Official Ozzie/Mariotti Thread

[LVSoxFan]

Way to put words in my mouth. :headshake

 

There's a difference between knowing what will happen and having some faith in your team. That's not Cub-like because in their case it's almost always un-justified. Over the course of the year the Sox earned my trust, and I'm not going to start flipping out because they're going through a rough patch. Other years I might gripe, but not the last two. You apparently decided to fear the worst. That's your perogative, but that's a crappy attitude to have toward your team when things are going well, and I couldn't do it. It makes watching the team more painful and trying then it has to be.

 

You had doubts, others didn't. I can live with that. But don't support this bloated gas-bag for pontificating about whatever he feels like saying on a given day.

 

You're in no position to question my attitude towards the Sox, pal. I had plenty of faith in the Sox or I wouldn't have been there as many times as I was last year, and the year before, and this year.

 

Nobody said we (ME AND MY FRIENDS) were "flipping out" when they would "go through a rough patch." You said that, as you built your straw man.

 

Like I said, if you are such a super-fan and weren't concerned at all during The Swoon, then I wonder how much of a fan you really are, because anybody with their heart in the Sox was hating that period.

 

Cubs-like faith and never questioning moves/management is why they are destined to lose forever. Sox fans, as we--yes WE--all know, will be the first to question, demand and speak out when they think management is not doing the right thing. My God, son--have you never been to a game? A good chunk of the conversation you'll overhear is fans giving their take on how this should be done, how that should be done... even when we're WINNING. That's what's great about Sox fans; none of this love-goggle, we-love-you-no-matter-what mindless dedication.

 

Make sense?

[whitesoxin']

Murph just brought up this topic on the Score...wonder where he got it from...

I heard this too and started laughing because I had read the topic on Soxtalk hours before the Score mentioned it. I really don't think it was just a coincidence.

[Steve9347]

I thought he wrote an exceptionally good article. Ozzie really needs to take a few weeks off of the inflamatory remarks... the country is starting to take a bit too much notice.

[HeGone33]

I completely agree. As far as Im concerned he is just like me and all my friends. We are all loud and can be outspoken at times. Especially when the drinks are flowin.

[Hangar18]

I like the Idea of drinking with Ozzie

[longshot7]

I have to disagree with nearly everyone - I don't think the media is blowing this out of proportion. What Ozzie said was wrong - even if it was meant to challenge the guy's manhood and not as a gay slur. No matter the context or connotation, it is a gay slur, just like the n-word is a racial slur and k*** is a jewish slur. What's sad is that homophobia and heterosexism is so ingrained in our culture that using the word "***" is a commonplace insult just like calling something "gay" is an insult. Most people that use those words don't mean them as gay slurs, but does that make them any less hurtful to gays, no. "Get that ***" is a common jeer hurled at the TV at our sports bar during football season, and when I point out that it's not cool, I'm the one who's in the wrong. The n-word is not acceptable by non-blacks, and the use of "***" by non-gays is not acceptable either. Another argument is that it's only words and they should only have power when used in specific connotations. I disagree with that. Words, and language in general, are symbols that have a geat deal of power, and need to be wielded responsibly.

 

Now that being said, I certainly don't think Ozzie should be fired. Whether or not he should be suspended, I will leave to Reinsdorf and Williams. I know Jerry & Kenny talked to him about the issues raised by his comments, and I truly think Ozzie will listen to them. It's certainly possible that Ozzie didn't know, like many others (and some of you), that what he said was wrong. Now he knows, and knowing is half the battle.

[hammerhead johnson]

I heard this too and started laughing because I had read the topic on Soxtalk hours before the Score mentioned it. I really don't think it was just a coincidence.

 

Yeah, they got it from soxtalk.

 

There are obvious similarities between Ozzie and Mike Ditka. You don't have to be a brain surgeon to put two and two together. Some random dude who brings up the topic on a message board is not innovating, by any means.

[ZoomSlowik]

You're in no position to question my attitude towards the Sox, pal. I had plenty of faith in the Sox or I wouldn't have been there as many times as I was last year, and the year before, and this year.

 

Nobody said we (ME AND MY FRIENDS) were "flipping out" when they would "go through a rough patch." You said that, as you built your straw man.

 

Like I said, if you are such a super-fan and weren't concerned at all during The Swoon, then I wonder how much of a fan you really are, because anybody with their heart in the Sox was hating that period.

 

Cubs-like faith and never questioning moves/management is why they are destined to lose forever. Sox fans, as we--yes WE--all know, will be the first to question, demand and speak out when they think management is not doing the right thing. My God, son--have you never been to a game? A good chunk of the conversation you'll overhear is fans giving their take on how this should be done, how that should be done... even when we're WINNING. That's what's great about Sox fans; none of this love-goggle, we-love-you-no-matter-what mindless dedication.

 

Make sense?

 

How exactly is that a straw man? You said yourself that you thought that they were going to blow the lead, and you managed to get suspended/banned for expressing it in the past. I'm not conjuring that out of thin air. Maybe my language is a little extreme (I took a page from your buddy Jay), but that is basically what you said.

 

I didn't say that I was happy about the Sox losing during that stretch, but I also wasn't assuming that they were going to blow the lead and go down in history with the 69 Cubs. I like to let things play out when we have a good team.

 

Since when have I "never questioned moves/management?" I've been vocal in the past. I tend to complain a lot less when our team is in first place though (or very close to it this year). There's a difference between expecting a 4th place team to suddenly make a 15-game charge up the standings and expecting a 1st place team to hold the lead. Like I said before, I think they earned a little good faith, instead an awful lot of people were pre-maturely leaving them for dead.

 

I'm sorry you feel that b****ing is part of being a Sox fan, although it's obvious from this board that some of you think this is the case. I've been guilty of it in the past, but not now when they are winning. It's not a requirement that you do it at all times. I didn't have a problem with it in the past when they were underacheiving, but it gets annoying when they've been playing as well as they have. Besides, the we-love-you-no-matter-what thing isn't and shouldn't be exclusive to Cubs' fans. God for bid we enjoy it when the team is doing well and have a little faith. They take it to the extreme, but griping about your team when they're in good shape isn't any better. Forgive me for trying to enjoy the team when they're doing well instead of worrying about what might happen.

Edited June 22, 2006 by ZoomSlowik

[GoRowand33]

I am now done with reading about ozzie and mariotti

 

this is too dumb of an argument, ozzie said the wrong thing, but mariotti still sucks blah blah blah

 

I'm just going to tune it all out and watch the games

[hammerhead johnson]

But what about those whose kids are 10, 11, 12, etc. -- old enough to listen to the post-game show? Would I want my son to be listening to what Ozzie Guillen is saying? No.

 

Those kids hear much worse than that on a daily basis, let me tell you. You're being hella HELLA naive if you think otherwise.

[LosMediasBlancas]

Oz will get canned when the team sux, not because of anything that comes out of his mouth.

[lukeman89]

Beware: RANT

one of the problems with society today is that words like f@g are percieved as vulgar. but lets be honest...who decides what is vulgar and what isnt? the problem isnt with what people say, its that everyone interprets it to be bad.

 

thats the problem with racism today too. the only fundamental difference between a black person and a white person and a hispanic person is the color of their skin (which is actually caused by varying amounts of melanin). in fact, genetically the different races are so similar that scientifically, they aren't distinguised as separate races. but nope, those damn liberals always have to complain when a black person doesnt get hired for a job over a white person. well guess what? those liberals are part of the problem. the only reason it is a problem is because people THINK race matters. they need to get their heads out of their asses and get with the program.

 

oh by the way..has anybody heard any gay people call in to the radio stations and say that they are offended? i haven't. but you certainly hear a lot from the media about how it SHOULD be offensive to gay people. as soon as we teach our kids that stuff like that isnt offensive, it wont be a problem any more. same thing with racism. stop recognizing that different races even exist, and it will go away.

 

Bush proposing for that amendment banning gay marraiges was inane. what message does it send to people in america? "wow, there must be something wrong with gay people if the leader of our country wants to ban them from getting married"

Edited June 22, 2006 by lukeman89

[S720]

After all of those negative articles that Moronotti has written about the White Sox, it's just unfathomable to me that there are still White Sox fans out there who are defending the jagbag. You guys the Jagbag apologists make me SICK!

 

Ozzie has the gut to say it like it is. AND I RESPECT THAT!

[zach61]

Wow, I think you're giving Ozzie WAY too much credit here, the team has won 6 straight, 8 out of 9, is 21 games over .500, 5.5 games up in the wild card, second best record in baseball and have scored 33 runs the past 2 days Vs the second best team in the NL. There isn't a whole hell of a lot of negative things for Ozzie to be covering for right now and if anyone is going to be b****ing about any of those things right now (with the exception of Pods maybe) then that's just incredibly petty and I doubt the players would even care.

 

I think he just called a guy a *** and a piece of s*** because he dislikes him, nothing more, nothing less.

 

This is one of the things I do agree with hangar though. Even though the Sox are doing well, the stuff that gets the most attention(usually) is the negative stuff. I don't agreee with the biased against the Sox to make them look bad, but the news that usually gets attention is the bad news, even if the team is doing well. I might be giving Ozzie too much credit, but I think by him being involved with Chicago for about 16 yrs during his MLB career, he knows that we usually prefer to dwell on the negative rather than the positive. Look at what you just said? And this board still has things about wanting to get rid of Anderson. Trade for another bullpen arm. Garland isn't living up to the expectations. So by Ozzie saying something stupid, the media ignores any of the bad things and writes about him instead. Anderson doesn't have to keep answering the question about hitting under .200. AJ doesn't have to keep getting asked about getting beaned or about being the most hated player. As petty as it might be, they don't have to keep getting asked about playing as well as they are and still can't catch the tigers. I would love to be in the Sox clubhouse and not have to deal with the media except to say "That's Ozzie and you'll have to ask him."

 

You let me down, superzach.

 

Some quotes from "In Life, First You Kick Ass".

 

And like I said, from what I remember. Yeah, the media had fun with Ditka, but he did a lot of crap that pissed off the players and they didn't have the same respect for him like the Sox seem to have for Ozzie. I'm not in either clubhouse or locker room, so I'm just giving my opinion on the things that I see. And I could be completely wrong about the players not respecting Ditka, but it did look to me like they didn't respect him the same way the Sox seem to respect Ozzie. And my opinion on why is that Ozzie looks like he will back his players, where Ditka seemed to throw them under the bus.

[Allsox]

LV, real quick question: Doesn't it bother you that Mariotti never stands by what he writes?

 

According to Jay, on a given day, a person (Ozzie) is all wrong, the next day the person is the best thing that ever happened. He NEVER EVER has a consistent opinion or a belief into what he writes. Also, it's not right for him to name call just every sports figure in this town without taking it as well. He is the sole reason I do not subscribe to the Sun-Times simply because I grew tired of his windsocking.

Edited June 22, 2006 by Allsox

[hammerhead johnson]

Beware: RANT

oh by the way..has anybody heard any gay people call in to the radio stations and say that they are offended? i haven't. but you certainly hear a lot from the media about how it SHOULD be offensive to gay people. as soon as we teach our kids that stuff like that isnt offensive, it wont be a problem any more. same thing with racism. stop recognizing that different races even exist, and it will go away.

 

Do you read the papers? Gay-rights activists are heated. The Gay Games spokesman, the executive director of Equality Illinois, and the entire Queer Eye production crew want the Sox organization to tell Guillen to stfu and maybe throw on some tight leather pants.

 

/I apologize in advance

[Controlled Chaos]

Real quick question: Doesn't it bother you that Mariotti never stands by what he writes?

 

According to Jay, on a given day, a person (Ozzie) is all wrong, the next day the person is the best thing that ever happened. He NEVER EVER has a consistent opinion or a belief into what he writes. Also, it's not right for him to name call just every sports figure in this town without taking it as well. He is the sole reason I do not subscribe to the Sun-Times simply because I grew tired of his windsocking.

 

The Sun Times is a good train paper...I'm kinda stuck....

[atfsteve]

mariotti is a giant tool.

 

we have good baseball in this town and this guy has to find a way to piss on it.

[Allsox]

The Sun Times is a good train paper...I'm kinda stuck....

 

I agree with ya about the train but I refuse to pay that idiot's salary. Daily Herald is what is on my front porch every morning.

[chisox2334]

It's time start up signs and everything for this.... Just like for scotty Pods making all star game.. time get rid of him

[southsideirish]

QUOTE(longshot7 @ Jun 22, 2006 -> 06:42 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I have to disagree with nearly everyone - I don't think the media is blowing this out of proportion. What Ozzie said was wrong - even if it was meant to challenge the guy's manhood and not as a gay slur. No matter the context or connotation, it is a gay slur, just like the n-word is a racial slur and k*** is a jewish slur. What's sad is that homophobia and heterosexism is so ingrained in our culture that using the word "***" is a commonplace insult just like calling something "gay" is an insult. Most people that use those words don't mean them as gay slurs, but does that make them any less hurtful to gays, no. "Get that ***" is a common jeer hurled at the TV at our sports bar during football season, and when I point out that it's not cool, I'm the one who's in the wrong. The n-word is not acceptable by non-blacks, and the use of "***" by non-gays is not acceptable either. Another argument is that it's only words and they should only have power when used in specific connotations. I disagree with that. Words, and language in general, are symbols that have a geat deal of power, and need to be wielded responsibly.

 

Now that being said, I certainly don't think Ozzie should be fired. Whether or not he should be suspended, I will leave to Reinsdorf and Williams. I know Jerry & Kenny talked to him about the issues raised by his comments, and I truly think Ozzie will listen to them. It's certainly possible that Ozzie didn't know, like many others (and some of you), that what he said was wrong. Now he knows, and knowing is half the battle.

 

 

Please stop comparing a sexual preference to a race/nationality. They are far far far from the same thing.

 

Do you know that idiot, moron, and imbecile are also offensive? Do you use those words? They have double meanings as well. They were once used as classes of mental retardation. You use the terms now, I am sure, as a why of calling someone stupid. However, you use this word to refer to a mentally challenged person and the person's family will be very offended. The words have double meanings. Many words do. *** refers to a cigarette, a drudge, a peon, a british student, and a sissy or girly man. Put what he said in context and you determine the meaning. It didn't sound like he was calling him a homosexual male. Just my opinion.

 

QUOTE(lukeman89 @ Jun 22, 2006 -> 07:04 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Beware: RANT

oh by the way..has anybody heard any gay people call in to the radio stations and say that they are offended? i haven't. but you certainly hear a lot from the media about how it SHOULD be offensive to gay people. as soon as we teach our kids that stuff like that isnt offensive, it wont be a problem any more. same thing with racism. stop recognizing that different races even exist, and it will go away.

This from Mariotti's article, but that's it.

 

Obviously, Guillen hasn't learned his lesson about using such ugly language. He hasn't because his boss, Sox chairman Jerry Reinsdorf, is an enabler who is letting Ozzie run amok, whether it's offending homosexual groups that want Guillen punished or saying someone should "shoot the [bleep]'' after Jason Grimsley served as a steroids informant in a federal investigation. Reinsdorf, as I pointed out last year, is co-chairman of Major League Baseball's Equal Opportunity Committee.

[LVSoxFan]

How exactly is that a straw man? You said yourself that you thought that they were going to blow the lead, and you managed to get suspended/banned for expressing it in the past. I'm not conjuring that out of thin air. Maybe my language is a little extreme (I took a page from your buddy Jay), but that is basically what you said.

 

I didn't say that I was happy about the Sox losing during that stretch, but I also wasn't assuming that they were going to blow the lead and go down in history with the 69 Cubs. I like to let things play out when we have a good team.

 

Since when have I "never questioned moves/management?" I've been vocal in the past. I tend to complain a lot less when our team is in first place though (or very close to it this year). There's a difference between expecting a 4th place team to suddenly make a 15-game charge up the standings and expecting a 1st place team to hold the lead. Like I said before, I think they earned a little good faith, instead an awful lot of people were pre-maturely leaving them for dead.

 

I'm sorry you feel that b****ing is part of being a Sox fan, although it's obvious from this board that some of you think this is the case. I've been guilty of it in the past, but not now when they are winning. It's not a requirement that you do it at all times. I didn't have a problem with it in the past when they were underacheiving, but it gets annoying when they've been playing as well as they have. Besides, the we-love-you-no-matter-what thing isn't and shouldn't be exclusive to Cubs' fans. God for bid we enjoy it when the team is doing well and have a little faith. They take it to the extreme, but griping about your team when they're in good shape isn't any better. Forgive me for trying to enjoy the team when they're doing well instead of worrying about what might happen.

 

You built your straw man when you said I was "flipping out" about the Swoon. Your words, not mine. Straw man. Then you said I said I thought they were GOING to blow the lead, which I also did not say. That's two straw men.

 

And for all your huffin' and puffin about what a great fan you are who never complains, you certainly haven't heard me complain about the Sox this year--what's to complain about? In fact, when they had their crappy start I was one of the many who told everybody to relax.

 

You're all over the place on this. Too bad nothing you wrote about me was true. Oh well. And you supposedly hate Mariotti for the same thing. Irony alert!

 

After all of those negative articles that Moronotti has written about the White Sox, it's just unfathomable to me that there are still White Sox fans out there who are defending the jagbag. You guys the Jagbag apologists make me SICK!

 

Ozzie has the gut to say it like it is. AND I RESPECT THAT!

 

And what's unfathomable to me is you apparently totally ignorant of all the great stuff he's written about the Sox. I'm not defending the "jagbag," I'm stating the facts.

 

And if you think you're being a superfan by standing by Ozzie saying things like "f****ing ***," then whatever dude.

[Allsox]

With all the free pub the Sun-Times got out of all this garbage, they'll prolly promote Couch and douchebag to co-sports editors :finger

[G&T]

Noble effort. However, the only effect this will have is too bring more publicity to him. We actually have to IGNORE him in order to make him go away. I doubt that will ever happen.

[hammerhead johnson]

And like I said, from what I remember. Yeah, the media had fun with Ditka, but he did a lot of crap that pissed off the players and they didn't have the same respect for him like the Sox seem to have for Ozzie. I'm not in either clubhouse or locker room, so I'm just giving my opinion on the things that I see. And I could be completely wrong about the players not respecting Ditka, but it did look to me like they didn't respect him the same way the Sox seem to respect Ozzie. And my opinion on why is that Ozzie looks like he will back his players, where Ditka seemed to throw them under the bus.

 

I encourage you to read more Ditka books. The players absolutely loved him. He praised hard-working individuals to no end. Walter Payton used to call him up frequently and do his best "Mexican Whore" imitation. Ditka thought there was some chick out there who was obsessed with him and wanted to f*** his brains out, but he later found out that it was just Walter Payton. That's just one of the many examples to be found in great books such as "In Life, First You Kick Ass" and "Da Coach".