Was Guillen Out Of Line Last Night?

[LVSoxFan]

I still don't like how this happened at all. I know Ozzie's a ballbuster but the kid is a ROOKIE for God's sake making his third appearance.

 

That was unnecessary. I think Ozzie's frustration with the umps--plus he hates Texas--boiled over and I think Tracey was the unlucky sap who took the brunt of it. He just happened to be the wrong guy at the wrong time.

 

I didn't mind Ozzie laying into what's his face on the Cubs (after the AJ punching game) for being sent down and mouthing off before he was, but this is one of your guys. Think about it: this kid is psyched to be on the Sox, psyched to be brought up and wants to do well--and to get sent down for this? It just don't seem right...

[G&T]

I do, i see him HE GONE in a month or two. Ozzie and KW are very big on team first.

 

Well it's not like he didn't try to hit him, he just happened to miss. Personally I don't know if Tracey was ever going to make it in the big leagues, but if this totally ruins his chances with the White Sox then I think that's "total BS." I also think it was unfair to put him in that situation.

Having said all that, you are probably right.

[Jimbo's Drinker]

Well it's not like he didn't try to hit him, he just happened to miss. Personally I don't know if Tracey was ever going to make it in the big leagues, but if this totally ruins his chances with the White Sox then I think that's "total BS." I also think it was unfair to put him in that situation.

Having said all that, you are probably right.

 

 

like ive said 5x, throw behind him, if your stuff is so s***ty.

[southsideirish]

QUOTE(Steff @ Jun 15, 2006 -> 07:02 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I chew, and have been chewed... NEVER in front of peers.

 

It is very hard to compare normal everyday things and your job to a team sport. It is a lot different.

[southsider2k5]

It is very hard to compare normal everyday things and your job to a team sport. It is a lot different.

 

I work in a very intense industry where millions dollars are at stake at every single second. Believe me, I understand what goes on in the the pressure aspect of things, maybe more so than professtional athletes whose contracts for the most part are guarenteed. Pods drops a fly ball in left, he doesn't lose a dime. I make an error on a trade, the potential losses are limitless. Many industries compare well to sports, we just aren't on TV.

[nfoligno]

New poster,

 

For what it's worth, I was listening to ESPN today at lunch. Dan Patrick and Peter Gammons were talking about this.

 

Both were backing Ozzie. Patrick did say he got carried away yelling at him, but also wrote it off saying that's ozzie. Both were adamant that nailing Blalock was not a wrong move. Neither blamed Oz either for sending a kid to do the job. Both were critical of the kid, though I would not say they were bashing him.

 

IMHO, several can be ripped.

 

Vazquez for not nailing someone earlier, after the first time. I said he knew, which I personally question, but should have stepped up and nailed someone prior to the warnings.

 

Oz. Not for sending the rook to do the job, but for losing his control so bad. I have no issue with the rookie being giving the dirty job, nor for sending him to the minors (where he was going in a few more days anyway), but no boss should be ripping their people in front of the world. That's poor management.

 

Tracy. I read the arguments that he "tried". I don't think so. I also read that he doesn't have the best control. BS. It's one thing to say a pitcher doesn't have the control to hit the strike zone when trying to pitch to a guy, but another to say he can't hit a guy. It simply should not be that tough to hit a batter. If he tried, he did so so timidly, he deserved to get ripped. More to the point, he should have kept trying until he got the job done.

 

Umps. A Warning to our bench? Please.

 

Sox hitters. How about getting pissed off, and showing up Padilla by taking him deep.

 

I think there is plenty of blame to go around, but I do think Tracy showed fear when asked to do a job, and have no issue with him being sent down.

[southsideirish]

I for one agree with what Ozzie did. He had to send a message that what he says goes. He can't tell the kid to do something and then have his orders dismissed as if they mean nothing. Do what your boss tells you to do. He can't have the players do whatever they want for their own selfish reasons. He has to let the rest of his players know that this won't fly.

 

Plus why not send out a kid to do the dirty work. If he gets suspended, so what? We weren't going to miss him if he did.

[Steff]

It is very hard to compare normal everyday things and your job to a team sport. It is a lot different.

 

 

 

You're right. My job is much more stressful.

 

 

SSI.. please, I beg of you, don't try to dissect this. It's a very general characteristic to be respectful to others. Ozzie doesn't have much of it. He could be different if he chose to be, but he chooses not to be. It is what it is. It makes him who he is, and a big part of the reason this city loves him.

[WCSox]

Ozzie Guillen isn't most bosses either. Trust me, I have been chewed out in front of everyone and behind close doors... It happens everywhere.

 

And if your boss is, say, a Distinguished Professor who would have to literally murder somebody to get fired, he/she has the option of chewing anybody out any time they want.

 

I imagine that academia and baseball clubhouses differ from the corporate world in the sense that the higher-ups aren't held accountable for bad behavior.

[southsideirish]

QUOTE(southsider2k5 @ Jun 15, 2006 -> 07:31 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I work in a very intense industry where millions dollars are at stake at every single second. Believe me, I understand what goes on in the the pressure aspect of things, maybe more so than professtional athletes whose contracts for the most part are guarenteed. Pods drops a fly ball in left, he doesn't lose a dime. I make an error on a trade, the potential losses are limitless. Many industries compare well to sports, we just aren't on TV.

 

Compare in certain areas yes, but not this. There are analogies you can make between business and sports, yes. I agree. But certain things don't translate. This happens to be one of those things. Just like when KW went off on his filth flarn flarn filth media rampage. This wouldn't happen with a fortune 500 company at a media covered event. However, in sports it is done.

 

I don't think this is all about pressure situations. I don't know if that is an aspect that differentiates professional sports from our every day lives. Sports in general can not compare to our every day jobs. Different rules and circumstances apply that just can not be compared. This happens to be one of them.

 

QUOTE(Steff @ Jun 15, 2006 -> 07:34 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

You're right. My job is much more stressful.

SSI.. please, I beg of you, don't try to dissect this. It's a very general characteristic to be respectful to others. Ozzie doesn't have much of it. He could be different if he chose to be, but he chooses not to be. It is what it is. It makes him who he is, and a big part of the reason this city loves him.

 

I disagree. I think he is respectful when he is respected. If you do not follow your boses' orders then your boss will feel disrespected. How can you respect someone who you feel just disrespected you?

 

Plus I never said your job was any more difficult or easier than a baseball player's or manager's job. They are just different and can not be compared in this area.

Edited June 15, 2006 by southsideirish

[watchtower41]

I do, i see him HE GONE in a month or two. Ozzie and KW are very big on team first.

 

 

Agree. Ozzie knew what he was doing with purpose, and did what he did to prove a point to the team, the rest of the league, the fans, and even the media for that matter, that his team is not just going to roll over everytime this bulls*** happens to us. Tracey is a whipping boy here, but as far as we know, he disregarded his manager and his team.....but again, that is what is in question. Nevertheless, we are not to bend over everytime someone throws at one of our hitter's, this was a long time coming imo. Tracey just happened to be in the wrong sitaution at the wrong time. Does that make it right?? No Did it need to be done the way it was?? ABSOLUTELY.

[Whitewashed in '05]

Ozzie was out of line to humiliate the guy. He was wrong for that. I feel really bad for Tracey, but I don't think he's ruined or has now become trade bait.

[rangercal]

Go Ozzie! I agree with him

[Steff]

I disagree. I think he is respectful when he is respected. If you do not follow your boses' orders then your boss will feel disrespected. How can you respect someone who you feel just disrespected you?

 

 

I don't respect my bosses a lot of the time. I don't, however, choose pubic as the time to tell them about it.

[southsideirish]

QUOTE(Whitewashed in @ Jun 15, 2006 -> 07:41 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Ozzie was out of line to humiliate the guy. He was wrong for that. I feel really bad for Tracey, but I don't think he's ruined or has now become trade bait.

 

Why was he out of line for that? He deliberately disobeyed Ozzie. That is disrespectful. He had a job to do and didn't do it. This is what he gets.

 

QUOTE(Steff @ Jun 15, 2006 -> 07:43 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I don't respect my bosses a lot of the time. I don't, however, choose pubic as the time to tell them about it.

 

Exactly. By Sean Tracey not doing what Ozzie said to do he publicly disrespected Ozzie. You wouldn't do that in public. Sean Tracey did. He had whatever he got coming to him.

[WCSox]

Why was he out of line for that? He deliberately disobeyed Ozzie. That is disrespectful. He had a job to do and didn't do it. This is what he gets.

Exactly. By Sean Tracey not doing what Ozzie said to do he publicly disrespected Ozzie. You wouldn't do that in public. Sean Tracey did. He had whatever he got coming to him.

 

Did he deliberately disobey Ozzie? Tracey has no control and threw inside to Blalock twice. Is it possible that the message to hit Blalock was never actually relayed to Tracey?

 

If Tracey refused to hit Blalock, I agree with you. But we don't know that for sure... and probably never will.

[winninguglyin83]

pulling him, b****ing him out in public and putting him on the first flight to Charlotte seems extreme for a kid who has been in the big leagues for a week.

 

Why risk ruining the guy's pscyhe for the rest of the season?

 

I'd be stunned if he ever pitches for the Sox again. I would expect him to be traded. Hard to imagine how you could bring him back into the clubhouse after he'd been neutered in front of his teammates like that.

 

Could have been handled more effectively in a much more private manner.

[Whitewashed in '05]

Why was he out of line for that? He deliberately disobeyed Ozzie. That is disrespectful. He had a job to do and didn't do it. This is what he gets.

First, you don't know that he "deliberately" disobeyed Ozzie. Second, you don't rip him a new one infront of everyone. Especially not a rookie.

[southsideirish]

QUOTE(WCSox @ Jun 15, 2006 -> 07:49 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Did he deliberately disobey Ozzie? Tracey has no control and threw inside to Blalock twice. Is it possible that the message to hit Blalock was never actually relayed to Tracey?

 

If Tracey refused to hit Blalock, I agree with you. But we don't know that for sure... and probably never will.

 

If he really can't hit the batter when he is trying to then he doesn't deserve to be in the majors anyway. That is just ridiculous. As mad as Ozzie was I find it very hard to believe that the message was never actually relayed. You can believe what you want and I will believe what I want.

[Harry Chappas]

What is the difference between Randy Johnson and Javier Vazquez?????????

 

Randy Johnson defended a teammate and got tossed possibly costing his team the game. Vazquez was pitching like s*** and had nothing to lose after the 5th by hitting someone. Why not have him hit Blaylock and end his night anyway in the 7th?????

 

I do not understand why Tracey was not left in there to hit the next guy. Why do we have to hit Blaylock??? Why not remove him drag him back to the clubhouse and berate him or wait until after the game if you want to prove a point ot the team. I find it hard to beleive that he was told to hit one guy or to hit someone was he t oexpect t oonly face one guy. s*** the guy is trying to stay in the majors I am sure he did not follow orders because he felt that was right.

 

I expect Ozzie to smooth this over today and Tracey's thoguht to be heard.

 

I think they were both wrong but Vazquez was the worse. Also why didn't Montero hit anyone its not like he had his good stuff going either.

[southsideirish]

QUOTE(Whitewashed in @ Jun 15, 2006 -> 07:51 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

First, you don't know that he "deliberately" disobeyed Ozzie. Second, you don't rip him a new one infront of everyone. Especially not a rookie.

 

Why don't you. If he disrespects you in front of everyone and doesn't do what you say then anything goes. Lets put this in better context. Ozzie was basically asking Tracey to sacrifice himself for the team. Much like he would ask someone to sacrifice bunt in the same situation. Now if that person decides to swing away instead of sacrificing he is going to get his ass chewed out in front of everyone. That is what happened here and it is much deserved.

 

Plus, you can believe what you want. If he can't hit a hitter, whether he has no control or he was afraid to hit him, then he doesn't deserve to be in the major leagues. I believe he deliberately disobeyed him.

Edited June 15, 2006 by southsideirish

[Whitewashed in '05]

Why don't you. If he disrespects you in front of everyone and doesn't do what you say then anything goes. Lets put this in better context. Ozzie was basically asking Tracey to sacrifice himself for the team. Much like he would ask someone to sacrifice bunt in the same situation. Now if that person decides to swing away instead of sacrificing he is going to get his ass chewed out in front of everyone. That is what happened here and it is much deserved.

Everyone has different opinions. Mine is that he shouldn't have chewed out Tracey in public. No one knows exactly what happened anyway.

[southsideirish]

QUOTE(Jenks Heat @ Jun 15, 2006 -> 07:52 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

What is the difference between Randy Johnson and Javier Vazquez?????????

 

Randy Johnson defended a teammate and got tossed possibly costing his team the game. Vazquez was pitching like s*** and had nothing to lose after the 5th by hitting someone. Why not have him hit Blaylock and end his night anyway in the 7th?????

 

I do not understand why Tracey was not left in there to hit the next guy. Why do we have to hit Blaylock??? Why not remove him drag him back to the clubhouse and berate him or wait until after the game if you want to prove a point ot the team. I find it hard to beleive that he was told to hit one guy or to hit someone was he t oexpect t oonly face one guy. s*** the guy is trying to stay in the majors I am sure he did not follow orders because he felt that was right.

 

I expect Ozzie to smooth this over today and Tracey's thoguht to be heard.

 

I think they were both wrong but Vazquez was the worse. Also why didn't Montero hit anyone its not like he had his good stuff going either.

 

I don't know RJs situation. If both benches were warned and he still did it then there is no difference. Vazquez would have been automatically suspended if he hit him. Ozzie probably didn't want to lose him for any amount of time seeing as how our pitching staff is built on our starters.

[SoxFan1]

Thanks everyone for not answering my question!

Edited June 15, 2006 by SoxFan1

[southsideirish]

QUOTE(Whitewashed in @ Jun 15, 2006 -> 07:57 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Everyone has different opinions. Mine is that he shouldn't have chewed out Tracey in public. No one knows exactly what happened anyway.

 

Ozzie was disrespected in public by Tracey. Ozzie has every right to do what he did.