Official Ozzie/Mariotti Thread

[G&T]

Murph just brought up this topic on the Score...wonder where he got it from...

[CanOfCorn]

Okay. Fair enough.

 

C'mon, let's hug it out.

 

[YASNY]

You're oversimplifying but let's be honest here: we ALL thought they were gonna choke in September, and that was hardly Mariotti alone that was talking that up in the press.

 

And let's face it, up until 2005 there was no reason to think that the Sox would ever win with Reinsdorf as an owner. Not me, that's for sure.

 

Yes through the years he's of course flip/flopped on the story, just like... fans do.

 

Maybe that's what I like: he writes like a fan. Up and down, love 'em, hate 'em--more about emotion than about Sportscenter analysis.

 

I'll be the first to admit, for instance, that I had my eyes closed until the end of September because I was thinking the unthinkable. I just didn't have the venue to write about it. Actually, I did: and I got banned.

 

Now THAT I can somewhat understand. Though, I still believe Mariotti just looks to stir s*** to see if something stinks.

[ZoomSlowik]

You're oversimplifying but let's be honest here: we ALL thought they were gonna choke in September, and that was hardly Mariotti alone that was talking that up in the press.

 

And let's face it, up until 2005 there was no reason to think that the Sox would ever win with Reinsdorf as an owner. Not me, that's for sure.

 

Yes through the years he's of course flip/flopped on the story, just like... fans do.

 

Maybe that's what I like: he writes like a fan. Up and down, love 'em, hate 'em--more about emotion than about Sportscenter analysis.

 

I'll be the first to admit, for instance, that I had my eyes closed until the end of September because I was thinking the unthinkable. I just didn't have the venue to write about it. Actually, I did: and I got banned.

 

No, I'm not over-simplifying. Look at the damn blog that shows his articles. Even before they started to slide he was flip-flopping. None of his opinions are ever valid for more than two weeks, most even less.

 

And no, not all of us thought they were going to choke.

Edited June 22, 2006 by ZoomSlowik

[Kid Gleason]

Wow I just met the biggest sox fan!

As far as Mariotti goes, he is not a good writer, he steals and plagurizes most of his columns from other sources. He could be the biggest white sox homer in the world and it wouldn't change the fact he is a talentless hack.

BTW can I get your autograph or something I am still in awe that the biggest sox fan has quoted me

 

 

Awww hell man, this isn' Chip Z'Nuff...is it???

[The Critic]

I'm still waiting for Mariotti's sensitivity training and apology to Frank Thomas for inferring that he was a cross-dresser by calling him The Big Skirt.

[bmags]

i think sox fans are struggling with this situation...

 

on one hand, from our bowels we feel like ozzie is getting punished for criticizing an ESPN analyst. In reality, its cause he used the horrible epithet for homosexuals which is not acceptable in our society, nor should be in any society over the airwaves.

 

And also...we feel like this is teh time to show the country/town, what a complete ASS marriotti has been to this organization.

[YASNY]

I'm still waiting for Mariotti's sensitivity training and apology to Frank Thomas for inferring that he was a cross-dresser by calling him The Big Skirt.

 

[Kalapse]

ozzie is the man, and he will stay in chicago. If he leaves, the rest of the white sox fans will leave with him

No, that really would not be the case.

[bmags]

seriously...my loyalties lie with the colors...not the manager.

[zach61]

Those around in the mid to late 80's might recall the rise of Mike Ditka with the fans & press to and beyond the World Championship in Jan 1986. For a time, outrageous things he said were accepted, as he was the king in this town, but it eventually started wearing thin on the players, and eventually the press. He never backed off, and the team began to fail and eventually he lost his job as the press started criticizing his methods. I hope none of this happens to Ozzie.

 

From what I remember about Ditka, he brought the attention to the team. From what I'm seeing with Ozzie, he takes the attention off of the team. I like how the media is all caught up with Ozzie insulting a group of people when that same group of people aren't even allowed to get married, instead of Anderson hitting under .200, or Anderson being suspended, or Thome in a bit of a slump, or Pods in a pretty big slump and not making plays in the outfield. Or what about the bullpen? What about Sean Tracey? All of that pressure has been removed by Ozzie calling Moronotti the F** word. I believe that Ozzie is dumb like a fox.

[YASNY]

seriously...my loyalties lie with the colors...not the manager.

 

So ... you're a fan of the laundry.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

That's okay. So am I!

[Controlled Chaos]

You're oversimplifying but let's be honest here: we ALL thought they were gonna choke in September, and that was hardly Mariotti alone that was talking that up in the press.

 

And let's face it, up until 2005 there was no reason to think that the Sox would ever win with Reinsdorf as an owner. Not me, that's for sure.

 

Yes through the years he's of course flip/flopped on the story, just like... fans do.

 

Maybe that's what I like: he writes like a fan. Up and down, love 'em, hate 'em--more about emotion than about Sportscenter analysis.

 

I'll be the first to admit, for instance, that I had my eyes closed until the end of September because I was thinking the unthinkable. I just didn't have the venue to write about it. Actually, I did: and I got banned.

 

I can't speak for anyone else, but I did not think that.

[bmags]

what they do with those whites is amazing.

[gojimthome]

I don't imagine that there'd be any kind of player walkout, but I'd certainly not spend a single dollar on the Sox if Guillen were fired for something as minor as this.

 

The players get paid no matter who's managing them. It's their job. They'd all stay and toe the company line when asked.

[Kalapse]

I can't speak for anyone else, but I did not think that.

^^^

Talk about a crazy ass generalization right there.

[Chip Z]

Awww hell man, this isn' Chip Z'Nuff...is it???

 

In search of some rational thought

[LVSoxFan]

November 17 --(I am) launching a campaign demanding that (Sox chairman Jerry Reinsdorf) sell the team to a group with the financial means and commitment -- the Comcast Sports empire, perhaps -- to compete for championships in a big market. Otherwise, the Sox might tumble into total irrelevance while The Ballmall Formerly Known as Comiskey Park becomes a sausage factory. Reinsdorf... might as well wave another white flag before next season..... Think I'm underestimating the Sox' chances next year? ... Hell, the Sox might be a .500 club....If (Reinsdorf's) franchise isn't dying, it never has seemed more irrelevant in this town...(What Smart fans) want to know is how the Sox plan to win a World Series. Answer: They won't, as long as Reinsdorf and his people own the team. Please sell it.

 

This I take it is November 2004. Um, after that 2004 washout season, why is this such a radical sentiment? That's what I thought.

 

December 14 -- Oh, this makes loads of sense, building a slap-and-tickle team to play 81 games in the most power-friendly ballpark in the majors..... Ken Williams is trading mashers for midgets....Amazingly enough, a team that hit a major-league-best 242 homers in 2004 has lost four prime power hitters, including Jose Valentin. And the only attempt to fill the void was Williams' cheapskate signing of injury-hobbled Jermaine Dye, who will make $4 million next year ($10 million less than Ordonez made last season) and is a career .208 hitter with two out and runners in scoring position.....Don't be fooled by (Scott) Podsednik's 2003 National League Rookie of the Year award or his 70 stolen bases last year. This is a leadoff hitter who has trouble leading off, hitting only .244 last season with a lame .313 on-base percentage....When Juan Uribe is a team's third-best hitter, you again start hoping that Reinsdorf sells the franchise while wondering if the general manager has lost his lid.... As long as Jose Contreras is your No. 3 starter and Jon Garland is your No. 4, the Sox can't play OzzieBall.....They don't care about winning and only care about making money.

 

You got him here. Although, nobody thought this was going to work (I personally did think it would). Remember? As Pods says in the WS DVD, everybody had them picked to finish, what, fourth?

 

December 19 --If the Sox had given (former Cub Matt) Clement an extra $5 million and (pitcher Omar) Vizquel an extra year and $3 million, they would have a quality No. 3 starter behind Freddy Garcia and Mark Buehrle and a fielding wizard to anchor the infield. But because they bid low in both cases, they'll be a .500 team next year. Or worse.

 

Again, we all knew from the five hole in 2004 that we couldn't have another one. And at the time, when Clement was up for sale, we all wanted them to jump on it and they didn't. That's how some of us felt on that one--disapppointed, like they weren't serious because of the money.

 

Vizquel you got him on.

 

April 4 -- The Sox will win 84 games and miss the playoffs. In a season of questions about health, payrolls and elective styles of baseball, the only certainty is that both (Chicago) clubs will fall short of the St. Louis Cardinals and Minnesota Twins in their divisional races, extending the city's streak of collective seasons without a Series championship to 185. "I go into every season thinking we can win a championship," says Ken Williams, the loopy general manager of the Sox. "I think we have a chance to do great things." They tote the rhetoric. I bring the reality..... I do not believe in Jon Garland and his Cuban clone, Jose Contreras, who needs to make more pitches and tip fewer. .... With Johan Santana locked in (with the Twins) through 2008, the Sox may not win a division title for a while.

 

You got him here--it was premature to write off "the experiment" without letting it unfold first.

 

April 7 --(The Sox are) Winning Lucky. Groovy as Sox life seems right now, let me assure you that this is no formula for a division title. ...(Jerry Reinsdorf ) and (Ken) Williams have concocted this "new way" of baseball that actually is a euphemism for payroll-crunching.

 

You definitely got him here. Again, awfully premature for Mariotti to be making these proclamations.

 

April 18 -- I stand by my story that the Twins are better... .The Sox are a work in progress; the Twins are the polished product.... Are the Sox ready? I think not.

 

Yup, got him here too. Again: WAY too early to be saying this. In 2004, yes. In April of 2005, no.

 

April 23 --If someone in charge doesn't muzzle Ozzie Guillen with duct tape, inject him with a horse tranquilizer or simply order him to shut the [bleep] up -- his favorite expression, not mine -- the man is going to talk himself out of a job and shame the city and ballclub he represents. .... Guillen's penchant for bizarre, unnecessary controversy is rising at the same approximate rate. ....Guillen is only confirming what his critics said: He's too nuts, off the wall and out of control.

 

Yes and no. Ozzie's managing is beyond criticism. His mouth, more than a year later... isn't.

 

May 6 --The happy news is, this team is 21-7 despite its offensive problems, which suggests Ken Williams' daring transition to thinking-man's baseball -- Small Ball, Smart Ball, Snail Ball, Ozzie Ball, Anti-Magglio Ball, Ducksnort Ball -- is his most successful gamble yet in an otherwise lukewarm career as general manager. ....Maybe this is a magically conceived team with purring chemistry and the perfect attitude. ...there are legitimate reasons to think the Sox will contend deep into September.

 

So now he's coming around, as everybody started to take notice. I'm not seeing what the big offense is here, except that now he has to eat his words from April.

 

May 15 --(The Sox) have the sweetest rotation in the sport ....And while I'm not about to predict they'll be the first local team in 187 collective seasons to win a World Series, they are built to last deep into September.

 

Okay, so....?

 

May 19-- I've always asked the Sox to place their media-bashing energies into assembling a pennant contender. Now ... Ken Williams seems to have done that.

 

May 21 --It should surprise no one.. that the Sox would rise impressively.... the Sox seem poised for glory.

 

May 25 -- The Sox are the biggest overachievers in baseball.

 

So now the skeptic is on board. And the criticism is...? Hey, I thought he was a Sox-basher 24/7. What gives?

 

May 30--You can't chip and dink out runs for 162 games and expect your starting pitchers to bail out the cause every time. ...Excuse me, but are those the Minnesota Twins only 3 1/2 games back now? Pardon me, but have the Sox sunk to ninth in the American League in runs scored after managing 17 in their last seven games?

 

This is a wash. Yeah he was proven wrong but is it that off the wall to think what he just said?

 

 

June 7 -- I can safely say the Sox won't win a World Series as long as (Jerry Reinsdorf) owns them.

 

Um, he said this in JUNE? What was the context? Obviously this is a crow-eating statement.

 

June 14 --I could .... concur that the rotation is the best we've ever seen, point out that the White Sox are the 12th team since 1996 to take a winning percentage of .673 or better into June, further point out that 10 of the previous 11 made the playoffs... and then conclude, This is definitely is the year!" But that would be a lie. And I sure don't want to lie to anybody.... Will (Ken) Williams recognize his Joe Crede problem and pursue Shea Hillenbrand?....The Sox still don't have enough offense, and given the struggles of the Yankees and Red Sox, Williams should be driven to spend the necessary money and make the bold deals.

 

Again, he was ultimately proven wrong but I find it disingenuous for people here to think that they knew all along that this was gonna turn out like it did--now THAT is stretching.

 

June 21 -- I will state for the record today, on the bosom of Hawk Harrelson, that the Sox are crash-proof in this regular season. You may as well sit back and enjoy the next 31/2 months. They are not going to miss the playoffs. Hear me? The aren't choking. Got that?

 

Is this the Sox-bashing that everybody's talking about? Guess what: he wasn't saying this about the Cubs.

 

June 24 -- Guillen's feistiness has a magical effect on the Sox.

 

Why is this quote even here? For what purpose?

 

July 4-- Destiny is a dangerous word at midseason. It connotes a contentment that shouldn't exist with a team that, realistically, isn't quite as good as its record. No doubt the Sox are heading to the playoffs....The hot debate among Sox fans is whether Ken Williams, Executive of the Half-Year, should be a major, minor or non-player in the trading period. That's easy. When you haven't won the World Series since dinosaurs roamed the earth -- or, in Carl Everett's non-Jurassic world, since Adam and Eve hooked up -- you only can be a major player. This will shock and anger many Soxheads, but as a public service, I will submit that the Angels and Red Sox are slightly more equipped to win the American League pennant.

 

No baseball expert would dispute this statement at that point in time.

 

July 19 --- I'm not saying the Sox can't win the pennant. I'm just saying they have to load up on reinforcements when the American League competition includes Boston, New York, Anaheim and Minnesota...History looms. It matters not if the Sox are 62-29 on July 19 if they lose three of five to a wild-card team -- the Red Sox or Yankees, I presume -- in the divisional round of the AL playoffs.

 

July 30-- Williams insists the Sox don't need major roster surgery, but I couldn't disagree more.

 

July 31--All I know is this: If 3 p.m. rolls around and Ken Williams has not made a significant trade, perspective will succumb to the usual paranoia in Sox precincts everywhere. Because this franchise will have jeopardized its best World Series shot in years... As presently constituted, I doubt the Sox are as equipped to win the pennant as, say, the Disneyland Angels, who have won a recent World Series and have the American League's most complete team. Or the Red Sox, who finally won it all last year and are so big on midseason shakeups that they're shopping Manny Ramirez after successfully dumping Nomar Garciaparra last summer. ...Today is the day the season is won or lost on the South Side.

 

We ALL thought this at the time. Just because it turned out wrong means it was bad thinking? Huh?

 

August 15--- For all his talents as a skipper, Guillen is a loose-lipped disaster as a representative of his team, city and sport.

 

I wouldn't go so far as "disaster" but he's got you on this one.

 

August 17-- You might be under the influence of Hawk Harrelson, but for non-homers who analyze baseball at face value, the Sox are vulnerable because their attack lacks punch. ....Remember that sick feeling in Seattle (in the 2000 playoffs) after the sweep? To avoid it again, Williams has to find a big bat.

 

August 20 --Only a fool thinks a scratch-and-tickle offense doesn't need Ken Griffey Jr.... A theme is emerging, and it isn't pretty for the South Siders. Barring an unforeseen deal by general manager Ken Williams, who is too protective of team chemistry and not focused enough on reality, the Sox will enter the postseason with one of the tamer offensive lineups in recent memory -- which places incredible pressure on starting pitchers to throw great games... I subscribe to a growing theory that the club's playoff fate is most dependent on Garland.

 

Many of us felt this way at the time (about the big bat addition). Not seeing the foul here.

 

August 21-- When you see the Sox morph into a limp, feeble club that can't piece together a run, much less win a game -- I mean, is it wrong to mention early similarities to 1969? --....is it not fair to wonder if a vintage Chicago baseball gag is unfolding? Anywhere else, they'd call it a speed bump, a minor rut. In Chicago, it's reason for primal scream therapy. AHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!....Enough with the romantic concept of protecting four months of fine chemistry.

 

August 24 -- Tuesday night in Minnesota, the Sox lost their most agonizing game yet in what has been a maddening, unnerving skid in Choke City. ....This is supposed to be a season of history. Instead, the Sox are dipping into infamy. .... Serious baseball people have been waiting for them to fold all year, figuring they are playing over their heads because they haven't put together success against elite teams. At the moment, the Sox are making the doomsayers look smart.

 

September 1 --The final, final, final trading deadline passed late Wednesday night without activity, leaving the Sox with one of the flimsiest batting orders of any contender in years. (The Sox are) a downwardly spiraling imposter that has little chance to win a postseason series, unless ominous patterns unexpectedly turn bright in coming weeks...... Buehrle doesn't have his stuff. You don't know what you're getting from Garland. El Duque is fading. Dustin Hermanson still has an iffy back. The team looks tired. The defense has been woeful. The lineup has too many automatic outs. The Sox aren't playing well at home. Who is Geoff Blum, anyway?

 

September 18-- If there is any sense of mercy, the White Sox will be blacked out the rest of the season so a terminally cursed city needn't witness The Mother of All Collapses. .... I have been opining since the summer trade deadlines -- in this column, on national TV, on every media outlet not controlled by Soxaganda -- that the boys are vulnerable to a classic choke job because management didn't bring in reinforcements....(Ken) Williams was foolishly protective of clubhouse chemistry ....The Sox have been a house of cards all along ...It was unrealistic to think smart ball would hold up all season when the concept was so dependent on pitching. ... A recipe for October success, this is not. The next 14 days and nights will be hell for the Sox, their fans and a city sick of applying the Heimlich maneuver. Watch at your own risk.

 

September 20 --Other cities host the World Series. Chicago hosts Choke Job Theater....Part of our lot in life is that the local baseball teams are destined to tease, crash and burn.....The Sox are deluding themselves if they believe Bobby Jenks -- a 270-pound rookie reliever -- can stop a historic free-fall. Who do they think he is, Ricky [Wild Thing] Vaughn of "Major League" fame?.... The thing about chemistry is, sometimes the test tube explodes and leaves your dreams in pieces. .... Whether the Sox go on to finish the biggest regular-season fold in baseball history or somehow do a backdoor slider into the playoffs, it should be obvious now that the rampaging Indians are a much better team and are worthier of the American League Central title.

 

September 22 --The Wheeze Sox....(are) pressing and gagging, contrary to the protests of Ozzie Guillen and the pig-like wails of Hawk Harrelson, who should be put out of his misery.....Oh ye of too much faith. The Sox aren't good enough to think beyond the next game....So, this dark, doomsday drama inevitably careens toward a final three-game series in Cleveland ... Williams failed to make the club better at midseason and left the Sox vulnerable.... Yes, it was difficult to make deals this year. But the best organizations always get their man ... and the Sox only got Geoff Blum.

 

September 27 -- Do you honestly think this team can do the slightest damage in the playoffs, assuming the Sox don ' t squander what is now a two-game divisional lead and two-game lead for the wild card? ...Just why are the Sox playing for October when they clearly don ' t belong there?

 

Yes this is awfully doomsday, but again: this is what most people thought at the time. Where's the foul here? Except for the ill-timed remark about Jenks. You got him on that one. Even Ozzie said at this time that they were awful.

 

October 2-- I can't see the Sox beating the Angels (in the playoffs).

 

Nobody could. Oakland, Anaheim? We were dreading facing either.

 

October 3 -- What is impressive about the Sox is how unified they've remained through all the stress. Some teams would have divided and pointed fingers during a slide that saw a 15-game lead shrink to 11/2 games, but not once did we hear a peep of dissension.

 

And the issue here is... what?

 

October 4-- I've been trying to tell out-of-towners that Guillen has been a terrific manager.

 

October 5----Ozzie Ball isn't about an on-field approach as much as the unity he cultivates in the clubhouse. He has their backs, and they have his -- even when he's pulling a stunt.

 

He never said Ozzie was a bad manager. Now you're tripping yourself up.

 

October 6 ---I caution that the American League Division Series is not the World Series, euphoric as the feeling is right now.

 

And what's so out there about this quote?

 

October 11--one important Sox executive seems to have his head on straight at the right time. General manager Ken Williams has occasionally sparred with media and fans since inheriting the hot seat five years ago at age 36, but he has a mature perspective about the precious presen

 

I'll give you this, quite a reversal from being berated for not trading for Junior.

 

October 12-- When they should have swatted away the Los Angeles Angels and turned these world travelers into road worriers, they instead blew a wonderful opportunity and returned to that wheezing mode we saw last month.But letting the Angels wiggle off the hook isn't a proud moment -- and might be remembered as the night that sunk the Sox and continued the futile postseason history of a city.

 

Now THIS is typical Mariotti jumping-the-gun, cashing it all in way too early. Point goes to you.

 

October 13 -- Maybe, dare I say, the rewards are finally coming.

 

Why is this quote here?

 

October 16 -- You can feel the gathering eruption, a convergence of crashing and booming that comes when 45 years of frustration are trumped by rare autumn rewards. The White Sox, once a nondescript franchise of inferiority complexes and White Flag trades and fans who tackle umpires, are one victory from the World Series.... I never thought it would happen, and if you check your inner conscience, neither did you.

 

Uh, yeah: he's right on about this.

 

October 17-- The team that once fixed a World Series is now fixing to win one. Yes, the White Sox have proved me wrong. They've proved millions of others around the country wrong, too.....There's also no doubt they survived a lack of serious activity at the trade deadline, which could have been their undoing..... Williams received the most flak after huffing, puffing, dialing, roaming and ultimately missing on a couple of would-be deals, but no one was happier by the GM's whiff job than Guillen.

 

October 20 -- What they've accomplished so far is incredible stuff, having established a blueprint for how to overhaul a franchise culture in a single offseason and how to play the game in the post-steroids era. Williams gambled his professional reputation and pulled off a dramatic metamorphosis, making him Executive of the Year. Ozzie Guillen thumbed his nose at the world and became a players' leader for the new millennium, making him Manager of the Year. Reinsdorf proved a ballclub can reach the Series in a major market with a middle-market payroll.

 

October 21 -- They've won with the kind of smart, unselfish, high-character, pitching-and-defense charm that defies everything we've seen from baseball in recent seasons....The Sox are about pure baseball.

 

October 23 --Not only are the Sox in the World Series, they're up a game. No one, it's safe to say, has stopped believing.

 

October 26-- In the top of the 14th inning, well into the fifth hour, (Geoff Blum) lined a solo home run into the right-field seats at Minute Maid Park...Who was smiling more? Blum or Ken Williams, the general manager who traded for him, then had to defend it as his only move? All the while, the Sox are only one win away. Say it again: one win away.

 

October 27 --Wednesday night, the White Sox won the friggin' World Series....One of those fighting tears was Jerry Reinsdorf, who stood in the Sox clubhouse with his longtime friend and partner in crime, Bud Selig, and accepted the trophy. Have I sparred with Reinsdorf through the years? Yes. Was I happy the man finally won? Yes. ...Unlike the Cubs, the Sox didn't choke. They smoked, oozing of Ozzie and melding before our eyes in Williams' test tube.....What they did, thanks to the feisty leadership of Guillen and foresight of Williams, was write a new blueprint on how baseball might be played in the post-steroids era.

 

You know, I think all your quotes ending up making my point more than yours.

 

Especially those last few. Mariotti is a Sox-hater? Pfft.

 

Thanks though. I rest my case.

Edited June 22, 2006 by LVSoxFan

[Kalapse]

From what I remember about Ditka, he brought the attention to the team. From what I'm seeing with Ozzie, he takes the attention off of the team. I like how the media is all caught up with Ozzie insulting a group of people when that same group of people aren't even allowed to get married, instead of Anderson hitting under .200, or Anderson being suspended, or Thome in a bit of a slump, or Pods in a pretty big slump and not making plays in the outfield. Or what about the bullpen? What about Sean Tracey? All of that pressure has been removed by Ozzie calling Moronotti the F** word. I believe that Ozzie is dumb like a fox.

Wow, I think you're giving Ozzie WAY too much credit here, the team has won 6 straight, 8 out of 9, is 21 games over .500, 5.5 games up in the wild card, second best record in baseball and have scored 33 runs the past 2 days Vs the second best team in the NL. There isn't a whole hell of a lot of negative things for Ozzie to be covering for right now and if anyone is going to be b****ing about any of those things right now (with the exception of Pods maybe) then that's just incredibly petty and I doubt the players would even care.

 

I think he just called a guy a *** and a piece of s*** because he dislikes him, nothing more, nothing less.

[Controlled Chaos]

This I take it is November 2004. Um, after that 2004 washout season, why is this such a radical sentiment? That's what I thought.

You got him here. Although, nobody thought this was going to work (I personally did think it would). Remember? As Pods says in the WS DVD, everybody had them picked to finish, what, fourth?

Again, we all knew from the five hole in 2004 that we couldn't have another one. And at the time, when Clement was up for sale, we all wanted them to jump on it and they didn't. That's how some of us felt on that one--disapppointed, like they weren't serious because of the money.

 

Vizquel you got him on.

You got him here--it was premature to write off "the experiment" without letting it unfold first.

You definitely got him here. Again, awfully premature for Mariotti to be making these proclamations.

Yup, got him here too. Again: WAY too early to be saying this. In 2004, yes. In April of 2005, no.

Yes and no. Ozzie's managing is beyond criticism. His mouth, more than a year later... isn't.

So now he's coming around, as everybody started to take notice. I'm not seeing what the big offense is here, except that now he has to eat his words from April.

Okay, so....?

So now the skeptic is on board. And the criticism is...? Hey, I thought he was a Sox-basher 24/7. What gives?

This is a wash. Yeah he was proven wrong but is it that off the wall to think what he just said?

Um, he said this in JUNE? What was the context? Obviously this is a crow-eating statement.

Again, he was ultimately proven wrong but I find it disingenuous for people here to think that they knew all along that this was gonna turn out like it did--now THAT is stretching.

Is this the Sox-bashing that everybody's talking about? Guess what: he wasn't saying this about the Cubs.

Why is this quote even here? For what purpose?

No baseball expert would dispute this statement at that point in time.

We ALL thought this at the time. Just because it turned out wrong means it was bad thinking? Huh?

I wouldn't go so far as "disaster" but he's got you on this one.

Many of us felt this way at the time (about the big bat addition). Not seeing the foul here.

Yes this is awfully doomsday, but again: this is what most people thought at the time. Where's the foul here? Except for the ill-timed remark about Jenks. You got him on that one. Even Ozzie said at this time that they were awful.

Nobody could. Oakland, Anaheim? We were dreading facing either.

And the issue here is... what?

He never said Ozzie was a bad manager. Now you're tripping yourself up.

And what's so out there about this quote?

I'll give you this, quite a reversal from being berated for not trading for Junior.

Now THIS is typical Mariotti jumping-the-gun, cashing it all in way too early. Point goes to you.

Why is this quote here?

Uh, yeah: he's right on about this.

You know, I think all your quotes ending up making my point more than yours.

 

Especially those last few. Mariotti is a Sox-hater? Pfft.

 

Thanks though. I rest my case.

 

The blogs are to show him flip flopping. Not every post is negative, it justy shows how he rides the wave.

 

 

^^^

Talk about a crazy ass generalization right there.

[henry wiggins]

I don't imagine that there'd be any kind of player walkout, but I'd certainly not spend a single dollar on the Sox if Guillen were fired for something as minor as this.

 

 

Same here. I've had periods where I didn't buy tickets or Sox stuff because I had big out-trades with the management. I was turned off, as a lot of people were, by the strike in 1994; and I disagreed with other things that Reinsdorf has done. As a fan, I go back to the Alleyn days.

 

Right now I'm a season-ticket holder and I spend money freely at games, on concessions and Sox merchandise. I would stop all that if the club fired Ozzie over this.

 

IMO any firing talk is WAY premature, though; they're more likely, if they do anything (and they've said they won't), to order sensitivity training and announce that he has to watch his mouth. It would be economic suicide to fire this manager at this point in this season, and anybody who's watched Reinsdorf for more than a few months knows that the man is not about economic suicide moves.

 

Besides, Reinsdorf loathes Mariotti as much as Ozzie does and maybe more. :finger

[Hangar18]

You're oversimplifying but let's be honest here: we ALL thought they were gonna choke in September, and that was hardly Mariotti alone that was talking that up in the press.

 

And let's face it, up until 2005 there was no reason to think that the Sox would ever win with Reinsdorf as an owner. Not me, that's for sure.

 

I'll be the first to admit, for instance, that I had my eyes closed until the end of September because I was thinking the unthinkable. I just didn't have the venue to write about it. Actually, I did: and I got banned.

 

 

man, thats right, I forgot about that. People were deemed "less" a SOX fan for thinking we might not make the playoffs last year. Funny thing was, in the SOX WS Video (put out by MLB), there are numerous references to the slide the SOX had, and how they almost didnt make it, how the SOX players themselves thought UHOH, they reference fans being Worried Sick and even have a fan interviewed.

[heirdog]

I made a yahoo address ([email protected]) and sent it. You can support Jay's crusade to have every Chicago sports franchise leave the city, too: [email protected]

 

 

Chuckie Carr, is that you?

[LVSoxFan]

The blogs are to show him flip flopping. Not every post is negative, it justy shows how he rides the wave.

 

 

My point is that he pretty much was writing what most people were thinking along the season.

 

I will give you this, his "predictions" absolutely suck. Maybe if he stopped making them, he'd have more cred. Because that's where he gets himself in the most trouble as proven here.

 

Also, as I mentioned, his famous proclamation after the Bulls outlasted the Pacers that the Bulls were too "old and tired" to ever beat Utah. Oops!

 

Good dicussion though, gents (and ladies)! This was fun.

 

Now back to shelling the Cards...

 

[YASNY]

Same here. I've had periods where I didn't buy tickets or Sox stuff because I had big out-trades with the management. I was turned off, as a lot of people were, by the strike in 1994; and I disagreed with other things that Reinsdorf has done. As a fan, I go back to the Alleyn days.

 

Right now I'm a season-ticket holder and I spend money freely at games, on concessions and Sox merchandise. I would stop all that if the club fired Ozzie over this.

 

IMO any firing talk is WAY premature, though; they're more likely, if they do anything (and they've said they won't), to order sensitivity training and announce that he has to watch his mouth. It would be economic suicide to fire this manager at this point in this season, and anybody who's watched Reinsdorf for more than a few months knows that the man is not about economic suicide moves.

 

Besides, Reinsdorf loathes Mariotti as much as Ozzie does and maybe more. :finger

 

You're a season ticket holder? Can we talk?