Flag burning amendment headed to Senate floor.

[minors]

I agree with this vote. I really have the same sentiments that Sen. Inouye has which is I think it is wrong to burn a flag and would not do it myself but flag burning is a form of free speech and free speech must be protected. To able to have freedom in this country you are going to have to want it bad and that means dealing with a person who shouts at the top of his lungs something that you would spend a life time opposing. You want free speech then you have to deal with all that goes along with it including flag burning.

 

You have it all wrong. You protect the flag at all costs. And that was an eloquent speech but it really is total BS again, because I don't have to deal with flag burning. I also noticed that other than couple Rep-Dem switched lines it was the same ole damn hard line liberals like Kerry, Clinton and so on who opposed it. My question is why do they hate America so much yet still hold the office as US senator? Maybe because they actually don't really care about these issues and it just way to disagree with republicans and President Bush so they can scratch a few more votes in November. These are not patriots just scum suckers

[LowerCaseRepublican]

You have it all wrong. You protect the flag at all costs. And that was an eloquent speech but it really is total BS again, because I don't have to deal with flag burning. I also noticed that other than couple Rep-Dem switched lines it was the same ole damn hard line liberals like Kerry, Clinton and so on who opposed it. My question is why do they hate America so much yet still hold the office as US senator? Maybe because they actually don't really care about these issues and it just way to disagree with republicans and President Bush so they can scratch a few more votes in November. These are not patriots just scum suckers

Did you just call a recipient of the Medal of Honor and a man who lost his arm in a war a "scum sucker" because he voted against the flag burning amendment?

 

Yes, and this vote wasn't just a bulls*** midterm election issue used to stir up a base so anybody who voted against it could be slandered as "un-patriotic" by Congressional Republicans? Please -- the fact that this vote took place is a waste of everybody's time because there are many more pressing issues to deal with.

 

Again:

 

"Countless men and women have died defending that flag," said Majority Leader Bill Frist, R-Tenn., closing two days of debate. "It is but a small humble act for us to defend it."

 

"Our country's unique because our dissidents have a voice," said Sen. Daniel Inouye, D-Hawaii. "While I take offense at disrespect to the flag," he said, "I nonetheless believe it is my continued duty as a veteran, as an American citizen, and as a United States senator to defend the constitutional right of protesters to use the flag in nonviolent speech."

 

Ten-point Toss-up: Which Senator above lost an arm in military service to this country, and received the Medal of Honor?

 

Hint--it's not Frist.

 

Protecting flag burning isn't about hating America. It is about protecting the rights enshrined in the Constitution (which protects political speech such as flag burning). If you don't like to burn the flag then do what I do -- don't burn one. It's really quite simple.

[Rex Kickass]

You have it all wrong. You protect the flag at all costs. And that was an eloquent speech but it really is total BS again, because I don't have to deal with flag burning. I also noticed that other than couple Rep-Dem switched lines it was the same ole damn hard line liberals like Kerry, Clinton and so on who opposed it. My question is why do they hate America so much yet still hold the office as US senator? Maybe because they actually don't really care about these issues and it just way to disagree with republicans and President Bush so they can scratch a few more votes in November. These are not patriots just scum suckers

 

It's funny, I thought protecting the country is what we were to do at all costs. Ultimately, flags are just pieces of cloth. The land I live in, and the people who live in it are much more important to me.

 

Instead of spending two days on issues that could positively impact the lives of the people who live around me and in the land that I call home, the Senate debated whether or not it was legal to burn a piece of cloth.

[minors]

Did you just call a recipient of the Medal of Honor and a man who lost his arm in a war a "scum sucker" because he voted against the flag burning amendment?

 

Yes, and this vote wasn't just a bulls*** midterm election issue used to stir up a base so anybody who voted against it could be slandered as "un-patriotic" by Congressional Republicans? Please -- the fact that this vote took place is a waste of everybody's time because there are many more pressing issues to deal with.

 

Again:

 

"Countless men and women have died defending that flag," said Majority Leader Bill Frist, R-Tenn., closing two days of debate. "It is but a small humble act for us to defend it."

 

"Our country's unique because our dissidents have a voice," said Sen. Daniel Inouye, D-Hawaii. "While I take offense at disrespect to the flag," he said, "I nonetheless believe it is my continued duty as a veteran, as an American citizen, and as a United States senator to defend the constitutional right of protesters to use the flag in nonviolent speech."

 

Ten-point Toss-up: Which Senator above lost an arm in military service to this country, and received the Medal of Honor?

 

Hint--it's not Frist.

 

Protecting flag burning isn't about hating America. It is about protecting the rights enshrined in the Constitution (which protects political speech such as flag burning). If you don't like to burn the flag then do what I do -- don't burn one. It's really quite simple.

 

I was talking about the extreme left wingers ala Clinton, Kerry people have no care at all about this issue just voting this way to get some votes in November. And I was talking to Barons about that speech he wrote which even you have to admit is lame at best.

[KipWellsFan]

Extreme left wingers? You are totally nuts. At most they're slightly left of center. Please go to take some classes or something.

 

And voting against the proposed amendment, unless there has been some huge shift in american opinion all of a sudden, will cost them votes, not win them some.

Edited June 28, 2006 by KipWellsFan

[NorthSideSox72]

You have it all wrong. You protect the flag at all costs. And that was an eloquent speech but it really is total BS again, because I don't have to deal with flag burning. I also noticed that other than couple Rep-Dem switched lines it was the same ole damn hard line liberals like Kerry, Clinton and so on who opposed it. My question is why do they hate America so much yet still hold the office as US senator? Maybe because they actually don't really care about these issues and it just way to disagree with republicans and President Bush so they can scratch a few more votes in November. These are not patriots just scum suckers

You think that people who are trying to defend the Constitution and the right to express displeasure with the government (which is at the root of our country's existence) are scum suckers? You think that Senators who feel this is a waste of time and resources when there are issues like war and starvation and poverty hate America?

 

You baffle me in a way no one else on this board ever has. If you want to agree with the flag burning amendment, while I would disagree with you vehemently, I could respect your position. But it is impossible to enter into any sort of informed debate with you, when you make posts like this.

[southsider2k5]

You baffle me in a way no one else on this board ever has. If you want to agree with the flag burning amendment, while I would disagree with you vehemently, I could respect your position. But it is impossible to enter into any sort of informed debate with you, when you make posts like this.

 

With all due respect, trying to engage in a serious debate with minors is a complete waste of time.

[CanOfCorn]

In the immortal words of Michael Douglas in "The American President"

 

America isn't easy. America is advanced citizenship. You've got to want it bad, because it's gonna put up a fight. It's gonna say, "You want free speech? Let's see you acknowledge a man whose words make your blood boil who is standing center stage and advocating at the top of his lungs that which you would spend a lifetime opposing at the top of yours. You want to claim this land as the 'land of the free'? Then the symbol of your country cannot just be a flag. The symbol also has to be one of its citizens exercising his right to burn that flag in protest. Now show me that, defend that, celebrate that in your classrooms. Then you can stand up and sing about the 'land of the free.'"

 

All I have to say is partisanship sucks and I, for one, am sick of it.

[WCSox]

All I have to say is partisanship sucks and I, for one, am sick of it.

 

 

I'm shocked that this idiotic proposed Ammendment came so close to passing. And I'm ashamed that so many Republicans voted in favor of it.

[Gregory Pratt]

You have it all wrong. You protect the flag at all costs. And that was an eloquent speech but it really is total BS again, because I don't have to deal with flag burning. I also noticed that other than couple Rep-Dem switched lines it was the same ole damn hard line liberals like Kerry, Clinton and so on who opposed it. My question is why do they hate America so much yet still hold the office as US senator? Maybe because they actually don't really care about these issues and it just way to disagree with republicans and President Bush so they can scratch a few more votes in November. These are not patriots just scum suckers

 

Spot on, Minors. I concur.

To the Flag Burning Amendment!

To bringing it back during each Congress!

[CanOfCorn]

 

I'm shocked that this idiotic proposed Ammendment came so close to passing. And I'm ashamed that so many Republicans voted in favor of it.

 

I was watching the news last night on WGN and they were comparing the vote based on who could possibly run in 2008. Of course, all of the GOP candidates voted for the amendment and all the Dem candidates voted against. How about voting what you THINK?!?! No wonder Karl Rove has so much power...what a bunch of f'in morons!!! I mean, c'mon, this country is BUILT on the freedom to voice your displeasure (or celebrate)!

 

ONE VOTE!!! That's ridiculous. I'd write my congressmen, but what are they going to do...read it? Please, they've got staffers that go through that and promptly shred 'em.

 

I love this country and I don't like seeing my flag burned, but it's a symbol. If this amendment is EVER passed, it will cause a slippery slope that will see the disintegration of many more of our freedoms. And I hope, that if it is passed, that the Supreme Court doesn't vote partisan and shoots the damn thing down.

 

Ugh, this just pisses me off. I'm so sick of these politicians voting for something because they might not get re-elected or might piss the party off. How about using your brain?

 

Spot on, Minors. I concur.

To the Flag Burning Amendment!

To bringing it back during each Congress!

 

 

"I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it." - Evelyn Beatrice Hall

[Gregory Pratt]

"I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it." - Evelyn Beatrice Hall

 

"Satire my butt!" -- Bill O'Reilly

[WCSox]

I was watching the news last night on WGN and they were comparing the vote based on who could possibly run in 2008. Of course, all of the GOP candidates voted for the amendment and all the Dem candidates voted against. How about voting what you THINK?!?!

 

The vote didn't go straight down party lines. Mitch McConnell and Harry Reid, for example, dissented with their respective parties.

 

I really don't think that this will be a rallying issue for either party in '08. The border, terrorism, and Iraq/Iran/N. Korea are much more important issues to voters.

[southsider2k5]

The vote didn't go straight down party lines. Mitch McConnell and Harry Reid, for example, dissented with their respective parties.

 

I really don't think that this will be a rallying issue for either party in '08. The border, terrorism, and Iraq/Iran/N. Korea are much more important issues to voters.

 

14 dems did vote for this amendment as well.

[NorthSideSox72]

14 dems did vote for this amendment as well.

I'd be curious which '08 Prez candidates voted which way. I did a Senate count like that in a thread a while back on some other vote, but now I can't find the link. If anyone has it handy...

[southsider2k5]

Here is how the vote went in the Senate

 

enate roll call

 

How senators voted on the constitutional amendment to ban flag desecration. A "yes" vote was a vote for the amendment.

 

Democrats Yes--14

 

Baucus (Mont.), Bayh (Ind.), Dayton (Minn.), Feinstein (Calif.), Johnson (S.D.), Landrieu (La.), Lincoln (Ark.), Menendez (N.J.), Nelson (Fla.), Nelson (Neb.), Reid (Nev.), Rockefeller (W.Va.), Salazar (Colo.), Stabenow (Mich.)

 

Democrats No--30

 

Akaka (Hawaii), Biden (Del.), Bingaman (N.M.), Boxer (Calif.), Byrd (W.Va.), Cantwell (Wash.), Carper (Del.), Clinton (N.Y.), Conrad (N.D.), Dodd (Conn.), Dorgan (N.D.), Durbin (Ill.), Feingold (Wis.), Harkin (Iowa), Inouye (Hawaii), Kennedy (Mass.), Kerry (Mass.), Kohl (Wis.), Lautenberg (N.J.), Leahy (Vt.), Levin (Mich.), Lieberman (Conn.), Mikulski (Md.), Murray (Wash.), Obama (Ill.), Pryor (Ark.), Reed (R.I.), Sarbanes (Md.), Schumer (N.Y.), Wyden (Ore.)

 

Republicans Yes--52

 

Alexander (Tenn.), Allard (Colo.), Allen (Va.), Bond (Mo.), Brownback (Kan.), Bunning (Ky.), Burns (Mont.), Burr (N.C.), Chambliss (Ga.), Coburn (Okla.), Cochran (Miss.), Coleman (Minn.), Collins (Maine), Cornyn (Texas), Craig (Idaho), Crapo (Idaho), DeMint (S.C.), DeWine (Ohio), Dole (N.C.), Domenici (N.M.), Ensign (Nev.), Enzi (Wyo.), Frist (Tenn.), Graham (S.C.), Grassley (Iowa), Gregg (N.H.), Hagel (Neb.), Hatch (Utah), Hutchison (Texas), Inhofe (Okla.), Isakson (Ga.), Kyl (Ariz.), Lott (Miss.), Lugar (Ind.), Martinez (Fla.), McCain (Ariz.), Murkowski (Alaska), Roberts (Kan.), Santorum (Pa.), Sessions (Ala.), Shelby (Ala.), Smith (Ore.), Snowe (Maine), Specter (Pa.), Stevens (Alaska), Sununu (N.H.), Talent (Mo.), Thomas (Wyo.), Thune (S.D.), Vitter (La.), Voinovich (Ohio), Warner (Va.)

 

Republicans No--3

 

Bennett (Utah), Chafee (R.I.), McConnell (Ky.)

 

Others No--1

 

Jeffords (Vt.)--Associated Press

[NorthSideSox72]

Here is how the vote went in the Senate

Bayh voted yes?!

 

Damn. First strike. And I was beginning to like him.

[southsider2k5]

Bayh voted yes?!

 

Damn. First strike. And I was beginning to like him.

 

If I had to guess... It would be because Indiana is about as Repub of a state as you will ever see, and he knew he pretty much HAD to do so if he ever wanted to get reelected here.

[WCSox]

If I had to guess... It would be because Indiana is about as Repub of a state as you will ever see, and he knew he pretty much HAD to do so if he ever wanted to get reelected here.

 

Interestingly, the exact opposite is happening to Lieberman in CT. His conservative (for a Dem) platform may cause him to lose the nomination to a more liberal Dem, so he has to vote against it. On the other hand, Indiana is such a red state that even a moderate Dem would have trouble getting elected to Congress.

[Rex Kickass]

To Lieberman's credit he has never supported this amendment.

 

To Menendez's detriment he has. Although something tells me if he was vote 67, he would have been persuaded to vote "no."

[Soxbadger]

Beatrice Hall most likely actually took that from Voltaire.

 

But anyways this amendment died because a minority decided that they were going to stand up for the spirit of the constitution. I do not think this will harm many of the people who voted no, because if you look at where they are from it is mostly democrat strongholds.

 

Anyways I will never vote for some one who voted yes for this amendment.

[BigSqwert]

Obama Statement on Flag Burning Amendment

 

WASHINGTON - U.S. Senator Barack Obama (D-IL) released the following statement on the flag burning amendment:

 

"I cannot imagine anything more abhorrent to a veteran than seeing the flag they fought for being burned to make a political point. I too have great pride in our flag. I share outrage at the thought of it being disrespected. And though I have never seen anyone burn a flag, if I did, it would take every ounce of restraint I had not to haul off and hit them.

 

"But we live in a country of laws. Laws are what stop people from resorting to physical violence to settle disagreements, and laws are what protect free speech. And when I became a Senator, I swore an oath to protect the Constitution. Under that oath, my first allegiance is not to a political party, or to an ideology, or to a president, or even to popular opinion, but to the Constitution and to the rule of law.

 

"The Framers made it difficult to amend the Constitution because our founding document should not be changed just because of political concerns or temporary problems. And even the strongest supporters of this amendment are hard-pressed to find more than a few instances of flag burning each year. Those problems were left to be solved through legislation, and I support legislation introduced by Senator Durbin that makes it illegal to burn the flag without changing the Constitution. The Constitution has only been amended 27 times. These amendments include guarantees of our most basic freedoms, the freedom of religion, the right to a trial by jury, the protection against cruel punishment.

 

"Today, there are hundreds of thousands of U.S. troops risking their lives for their country, looking to us to come up with a plan to win the peace so they can come home. Across America, there are millions who are looking for us to do something about health care, about education, about energy. The Senate will likely be in session for about 50 more days for the rest of this year. To spend the precious time we have left battling an epidemic of flag burning that does not exist is a disservice to our country.

 

"As Richard Savage of Bloomington, Illinois wrote to me, "I am a Vietnam veteran and Republican. . . . Those who would burn the flag destroy the symbol of freedom, but amending the Constitution would destroy part of freedom itself." Mr. Savage is right, which is why I will vote against this amendment. Senator Durbin's amendment is a way forward to balance our respect for the flag with reverence for the Constitution."

[minors]

Here is what my great senator Frist had to say:

 

 

June 27th, 2006 - WASHINGTON, D.C. — U.S. Senate Majority Leader Bill Frist, M.D., (R–Tenn.) today made the following statement after the Senate defeated the Flag Protection Amendment by a vote of 66–34, an increase of 3 supporters since the Senate last considered the issue in 2000. The amendment would give Congress the authority to establish laws prohibiting the physical desecration of the American flag:

 

 

“Old Glory lost today. At a time when our armed services are defending America’s freedom in the War on Terror, it’s unfortunate that a minority of my colleagues blocked this amendment. The amendment simply returns to Congress the right to protect the American flag, an authority that existed for 200 years prior to an activist Supreme Court decision in 1989. It’s supported by all 50 state legislatures and countless veterans across the nation. Protecting the symbol of our nation’s freedom is important, and I hope the amendment’s support in the Senate will continue to grow. In the meantime, I hope America rededicates itself to respecting the flag, our symbol of national unity, especially when our troops are wearing that flag as they risk their lives for this great country every day.”

[CrimsonWeltall]

Bill Frist is right. The troops are sacrificing their lives to defend our freedoms. This is a very difficult job because we have so many to defend. So, for the sake of the troops, we must do everything we can to reduce the number of freedoms we have.

 

 

 

Also, +10 points for managing to sneak in a reference to "activist judges".

[minors]

Bill Frist is right. The troops are sacrificing their lives to defend our freedoms. This is a very difficult job because we have so many to defend. So, for the sake of the troops, we must do everything we can to reduce the number of freedoms we have.

Also, +10 points for managing to sneak in a reference to "activist judges".

 

Frist has done more in his life than most people will do in their lives like saving lives, so hearing liberals complaining about him really makes pissed.