribs. Then again, I'm not all for the 'macho-macho' bulls*** in the first place. Win the f***ing game today, take three out of four -- that's enough to rub in Showhalter's face. Third, has anyone rewatched the game? Tracey actually goes inside on all three pitches, yes? At that point of the game, I was half-in half-out, but I seem to recall Tracey throwing one that forced Blalock out of the way (towards his legs). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shoota Posted June 15, 2006 Share Posted June 15, 2006 QUOTE(Contreras @ Jun 15, 2006 -> 05:34 PM) The crappiest arm on the staff is the most expendable in the case of a suspension or injury-causing brawl. Vazquez would be a very large loss. Tracey is a loss we can laugh off. It's all excellent risk management on Ozzie's part. I understand that resoning and disagree with it. I believe all pitchers have the duty to protect their teammates, not just the last man on the staff. You're wrong in stating that retaliation from Vazquez would have been "a very large loss." Vazquez had an opportunity to retaliate after AJP was hit the first time, but didn't, even though he thought Padilla hit AJP on purpose in that at bat. Since no warnings had been issued at that time, it's unlikely Vazquez would have even been thrown out, let alone suspended. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3RDBASE Posted June 15, 2006 Share Posted June 15, 2006 I understand that resoning and disagree with it. I believe all pitchers have the duty to protect their teammates, not just the last man on the staff. You're wrong in stating that retaliation from Vazquez would have been "a very large loss." Vazquez had an opportunity to retaliate after AJP was hit the first time, but didn't, even though he thought Padilla hit AJP on purpose in that at bat. Since no warnings had been issued at that time, it's unlikely Vazquez would have even been thrown out, let alone suspended. AU CONTRAIRE MON FRARE...MB got thrown out last year for doing that...ending his streak, remember...so it could have happened...so your wrong as well. LOSE TRACY OR LOSE VAQUEZ...UMMM I WILL GO WITH LOSING TRACY Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted June 15, 2006 Share Posted June 15, 2006 QUOTE(3RDBASE @ Jun 15, 2006 -> 04:09 PM) LOSE TRACY OR LOSE VAQUEZ...UMMM I WILL GO WITH LOSING TRACY Would it get Brandon into the rotation? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
klaus kinski Posted June 15, 2006 Share Posted June 15, 2006 Ozzie can b**** out a rookie all he wants. But It was classless. There have been countless times in Ozzie's tenure that we have NEVER retaliated-and no one ever called him on it-obvious cases that called for retaliation too. This was a hypocritical act of granstanding by a manager that still has lots to learn. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shoota Posted June 15, 2006 Share Posted June 15, 2006 (edited) QUOTE(3RDBASE @ Jun 15, 2006 -> 06:09 PM) AU CONTRAIRE MON FRARE...MB got thrown out last year for doing that...ending his streak, remember...so it could have happened...so your wrong as well. LOSE TRACY OR LOSE VAQUEZ...UMMM I WILL GO WITH LOSING TRACY Yeah, Buehrle was suspended for weeks after that incident. :rolly Contreras' Crew stated: "Vazquez would be a very large loss." I disagreed, and explained why. Your post only strengthens my argument by providing an example of a similar incident where the starting pitcher wasn't suspended at all. Losing Buehrle for the rest of that game was not a "very large loss" nor would it have been "a very large loss" had Vazquez been ejected last night. Edited June 15, 2006 by shoota Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gojimthome Posted June 15, 2006 Share Posted June 15, 2006 (edited) QUOTE(shoota @ Jun 15, 2006 -> 06:17 PM) Yeah, Buehrle was suspended for weeks after that incident. :rolly Contreras' Crew stated: "Vazquez would be a very large loss." I disagreed, and explained why. Your post only strengthens my argument by providing an example of a similar incident where the starting pitcher wasn't suspended at all. Losing Buehrle for the rest of that game was not a "very large loss" nor would it have been "a very large loss" had Vazquez been ejected last night. On the other hand, We have this... ...And what happens if Blalock rushes the mound throwing haymakers and dislocates someone's shoulder? Better Tracey than Vazquez. Edited June 15, 2006 by Contreras' Crew Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3RDBASE Posted June 15, 2006 Share Posted June 15, 2006 LOL...SHOOTA...you said it was very likely he would have not been thrown out...thats what i highlighted (AN EXAMPLE THAT IT WAS LIKELY)and noone knows what "could have" happened as a result he could have gotten suspended ala The big unit for example...so I stand by my post, and besides (not very important to this debate) MB losing his streak was a big deal to me and alot of other MB fans especially after no warnings. I just agree that if anyone were to be lost I'd rather it be Tracy not Javy who is more valuable to the team right now...ok?...OK!... Im done...keep trying. Its humorous. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CWSGuy406 Posted June 15, 2006 Share Posted June 15, 2006 Hmm... after watching the replay on Comcast, it's pretty obvious that Tracey did, in fact, try to hit Blalock. The first pitched was right at Blalock's elbow, the second was towards Blalock's shinn. I know to several people, it doesn't mean anything because he didn't actually hit him, but the intent was there. So, for whoever said that Tracey deliberately "disrespected" Ozzie, that's pure and utter bulls***. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shoota Posted June 15, 2006 Share Posted June 15, 2006 QUOTE(Contreras @ Jun 15, 2006 -> 06:37 PM) On the other hand, We have this... ...And what happens if Blalock rushes the mound throwing haymakers and dislocates someone's shoulder? Better Tracey than Vazquez. Your link detailing Randy Johnson's five-game suspension IS NOT "a very large loss." Johnson will have his next scheduled start pushed back one game. You consider that "a very large loss"? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gojimthome Posted June 15, 2006 Share Posted June 15, 2006 QUOTE(shoota @ Jun 15, 2006 -> 06:50 PM) Your link detailing Randy Johnson's five-game suspension IS NOT "a very large loss." Johnson will have his next scheduled start pushed back one game. You consider that "a very large loss"? I consider Garland being moved up a day a very large loss. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoxFan1 Posted June 15, 2006 Share Posted June 15, 2006 (edited) QUOTE(shoota @ Jun 15, 2006 -> 06:50 PM) Your link detailing Randy Johnson's five-game suspension IS NOT "a very large loss." Johnson will have his next scheduled start pushed back one game. You consider that "a very large loss"? And you are the best when it comes to wording what you want to say. Give me a break. Edited June 15, 2006 by SoxFan1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shoota Posted June 16, 2006 Share Posted June 16, 2006 (edited) QUOTE(3RDBASE @ Jun 15, 2006 -> 06:40 PM) LOL...SHOOTA...you said it was very likely he would have not been thrown out...thats what i highlighted (AN EXAMPLE THAT IT WAS LIKELY)and noone knows what "could have" happened as a result he could have gotten suspended ala The big unit for example...so I stand by my post, and besides (not very important to this debate) MB losing his streak was a big deal to me and alot of other MB fans especially after no warnings. I just agree that if anyone were to be lost I'd rather it be Tracy not Javy who is more valuable to the team right now...ok?...OK!... Im done...keep trying. Its humorous. Your argument is jumping around like Jesse White's tumblers. Yes, I too was upset that Buehrle lost his streak of pitching at least 6 innings per start, but that is not relevant to your or my point. Yes, I also believe Javy is more valuable to the Sox than Tracey, but my point is that Vazquez had an opportunity to retaliate after the first time AJP had been hit because it was before the warnings. If Cuzzi didn't eject Padilla for hitting the same Sox player on the first pitch TWO TIMES, it's UNLIKELY that Vazquez would have been ejected and thus suspended had he hit one Ranger batter. Also, I did not say "it was very likely [Vazquez] would have not been thrown out" as you claim, I said, "Since no warnings had been issued at that time, it's unlikely Vazquez would have even been thrown out, let alone suspended." Edited June 16, 2006 by shoota Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steff Posted June 16, 2006 Share Posted June 16, 2006 QUOTE(southsideirish @ Jun 15, 2006 -> 05:01 PM) I'm not ignorant. I KNOW what happened. I am INFORMED of what happened. SoxFan is ignorant on this matter. And if that is what you mean then ok I agree. I don't believe for a second that you rely on the message board for 99.9% of the news. I am sure you listen to the radio, read the internet, and watch some TV. Then he shouldn't be in the major leagues anyway. Good riddance. Not ignorant as in not informed... ignorant as in rude. He asked a question and you snap at him to look it up? Who the hell made you the MB police to tell people what they can and can't ask? Rhetorical. I'm aware you're informed. Did I say you weren't? No. Believe it. I rarely pick up a newspaper and if I do it's to do the crossword, or check movie listings. Hell, I have 71 newspapers from last offseason that I never even looked at and will someday (Jim hopes) will make a scrapbook from. I don't watch the news other than for the weather and traffic, if I'm listening to the radio it's Howard on Sirius or a baseball game on XM, and the internet stuff I read I get from THIS BOARD and the posters HERE. Good riddance.. I wish it were that easy sometimes.. :headshake Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shoota Posted June 16, 2006 Share Posted June 16, 2006 QUOTE(Contreras @ Jun 15, 2006 -> 06:54 PM) I consider Garland being moved up a day a very large loss. Which, if it happened, might not even result in an extra start on the year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soxfest Posted June 16, 2006 Share Posted June 16, 2006 OG was out of line to yell in front of everyone. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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