Steff Posted June 21, 2006 Share Posted June 21, 2006 QUOTE(whitesoxin @ Jun 21, 2006 -> 11:30 AM) If just curious, do you really think that it was not intentional? The Cardinals were down by 13 and had no chance of coming back. A professional pitcher doesn't let two fastballs sail right into a hitters back and shoulder back to back. Now I know you are friends with Ponson or something like that, but how was that not intentional? Before speaking to him, I looked at the game situation. Common sense told me it was not intentional from that. After speaking to him from his comments, the anger with himself, his ongoing arm issues, and his past record, I'm fine with taking his word for what took place. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whitesoxin' Posted June 21, 2006 Share Posted June 21, 2006 QUOTE(Flash Tizzle @ Jun 21, 2006 -> 07:53 AM) You can always make the argument in your favor. For example: when a batter is hit with a 0-2 count in a close game, you'll hear people say -- "Well, he had him 0-2. Why would he put runners on?" That's exactly the spot you wouldn't expect someone to be hit, thus, it's really the perfect situation. With bases loaded, 0 outs, and Cardinals already losing big, it's not entirely out of the question for Ponson to hit our players. What, a run scores and now instead of a 14 run lead it's a 15 run lead? No difference to anyone. His can always fling his arms up in the air and look surprised. I'm not falling for it. These are major league pitchers, responsible for throwing over 90 mph in targets 60 ft away. He hit Anderson in the back and missed his target by a good foot. It wasn't just a grazed inside fastball, or a breaking ball that slipped out of his hand. Hell of a coincidence to occur twice if it were unintentional. I completely agree with you. Not being on Soxtalk last night, I did not know anybody actually bought his acting job. It was the perfect spot to get in a few beanballs and act innocent. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guillen'sGuy Posted June 21, 2006 Share Posted June 21, 2006 QUOTE(Steff @ Jun 21, 2006 -> 12:34 PM) Before speaking to him, I looked at the game situation. Common sense told me it was not intentional from that. After speaking to him from his comments, the anger with himself, his ongoing arm issues, and his past record, I'm fine with taking his word for what took place. Are you a reporter Steff? I am semi-new to the site, so I'm not familiar with your credentials. I am not trying to be rude, just curious how you "talked" to Ponson after the game. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whitesoxin' Posted June 21, 2006 Share Posted June 21, 2006 QUOTE(Steff @ Jun 21, 2006 -> 11:34 AM) Before speaking to him, I looked at the game situation. Common sense told me it was not intentional from that. After speaking to him from his comments, the anger with himself, his ongoing arm issues, and his past record, I'm fine with taking his word for what took place. On December 25, 2004, Ponson was arrested in Aruba and charged with assaulting an Aruban judge following an incident about a complaint of Ponson's handling of his powerboat. In January 2005, he (Ponson) was charged with driving under the influence in Broward County, Florida. Early on the morning of August 25, 2005, Ponson was arrested for driving under the influence and driving while impaired on southbound Interstate 95 near downtown Baltimore, Maryland. He was stopped for following too closely and was subsequently arrested for the traffic violation, DUI, and DWI; he was later released. This was his second drunk-driving incident of 2005. On September 1, 2005, the Orioles released Ponson and voided his contract, saying that his infractions with the law went against a morals clause in Major League Baseball contracts. I usually don't trust a person's word with a history like this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steff Posted June 21, 2006 Share Posted June 21, 2006 QUOTE(whitesoxin @ Jun 21, 2006 -> 11:41 AM) I usually don't trust a person's word with a history like this. People who live in glass houses... For the second time... some don't believe him... I get it. Yaawwwwnnn.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whitesoxin' Posted June 21, 2006 Share Posted June 21, 2006 QUOTE(Steff @ Jun 21, 2006 -> 11:44 AM) People who live in glass houses... For the second time... some don't believe him... I get it. Yaawwwwnnn.... Just pointing it out because I felt it was an issue in discussing this topic. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steff Posted June 21, 2006 Share Posted June 21, 2006 QUOTE(whitesoxin @ Jun 21, 2006 -> 11:46 AM) Just pointing it out because I felt it was an issue in discussing this topic. What he does in his personal life is an issue to his intergrity on the job..? Give me a f***ing break. I'd love to see that logic used with folks like Payton, Jordan, Ripken, Jeter, etc, etc... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
innersanctum Posted June 21, 2006 Author Share Posted June 21, 2006 QUOTE(VAfan @ Jun 21, 2006 -> 11:01 AM) Is there really a formal rule about this? It all seem discretionary to me, on the part of the umps and on the part of the league office that doles out punishment. I totally agree that these things are not handled well. There's not an easy solution, but a one-free-plunk norm might at least reduce the unequal treatment the Sox have suffered lately. In that case, Padilla would have been summarily ejected after hitting AJ a second time. And the Sox would have had a free shot to retaliate as well. Similarly, Ponson would have been gone once he hit Ozuna, and Riske could have plunked Duncan without penalty. Now, I suppose there may be incidents where a good pitcher facing teams with guys who hang all over the plate might unintentionally ding two guys. So even under this norm, the ump should use discretion. How wild is the pitcher to other hitters? Was the batter leaning in? Did he just barely get nicked, or was he plunked in the back? And there may also be incidents where even one beaning warrants ejection, as when the Rocket quite plainly went headhunting against Mike Piazza. So umps, just do a better job. Toss the instigators, and allow teams to get their share of justice. Otherwise, the tension will just build into something worse. After Anderson was hit, I was thinking that Ozuna was standing unusually far away from the plate. He was still HBP. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heads22 Posted June 21, 2006 Share Posted June 21, 2006 What reason would Ponson have to lie to Steff? I've got friends with histories but that doesn't mean I can't take their word on stuff. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steff Posted June 21, 2006 Share Posted June 21, 2006 QUOTE(Heads22 @ Jun 21, 2006 -> 11:56 AM) What reason would Ponson have to lie to Steff? I've got friends with histories but that doesn't mean I can't take their word on stuff. None. Listen.. he's hit others. And he was proud as a peacock in saying when it was intentional. Sidney is a take no s*** guy. He doesn't care what's said or done as long as it's done his way. His career history, the rise and the future fall, has dictated that. What does this even matter? I've got no problem with anyone believing differently. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chisoxrd5 Posted June 21, 2006 Share Posted June 21, 2006 QUOTE(Heads22 @ Jun 21, 2006 -> 11:56 AM) What reason would Ponson have to lie to Steff? I've got friends with histories but that doesn't mean I can't take their word on stuff. Now I'm confused Regardless as to if it was intentional or not, I'm glad Riske retaliated. This is the second time in a week a pitcher has hit our batters in a shady fashion. Regardless of the truth, I'm just happy we got one back. Call me a jerk, call me what you will. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whitesoxin' Posted June 21, 2006 Share Posted June 21, 2006 QUOTE(Steff @ Jun 21, 2006 -> 11:50 AM) What he does in his personal life is an issue to his intergrity on the job..? Give me a f***ing break. I'd love to see that logic used with folks like Payton, Jordan, Ripken, Jeter, etc, etc... He is still the same person when he is on the field. I have the same integrity on the job as I do in my personal life, but maybe my situation is different. I would just find myself hardpressed to take somebody's word who was let go from his job because of violation of a moral code. Give me a f***ing break. "Payton, Jordan, Ripken, Jeter, ect... " none of these players were ever let go because of violating a moral code. That was my main point, and I just threw in several other arrests and miscounducts to show the "history" you mentioned which is not very good, at least from my perspective because I don't know him and only see the bad news that is portrayed in the media. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steff Posted June 21, 2006 Share Posted June 21, 2006 QUOTE(whitesoxin @ Jun 21, 2006 -> 12:04 PM) "Payton, Jordan, Ripken, Jeter, ect... " none of these players were ever let go because of violating a moral code. My point is do some research... you'll be shocked to see what many superstars have done and hasn't been reported. Much worse than DUI's (which is a stretch, IMO, for a "morals code violation"), yet it doesn't effect their performance on the field. If Sidney was drunk last night, you might have a case. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Controlled Chaos Posted June 21, 2006 Share Posted June 21, 2006 QUOTE(Chisoxrd5 @ Jun 21, 2006 -> 12:01 PM) Now I'm confused Regardless as to if it was intentional or not, I'm glad Riske retaliated. This is the second time in a week a pitcher has hit our batters in a shady fashion. Regardless of the truth, I'm just happy we got one back. Call me a jerk, call me what you will. I believe Steff. There's no reason to lie. I also have no problem with beaning one of their guys. I understand not everyone agrees with it, but it's my take if we get hit twice we should hit back...intentional or not. It was a good bean by Riske..right in the keyster!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whitesoxin' Posted June 21, 2006 Share Posted June 21, 2006 QUOTE(Steff @ Jun 21, 2006 -> 12:08 PM) My point is do some research... you'll be shocked to see what many superstars have done and hasn't been reported. Much worse than DUI's (which is a stretch, IMO, for a "morals code violation"), yet it doesn't effect their performance on the field. If Sidney was drunk last night, you might have a case. Agree to disagree. You know him personally and I don't. All I've been exposed to is negative images and stories in the media. Does it make either of us right? Nobody knows. My only last comment on this Sidney issue is that I disagree with your comment that a DUI is not a morals code violation, because it potentially harms everyone who are innocent on the road..and it was only after his second infraction in 2005 that the Orioles released him. They gave him two strikes. I'm just more pissed at the fact that our team is being drilled constantly and then we can't retaliate without facing ejection and suspension. I think Riske was initiated last night. Also, hitting Duncan's son sent a "Don't mess with us" message to the pitching coach. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CanOfCorn Posted June 21, 2006 Share Posted June 21, 2006 QUOTE(Chisoxrd5 @ Jun 21, 2006 -> 12:01 PM) Now I'm confused Regardless as to if it was intentional or not, I'm glad Riske retaliated. This is the second time in a week a pitcher has hit our batters in a shady fashion. Regardless of the truth, I'm just happy we got one back. Call me a jerk, call me what you will. This is exactly true. If it was just Anderson...fine...a pitch got away. And even if the pitch to Ozuna got away...and totally unintentional, that doesn't mean we shouldn't retaliate. You aren't a jerk, that's baseball. Players have been thrown at for a lot less. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SpringfieldFan Posted June 21, 2006 Share Posted June 21, 2006 Even if Ponson's pitches were completely unintentional, our guys in the line of fire there. When a couple of your guys get drilled with heat, its time to say "alright, enough" and a simple plunk in their guy's padding gets the message across efficiently - a lot more efficiently then the courtroom on the field we see now. SFF Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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