Anybody like this deal?

[1549]

Does anybody here think Philadelphia would give us Joe Roa, and Gavin Floyd for Loiaza.

 

Roa is pretty old, but he puts up nice strikeout numbers before they sent him down at the end of May, and I think he could thrive in a bullpen role in the majors.

 

Gavin Floyd is one of the better lefthanded pitching prospects, obviously he would be great to have in the orginization.

 

I don't think Philadelphia would pull the trigger on this one, but if they stay in contention I am sure they would be tempted to.

 

Any thoughts

[JTC2784]

I don't think the Sox would pull the trigger on that one. I wouldn't give up a stud starter (or at least someone with that capability) for a couple of prospects that could turn out as good as Loaiza has been AT VERY BEST. If the deal were to be done, it'd be next season when Loaiza has no options on his contract.

[The Critic]

Personally, I don't trade Loaiza until it's certain that the team won't turn things around, and even then, it's gonna take more than that trade to part with him.

 

I say wait until the last week or two before the trade deadline, and try to rob a contending team blind.

 

...not that KW would know how to do that, anyway, but still......

[JTC2784]

Personally, I don't trade Loaiza until it's certain that the team won't turn things around, and even then, it's gonna take more than that trade to part with him.

 

I say wait until the last week or two before the trade deadline, and try to rob a contending team blind.

 

...not that KW would know how to do that, anyway, but still......

I say renew him with his option at the $3.5 mil... isn't it a club option?

[Texsox]

It depends on how tgis team should be remade. If pitching is going to be the key, I'd figure out how to keep MB, BC, and E-Lo. It would be very nice to build a steady rotation.

 

Come to think of a late season - contending team - trade I'm wondering if this is how Frank eventually rides off into the sunset. Perhaps to a team that needs a bat. Frank gets to maybe play in WS and JR unloads a contract.

[Cerbaho-WG]

E-Lo for Hamels and Floyd/Myers.

[elrockinMT]

We don' trade Loaiza, or any of the top starters we have. I think we should be trying to sign Colon to a multi-year deal, as well as going after Buerhle again. Make them offers.

[Rex Hudler]

Floyd is a righty, not a lefty and there is NO way Philly trades him. That would be like the Sox trading Honel (and Floyd is rated higher) or Borchard right after he came off his good year in Birmingham.

 

You don't trade the future.

[Jim Fainter]

If some team offers us a real shortstop, like Freddie Sanchez, we have to listen. I don't know what the Phillies have to offer us.

[southsider2k5]

If some team offers us a real shortstop, like Freddie Sanchez, we have to listen.  I don't know what the Phillies have to offer us.

I would like to see Jimmy Rollins leading off for us, in front of Jimenez. It would make the top of our line up dangerous. But I wouldn't deal Loz to get him.

[Cerbaho-WG]

Floyd is a righty, not a lefty and there is NO way Philly trades him.  That would be like the Sox trading Honel (and Floyd is rated higher) or Borchard right after he came off his good year in Birmingham.

 

You don't trade the future.

Dumb GMs trade the future. You have to try and see if the GM will bite, because if you don't do it, you'll never know.

[Soxfest]

No way

[Bmr31]

Guys cmon. Loaiza has a history of being a crappy pitcher and he will prove that again. His value is way higher than his talent right now. If we can get something decent for him, SELL HIGH!!!

[Soxfest]

Guys cmon. Loaiza has a history of being a crappy pitcher and he will prove that again. His value is way higher than his talent right now. If we can get something decent for him, SELL HIGH!!!

I am all for sell high, just not that deal

[Chisoxfn]

If the Sox are going to let Colon walk, etc. Then there is no point in keeping Esteban and the Sox should do what they can to get young talent in and Esteban can get some young talent in here.

[BrandoFan]

1. Sox are most certainly not out of it. If it were AL East/West we were talking about, maybe, but Minnesotta is simply not.that.good. If our offense was performing anywhere near the level they did in 99-02, Sox win 2 out of 3 in Metrodome, 2 against D-Backs, sweep LA, sweep Detroit, take 2 out of 3 in Baltimore, 4 out of 6 against A's, sweep KC and split the series with Seattle. No excuse fdor Sox nt being 12 games over 500. We can turn it around.

 

2. Baseball is NOT stock market, and even in there buying high selling low only works out roughly 40% of the time.....What do you get for Loaza? Would A's part with Harden? Would Angels give their hard-thrower? Would Pirates give Giles? Etc, etc, etc......I do NOT want Caruso-Vining-Howry type returns, and I am afraid that's exactly what Kenny would get.

 

3. I was indeed saying "trade Eldred, Baldwin and Parque" in July 2000 was because they were all pitching over their heads and their ERA's were still relatively unimpressive; I was sure then they would never have as a high a value again....Loaiza doesn't give me the same feeling--I believe he, like Sammy Sosa and Lois Gonzalez before him, has indeed turned it around and has been able to realize the talent he ALWAYS had. They didn;'t call him a "milion-dallar arm" for nothing, you know... While he will not sustain his ridiculous sub-2.00 ERA, I am confident that he can post 17-8, 3.60 ERA numbers in the future....Add to it the fact that Burly might be hurt and Colon will ask for a lot of money Sox will not pay, can you really afford to give him away?

 

 

Unless you can land somebody speacial in return, fogeboutit.

[Bmr31]

1.  Sox are most certainly not out of it.  If it were AL East/West we were talking about, maybe, but Minnesotta is simply not.that.good.    If our offense was performing anywhere near the level they did in 99-02, Sox win 2 out of 3 in Metrodome, 2 against D-Backs, sweep LA, sweep Detroit, take 2 out of 3 in Baltimore, 4 out of 6 against A's, sweep KC and split the series with Seattle. No excuse fdor Sox nt being 12 games over 500.  We can turn it around.

 

2.  Baseball is NOT stock market, and even in there buying high selling low only works out roughly 40% of the time.....What do you get for Loaza? Would A's part with Harden?  Would Angels give their hard-thrower?  Would Pirates give Giles?  Etc, etc, etc......I do NOT want Caruso-Vining-Howry type returns, and I am afraid that's exactly what Kenny would get.

 

3.  I was indeed saying "trade Eldred, Baldwin and Parque"  in July 2000 was because they were ll pitching over their heads and their ERA's were still relatively unimpressive;  I was sure then they would never have as a high a value again....Loaiza doensn't giv eme the same feeling--I believe he, like Sammy Sosa and Lois Gonzalez before him, has indeed turned it around and has been able to realize the talent he ALWAYS had.  They didn;'t call him a "milion-dallar arm" for nothing, you know... While he will not sustain his ridiculous sub-2.00 ERA, I am confident that he can post 17-8, 3.60 ERA numbers in the future....Add to it the fact that Burly might be hurt and Colon will ask for a lot of money Sox will not pay, can you really afford to give him away?

 

 

Unless you can land somebody speacial in return,  fogeboutit.

LOL, would you like to join one of my fantasy leagues? Id have you for breakfast lunch and dinner.

[1549]

Floyd is a righty, not a lefty and there is NO way Philly trades him. That would be like the Sox trading Honel (and Floyd is rated higher) or Borchard right after he came off his good year in Birmingham.

 

You don't trade the future.

 

hmm...I thought he was lefty, but you would know better. I didn't think Philly would trade him.

 

I would like to see Jimmy Rollins leading off for us, in front of Jimenez. It would make the top of our line up dangerous. But I wouldn't deal Loz to get him.

 

No way Philly would trade Rollins in the heat of the pennant race.

 

Personally, I am in favor of trading Buehrle, Colon, Loiaza, Magglio, and Lee. The guys we can get something for. I want a new clean slate

 

But I don't think that is wise, attendance would drop even further if there was another Reinsdorf rebuilding. If a new owner came in and rebuilt, I think that would go over much better.

[BrandoFan]

Personally, I am in favor of trading Buehrle, Colon, Loiaza, Magglio, and Lee. The guys we can get something for. I want a new clean slate

 

Don't be surprised if the "clean slate" lasted for a decade or so.

 

Not me- I am done with this team if they don't make playoffs and continue to expand the payroll. With 80+ WS-free years, with Cubs coming on strong and with AL Central being so weak....if Sox won't want to build a dynasty for the next 3-5 years, they never will.

 

I can tolerate losing, but not this pathetic circus. 1999 team was mediocre but fun; this one is insulting and full of heart-break.

[1549]

Don't be surprised if the "clean slate" lasted for a decade or so.

 

Not me- I am done with this team if they don't make playoffs and continue to expand the payroll. With 80+ WS-free years, with Cubs coming on strong and with AL Central being so weak....if Sox won't want to build a dynasty for the next 3-5 years, they never will.

 

I can tolerate losing, but not this pathetic circus. 1999 team was mediocre but fun; this one is insulting and full of heart-break.

 

The Sox are not building a dynasty right now, even if they started turning things around...the dynasty teams like the yankees of the last 7 years could piss on the Sox. The Sox hopefully have enough pieces for the playoffs, and now that looks near impossible.

 

If you are looking for a dynasty, you better find a new hat. Unfortunately, that is the fate we were given when we were born, or chose to be, Sox fans.

[BrandoFan]

Don't be surprised if the "clean slate" lasted for a decade or so.

 

Not me- I am done with this team if they don't make playoffs and continue to expand the payroll. With 80+ WS-free years, with Cubs coming on strong and with AL Central being so weak....if Sox won't want to build a dynasty for the next 3-5 years, they never will.

 

I can tolerate losing, but not this pathetic circus. 1999 team was mediocre but fun; this one is insulting and full of heart-break.

 

The Sox are not building a dynasty right now, even if they started turning things around...the dynasty teams like the yankees of the last 7 years could piss on the Sox. The Sox hopefully have enough pieces for the playoffs, and now that looks near impossible.

 

If you are looking for a dynasty, you better find a new hat. Unfortunately, that is the fate we were given when we were born, or chose to be, Sox fans.

1. The dynasty has been in the building stage since 1999. Considering how f***ing weak AL Central really is, the next 3-5 years present a truly unique oppotunity, a great window. Cleveland is in awful shape and Minnesota is so beatable it's not even funny. Just because Sox may not buy, er, I mean win 4 championships in 7 years like Yankees did, doesn't mean 4 trips to ALCL and posible one to WS in 5 years is out of the question. Pieces are there, payroll isn't. It's not like Sox lucked out with a trio of Zito-Mulder-Hudson/Prio-Wood-Zambrano caliber. Instead, we have depth but need to make ONE big mive/signing that will put us over the top. Giles might be that guy. Or Edmonds.

 

If Cubs win WS before us, it will be like losing an arm. Maybe not quite, but it won't be easily getover-able. Passion and heart. Look into it.

 

2. With your lowered expectations/inferiority complex, no wonder JR is getting away with raping this team. It's not about being a fairweather fan, either- it's all about rooting for the team that is alive , has good people running it and legitimately wants to f***ing WIN. If Sox miss the boat this year, JR will gut this team. I will be done as a die-hard Sox fan, but I will still follow them once in a while, just like I will cease caring about tennis when Agassi retires...No way will I be switching or changing hats, bro.

 

But life IS too short to give a damn about a franchise that doesn't give a damn about you. Consider it a devorce of sorts. Tough but necessary

[1549]

1. The dynasty has been in the building stage since 1999. Considering how f***ing weak AL Central really is, the next 3-5 years present a truly unique oppotunity, a great window. Cleveland is in awful shape and Minnesota is so beatable it's not even funny. Just because Sox may not buy, er, I mean win 4 championships in 7 years like Yankees did, doesn't mean 4 trips to ALCL and posible one to WS in 5 years is out of the question. Pieces are there, payroll isn't.

 

If Cubs win WS before us, it will be like losing an arm. Maybe not quite, but it won't be easily getover-able. Passion and heart. Look into it.

 

2. With your lowered expectations/inferiority complex, no wonder JR is getting away with raping this team. It's not about fairweather fan, either- it's all about rooting for the team that is alive , has good people running it and legitimatelt wants to f***ing WIN. If Sox miss the boat this year, JR will gut this team. I will be done as a die-hard Sox fan, but I will still follow them once in a while, just like I ill cease caring about tennis when Agassi retires...No way will I be switching or changing hats, bro.

 

But life IS too short to give a damn about a franchise that doesn't give a damn about you. Consider it a devorce of sorts. 

 

Ok for starters, a dynasty is winning the world series not the division (unless you refer to the braves 11 in a row).

 

Secondly, I say by next 2005 Cleveland has closed the gap and will be preparing to spend money again, so 4 years is probably stretching it. and to get to the ALCS 5 years in a row would require winning in the ALDS 5 years in a row. Considering the last playoff series this team won was in 1917...well lets not start talking 5 in a row.

 

Thirdly, I agree having the cubs win first would be aweful. Maybe even a death sentence for the Sox.

 

Fourthly, JR is not getting away with rape, if you haven't noticed fans hate him. His departure would probably bring back an estimated 5,000 fans per game (if the team wasn't terrible). '

 

Fifthly, yes I am pesimistic, but look at how this team is playing. I don't think I am alone when I say this is not a dynasty. So many holes, so many underachievers, and still not enough consistent pitching and still no defense up the middle.

 

Sixthly, I am glad to hear you aren't switching hats.

 

Seventhly, I could never give up on being a die hard fan, but if it comes to that for you...I wish you all the best in your sports 'split'. (hopefully things will get worked out though)

[BrandoFan]

Ok for starters, a dynasty is winning the world series not the division (unless you refer to the braves 11 in a row).

 

That's semantics. Considering how much success Sox had in the past, 5 pennants, 4 ALCS, 1 trip to WS would put us on the national map, would send the message to any owner thinking of buying us out that we are one of the premiere franchizes in a great city that is worth all the money and new stadiums in the world.....It would be a great start if anything else. Call it a baby dynasty if you want...hope it grows up to be a crazy-sexy, irresistable Dynasty thereafter. LOL

 

Secondly, I say by next 2005 Cleveland has closed the gap and will be preparing to spend money again, so 4 years is probably stretching it. and to get to the ALCS 5 years in a row would require winning in the ALDS 5 years in a row. Considering the last playoff series this team won was in 1917...well lets not start talking 5 in a row

.

 

Don't be fooled, Cleveland has NOTHING. Bradley is the only guy worth having. They are nowhere near the powerhouse (Ramirez, Thome, Gonzalez, Fryman, Alomar, Lofton, younger Vizquel, etc) they were few years back and even THEN we mustered enough to kick their ass one a regular basis....Sabathia is a horse, but he wouldn't crack our top 3. Nobody else. 2006 is the earliest and the Sox would still kick their ass if our payroll is abything close to 75 mill.

 

Thirdly, I agree having the cubs win first would be aweful. Maybe even a death sentence for the Sox.

 

I can't even whisper "Cubs" and "World Series Champions"....."Cleaning woman"????!!!!!! LOL

 

Fourthly, JR is not getting away with rape, if you haven't noticed fans hate him. His departure would probably bring back an estimated 5,000 fans per game (if the team wasn't terrible). '

 

The only bad part about being a Sox fan is being associated with other non-die-hard Sox fans. They are the worst and have played into JR's hands.. Say what you will about Bears/Bulls/Cubs fans, at least they pack the house and give their teams a chance.

 

Fifthly, yes I am pesimistic, but look at how this team is playing. I don't think I am alone when I say this is not a dynasty. So many holes, so many underachievers, and still not enough consistent pitching and still no defense up the middle.

 

It's do or die this season. The underachieving cycle (2001-2003 so far) must be broken sooner or later. As does JR's Evil Empire.

 

Sixthly, I am glad to hear you aren't switching hats.

 

What's next - are you gonna commend me for not switching my race or gender, too? LMAO!

 

Seventhly, I could never give up on being a die hard fan, but if it comes to that for you...I wish you all the best in your sports 'split'. (hopefully things will get worked out though)

 

 

Thanks for the kind words. I hope it never comes to that...but then again I was saying the same thing about tennis just a few years back. (:

[witesoxfan]

Brando....I agree whole-heartedly. This team should be winning right now. We're getting good pitching from our 1-3, we are getting solid pitching from our 4 and 5 guys in the rotation, our bullpen, aside from Gordon and Glover, has been solid over the past month or so(even White has been somewhat decent)....it is just the offense is so damn pathetic.....it's terrible. If it comes down to it, a retooling may be in order. I don't think we need that. What we need are 2 things....a very good lefty bat in the middle of the order, and a good lead off hitter.

 

I hate Kenny Lofton to death, but if he came up and the price were right, I would definately try to get him....though other teams do have an interest in him(I'd have to consider that one for a long time, and if he sucked, we'd look like douchebags). As far as a lefty power hitter goes, I'd look at Jeromy Burnitz in New York. He looks like he's starting to come to life, and he has some tremendous power. Also, Geoff Jenkins in Milwaukee has some decent power. Both strikeout a ton, but they bring some good power to the table. Brian Giles would be nice, as would Jim Edmonds....I'm not so sure they'd be available whether it be because their team is in contention(Cardinals) or because the price would simply be too damn high or the player doesn't want to come to Chicago(Pirates and Giles). If we could get Giles for Rauch, Garland, and Lee....I'd definately have to consider it(assuming Giles would waive his no-trade clause and assuming we could resign him). A package of Rauch, Garland, Lee, Harris, and Diaz for Giles and Lofton could possibly get it done.

 

I'd also look at Ponson in Baltimore....maybe get him to replace Garland if Stewart or Ginter couldn't get it done.

 

People must not realize how much time is actually left....if we want to win this year, I believe we could actually get it done. A move or two....and we are right back in it. Kind of like what Julio Cruz did for the Sox back in 83. That team was 38-35 at the break...and won 99 games.

 

It is possible.

[whitesox61382]

Brandofan, while I am with you on the idea of keeping most of the core together and adding some payroll, possibly trading for Beltran to give the Sox a true CF and hopefully push the Sox over the top you realize that you aren't being realistic. The chances are that the Sox have dug themselves to big of a hole to climb out of this year. If you think JR is going to add salary and keep players like Colon after a season in which the Sox underachieved and failed to make the playoffs(although I am not giving up on this season) than you don't understand baseball or JR. Its time to come back to reality.

 

I am a huge fan of Loaiza, but how many 31 year old pitchers with a career ERA of 4.88 all of a sudden turn it around? I do think Loaiza is taking a step forward and developing into a better pitcher, but he is nowhere near as good as he has been the 1st 2 months of this season. It is almost inevitable that he will fall off some as the season goes on. While this isn't the stock market the basic concept of buy low and sell high can most certainly be applied to baseball. Loaiza's value is as high as it is ever going to be. He leads the majors in ERA, has 8 wins on a team that is 6 games under .500, and is making only 500K this season. Contenders would be drolling to add this guy, especially with him making what he is. The Sox could probabaly land 2 very solid prospects for him, which is very good for a team that is inevitable going to rebuild. What happens if he reverts back to his old ways? He becomes untradable and the Sox probably won't resign him. Then what do the Sox have to show for Loaiza? Nothing. I say give this team about 2 more weeks and if they don't show improvement, than trade Loaiza and others to start the rebuilding process.