Rex Hudler Posted June 9, 2003 Share Posted June 9, 2003 1. The kid has no power, mediocre speed, has hit into a ton of DP and is in low-A ball-- 3-5 years away from being a good ML'er which Pierzinki already is. Compared to Jeremy Reed, he AIN'T s***. 2. I am not sure about his defense, but if it was anywhere near Olivo's level, I would have heard it by now. Just pick out all the stats you don't like why don't you?? The kid just happens to be hitting .340 with more walks than strikeouts with 12 doubles and 42 RBI. He is also very higly regarded as a catcher with a very strong arm. He also is a left-handed hitting catcher, which is rare. No he isn't going to steal 30 bases and no he hasn't developed a lot of power as of yet, but most scouts feel he will with time. It is common for HS players to develop their power later. And just to be fair, we'll include his stats (and what the heck, compare him to Jeremy Reed)...... Name Year Level G Avg. 2B 3B HR RBI BB K OBP SLG Mauer 2001 Rookie 23 .400 6 2 0 14 19 10 .492 .491 Mauer 2002 Low A 110 .302 23 1 4 62 61 42 .393 .392 Reed 2002 Low A 57 .319 15 0 4 32 11 24 .377 .448 Mauer 2003 High A 57 .340 12 1 1 42 24 23 .406 .420 Reed 2003 High A 58 .330 16 1 4 46 39 16 .434 .480 Reed had 17 SB in 2002 and has 25 this year. He certainly deserves credit for that. Mauer will steal very few bases, which you would expect for a catcher. The fact that the Midwest League is considered almost Middle A (remember when the Sox had 3 Class A teams?) and a better league than the Sally League (although the Sally was loaded with pitching prospects last year) and Mauer is doing this while 2 years younger than Reed makes a statement. Not taking anything away from Reed at all (I'd love both of them) but your comment "Compared to Jeremy Reed, he AIN'T s***" is completely baseless. Spin it however you want, but anyone in baseball circles will tell you Mauer has a bigger upside. That said, if I am a Twins fan, I am happy with Joe Mauer's progress. If I am a Sox fan, I am very happy with Jeremy Reed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrandoFan Posted June 9, 2003 Share Posted June 9, 2003 1. I never said that Mauer won't some day be an All--Star, I just noted that it probably won't be until 2007 at the earliest. With Sox scrambling to win in this very important year being, pardon me for not being all scared s***less of The SuperJesus whom scouts consider to have a "higher ceiling". Good for him. 2. I think you are underestimating Reed's defense while overestimating Mauer's arm. That's a maybe. You are understimating the value of high-% speed burner like Jeremy; in fact his 480 slugging is closer to 580 if you count SB as semi-legitimate doubles. His RBI production is certainly nothing to be ashamed of. What about his unbelivable BB:SO ratio? 3. You are discounting Mauer's many GIDPs. 12 versus 4 for JR is it? I am fairly sure that JR has beaten more GIDP and taken extra bases wholesale ala Jose Valentin without it being scored as a SB, to say nothing of scoring 11 more runs. This year Reed has been better. I agree with you that both clubs should be fairly happy with what they getting. JR was low-profile and didn't command as much money, so I am very impressed with him versus the Hyped One. I am biased like that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted June 9, 2003 Share Posted June 9, 2003 Mauer will be a good player, but not along the same lines as Prior. He has the skills to hit .300 and have an OBP of .400 or so, but his power is marginal at best. Speed, none. Ding, Ding, Ding. We have a winner. no matter how good mauer ends up, he won't be a Mark Prior. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cerbaho-WG Posted June 9, 2003 Share Posted June 9, 2003 If I'm a GM, I'd take Mauer over Reed. You don't see that kind of talent at the catcher position very often. Even though I love what Reed is doing at the plate, I just think Mauer is more valuabel because of his position. If Jeremy Reed can ever learn to catch, then I'd take Reed in a heartbeat Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rex Hudler Posted June 9, 2003 Share Posted June 9, 2003 Ding, Ding, Ding. We have a winner. no matter how good mauer ends up, he won't be a Mark Prior. Probably not, but how many left-handed hitting catchers do you find that hit well over .300 and walk more than they strikeout?? I think Mauer will show more power as he ages. The position he plays along with his skills makes him extremely rare. Also, I think you are nuts if you think Mauer will not make an impact until 2007, Brando. He is doing basically the same thing as Reed while two years younger at the same level. What makes you think Reed is on any faster a timeline? If Reed is pushed, then I could see him arriving a year earlier, but 2006 or 2007 is ridiculous. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cerbaho-WG Posted June 9, 2003 Share Posted June 9, 2003 I'd say Mauer would make it fully in 2005, but I think a callup in Sept 2004 isn't out of the question. Reed might be on a faster timeline, Rex, mainly because he came out of College, and the upper levels of the Sox organization is pretty bare with position players. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rex Hudler Posted June 9, 2003 Share Posted June 9, 2003 I'd say Mauer would make it fully in 2005, but I think a callup in Sept 2004 isn't out of the question. Reed might be on a faster timeline, Rex, mainly because he came out of College, and the upper levels of the Sox organization is pretty bare with position players. I can agree with that. But he is not 2-3 years ahead of Mauer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrandoFan Posted June 9, 2003 Share Posted June 9, 2003 By the time he is 25, hell be around 220-225 pounds. Sandy Alomar Lite- shall we say 5 knee surgeries instead of 10? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rex Hudler Posted June 9, 2003 Share Posted June 9, 2003 By the time he is 25, hell be around 220-225 pounds. Sandy Alomar Lite- shall we say 5 knee surgeries instead of 10? Sorry Kreskin, I didn't have access to that crystal ball. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cerbaho-WG Posted June 9, 2003 Share Posted June 9, 2003 I can agree with that. But he is not 2-3 years ahead of Mauer. Oh, no way. I think he might be a year ahead of Mauer, especially with Pierzynski in Minnesota, but not 2-3. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rex Hudler Posted June 9, 2003 Share Posted June 9, 2003 Oh, no way. I think he might be a year ahead of Mauer, especially with Pierzynski in Minnesota, but not 2-3. So we both agree Brando is completely off-base? LOL Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cerbaho-WG Posted June 9, 2003 Share Posted June 9, 2003 So we both agree Brando is completely off-base? LOL LOL, sure thing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrandoFan Posted June 9, 2003 Share Posted June 9, 2003 I'd say Mauer would make it fully in 2005, but I think a callup in Sept 2004 isn't out of the question. Reed might be on a faster timeline, Rex, mainly because he came out of College, and the upper levels of the Sox organization is pretty bare with position players. Just because Mauer is not ML ready, doesn't mean I want Reed rushed. No, first we need to win this year. Then, we need to let JoBo and Harris play themselves out, either here or in AAA. It's unlikely that both of them fail so badly, but possible. Worst-case scenario, Sox will need Reed to be decent in 2005. Add to it Webster and hopefully to-be-signed Anderson and that other kid, and our CF is not a big concern. With Olivo may never have pure hitting talent of Maer, but his arm can be once-in-generation as he improives his release technique and his speed needs no introduction. Mauer is 215 at 20, if you want him to hit with power and adjusting for natural "bulking" that affects 99% players, if he is not 225-230 by the time he is 25, I'll be surprised. How many Gold Glove catchers do you know that are 6'4", 230 and have no knee problems? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rex Hudler Posted June 9, 2003 Share Posted June 9, 2003 Just because Mauer is not ML ready, doesn't mean I want Reed rushed. No, first we need to win this year. Then, we need to let JoBo and Harris play themselves out, either here or in AAA. It's unlikely that both of them fail so badly, but possible. Worst-case scenario, Sox will need Reed to be decent in 2005. Add to it Webster and hopefully to-be-signed Anderson and that other kid, and our CF is not a big concern. With Olivo may never have pure hitting talent of Maer, but his arm can be once-in-generation as he improives his release technique and his speed needs no introduction. Mauer is 215 at 20, if you want him to hit with power and adjusting for natural "bulking" that affects 99% players, if he is not 225-230 by the time he is 25, I'll be surprised. How many Gold Glove catchers do you know that are 6'4", 230 and have no knee problems? Don Mattingly learned to hit with power after he reached the Majors and never bulked up. Hitting with power can be a learned thing, not all about bulking up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrandoFan Posted June 9, 2003 Share Posted June 9, 2003 Just because Mauer is not ML ready, doesn't mean I want Reed rushed. No, first we need to win this year. Then, we need to let JoBo and Harris play themselves out, either here or in AAA. It's unlikely that both of them fail so badly, but possible. Worst-case scenario, Sox will need Reed to be decent in 2005. Add to it Webster and hopefully to-be-signed Anderson and that other kid, and our CF is not a big concern. With Olivo may never have pure hitting talent of Maer, but his arm can be once-in-generation as he improives his release technique and his speed needs no introduction. Mauer is 215 at 20, if you want him to hit with power and adjusting for natural "bulking" that affects 99% players, if he is not 225-230 by the time he is 25, I'll be surprised. How many Gold Glove catchers do you know that are 6'4", 230 and have no knee problems? Don Mattingly learned to hit with power after he reached the Majors and never bulked up. Hitting with power can be a learned thing, not all about bulking up. Hey, I don't have a time machine either, Socco, but I am going with odds. Both Pierzinki and Piazza are 6'2 yet neither are nowhete near being Gold Glove and I believe Mike was about 195 when he came into the league. This was before my time, so I am not sure. I still say Joe is 230 by the time he is Pierzinki's age and is starting have recurring problems, whether knee, back or other. Time will tell. Also, as he stars hitting for power, he's OBP will take a slide. Alomar Lite in his prime is what this kid will be in 3-4 years. I hope. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rex Hudler Posted June 9, 2003 Share Posted June 9, 2003 Just because Mauer is not ML ready, doesn't mean I want Reed rushed. No, first we need to win this year. Then, we need to let JoBo and Harris play themselves out, either here or in AAA. It's unlikely that both of them fail so badly, but possible. Worst-case scenario, Sox will need Reed to be decent in 2005. Add to it Webster and hopefully to-be-signed Anderson and that other kid, and our CF is not a big concern. With Olivo may never have pure hitting talent of Maer, but his arm can be once-in-generation as he improives his release technique and his speed needs no introduction. Mauer is 215 at 20, if you want him to hit with power and adjusting for natural "bulking" that affects 99% players, if he is not 225-230 by the time he is 25, I'll be surprised. How many Gold Glove catchers do you know that are 6'4", 230 and have no knee problems? Don Mattingly learned to hit with power after he reached the Majors and never bulked up. Hitting with power can be a learned thing, not all about bulking up. Hey, I don't have a time machine either, Socco, but I am going with odds. Both Pierzinki and Piazza are 6'2 yet neither are nowhete near being Gold Glove and I believe Mike was about 195 when he came into the league. This was before my time, so I am not sure. I still say Joe is 230 by the time he is Pierzinki's age and is starting have recurring problems, whether knee, back or other. Time will tell. Also, as he stars hitting for power, he's OBP will take a slide. Alomar Lite in his prime is what this kid will be in 3-4 years. I hope. You're going way out on a limb, predicting knee problems for a catcher! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrandoFan Posted June 9, 2003 Share Posted June 9, 2003 .You're going way out on a limb, predicting knee problems for a catcher! 5 knee surgeries reamrk was a border-line joke. Alomar's mid-90's bat and glove wasn't. If anything, Twins should be happy- they are getting an occasional all-star. I still like Olivo better, though. Once again, I am biased like that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MnSoxFan Posted June 9, 2003 Share Posted June 9, 2003 Brando, I thought you did not follow minors, I live up here in Minnesota and tho Prior was easy choice to be #1, Mauer is a stud, in fact, if something happened to AJ. P. Mauer would be starting now. He is that good defensively and offensively. Not sure who said he was slow either, for a C he is not. In HS he struck out 1 time, 1 time in 2-3 years. that is it. He has great eye and is very strong, all state QB in football, recruited like Wienke was to Fla State, also all state Guard in basketball. Take him over Jeremy Reed in a heartbeat and Reed is my favorite prospect. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rex Hudler Posted June 9, 2003 Share Posted June 9, 2003 Brando, I thought you did not follow minors, I live up here in Minnesota and tho Prior was easy choice to be #1, Mauer is a stud, in fact, if something happened to AJ. P. Mauer would be starting now. He is that good defensively and offensively. Not sure who said he was slow either, for a C he is not. In HS he struck out 1 time, 1 time in 2-3 years. that is it. He has great eye and is very strong, all state QB in football, recruited like Wienke was to Fla State, also all state Guard in basketball. Take him over Jeremy Reed in a heartbeat and Reed is my favorite prospect. Finally voices of reason are heard. Thanks MSF. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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