Ryan Madson

[beck72]

You went from wanting to trade Garland for him, to now wanting to trade a couple of above average pitching specs and a great 3B spec for him? That seems like a wide range of things you'd want to give up there, one end of the spectrum undervaluing Madson, the other end overvaluing him. I disagree that Garland is worth more than Madson, especially to the Phillies, because Madson has great potential, and his worth as a reliever has already been shown. Garland has little to no potential, and is only valuable as the amazingly mediocre SP, which IMO wouldn't be worth Madson's potential to the Phillies.

I started off asking what would it take to acquire Madson for this year. I made the offhand comment that Garland for Madson could be made in the offseason, with the thought that Jon would be worth more than Ryan alone. With Madson not a SP, and Jon a guy who could mow down the mediocre NL hitters, you are undervaluing Jon big time. Other teams would like a crack at Jon, esp. Philly. If you disagree, so be it. IMO, Jon is worth more than a set up man.

[AddisonStSox]

FWIW, Garland is worth more than Madson.

 

In what universe?

 

Trading Garland for Madson in the off-season would be a fantastic move. Absolutely first-class.

 

If I were a betting man, however, I'd put my money on Garcia to be pitching elsewhere.

 

And don't give me any of that, "he has ties with Ozzie" bulls***. Kenny Williams would trade his own grandmother. He knows better than that. He knows better than that schoolyard bulls***.

 

Garcia took a discount to stay with the Sox. He wants his and someone is going to give it to him this time around and it ain't going to be the Sox.

 

He gone.

[Dam8610]

I started off asking what would it take to acquire Madson for this year. I made the offhand comment that Garland for Madson could be made in the offseason, with the thought that Jon would be worth more than Ryan alone. With Madson not a SP, and Jon a guy who could mow down the mediocre NL hitters, you are undervaluing Jon big time. Other teams would like a crack at Jon, esp. Philly. If you disagree, so be it. IMO, Jon is worth more than a set up man.

 

So less than 15 starts into his big league career, you've already determined that Ryan Madson doesn't have what it takes to be a ML starter? That is amazing. I must commend you for your awesome eye for talent. Seriously though, the guy has a vast amount of potential, and has yet to show that he can't reach it. Garland, on the other hand, has shown pretty much throughout his career that he is an amazingly mediocre pitcher. So, you're the Phillies. You have a choice between a 26 year old who you know is going to be about average for you and eat 200 innings next year, or a 25 year old who may struggle for the next year or maybe even two, but could become a dominant starter. Which one are you taking?

 

In what universe?

 

Trading Garland for Madson in the off-season would be a fantastic move. Absolutely first-class.

 

If I were a betting man, however, I'd put my money on Garcia to be pitching elsewhere.

 

And don't give me any of that, "he has ties with Ozzie" bulls***. Kenny Williams would trade his own grandmother. He knows better than that. He knows better than that schoolyard bulls***.

 

Garcia took a discount to stay with the Sox. He wants his and someone is going to give it to him this time around and it ain't going to be the Sox.

 

He gone.

 

I agree on pretty much everything you said, although I'd rather see Garland go than Freddy if Garland continues to pitch the way he did in his first 10 or so starts.

[beck72]

In what universe?

 

In the baseball universe where solid and dependable SP is at a premium. Having a guy who can throw over 200 innings, who has never had an arm injury is worth more than a set up man. It may be only a prospect. It's not like I proposed Madson and Abreu for Garland. But IMO Garland would be worth more than Madson alone. Esp going to the weak NL where his ERA will drop into the mid 3's

 

But I'm of the mind that getting a stellar young set up man in exchange for a SP [either Garland or Freddy in the offseason] would be worth looking into

[Kalapse]

In the baseball universe where solid and dependable SP is at a premium. Having a guy who can throw over 200 innings, who has never had an arm injury is worth more than a set up man. It may be only a prospect. It's not like I proposed Madson and Abreu for Garland. But IMO Garland would be worth more than Madson alone. Esp going to the weak NL where his ERA will drop into the mid 3's

 

But I'm of the mind that getting a stellar young set up man in exchange for a SP [either Garland or Freddy in the offseason] would be worth looking into

Ryan Madson is still a starting pitching prospect even though he's been eased into a relief role. You act like his career outlook is only in the pen when the guy will probably be a starter very soon.

[beck72]

So less than 15 starts into his big league career, you've already determined that Ryan Madson doesn't have what it takes to be a ML starter? That is amazing. I must commend you for your awesome eye for talent. Seriously though, the guy has a vast amount of potential, and has yet to show that he can't reach it. Garland, on the other hand, has shown pretty much throughout his career that he is an amazingly mediocre pitcher. So, you're the Phillies. You have a choice between a 26 year old who you know is going to be about average for you and eat 200 innings next year, or a 25 year old who may struggle for the next year or maybe even two, but could become a dominant starter. Which one are you taking?

A few things:

 

*A lot of teams would love to have the "amazingly mediocre" Garland. Philly included.

 

*Avg in the AL [which you must think Garland is] will be above avg in the NL. IMO, Garland is above avg in the AL.

 

*Madson has proven he's a top set up man. He's done that for a few yrs now. No doubt about it. But going from that to a 200 inning per yr SP is tough to do. Maybe teams w/o playoff hopes can try to change set up men to starters, and allow the guys to take some lumps, lose some games, and sport 6+ ERA's. But a team like Philly may not have the same patience. And their fans are certainly not the forgiving and patient type.

 

Ryan Madson is still a starting pitching prospect even though he's been eased into a relief role. You act like his career outlook is only in the pen when the guy will probably be a starter very soon.

 

The trial period for him being a SP for the Phills is ongoing right now. If he flops, they probably won't give him a 2nd chance in the rotation.