Medical Marijuana

[LowerCaseRepublican]

Next week, Reps. Maurice Hinchey (D-NY) and Dana Rohrabacher (R-CA) will offer an amendment later this month to the Science, State, and Justice spending bill to forbid the U.S. Justice Department and the Drug Enforcement Administration (DEA) from spending any federal tax dollars to target and prosecute patients who possess or use medicinal cannabis in compliance with their state laws (currently 11 states)

 

This got 161 votes last year from Congress but needs more before it'll pass.

 

The Hinchey/Rohrabacher amendment would not change the status of medical marijuana under federal law. Rather, it will simply protect those medical marijuana patients who live in states that explicitly permit the use of medicinal cannabis when sanctioned by a physician.

 

The use of marijuana as medicine is a public health issue; it should not be part of the war on drugs. More than 80 state and national health care organizations, including the American Nurses Association, American Public Health Association and The New England Journal of Medicine, support immediate, legal patient access to medical cannabis.

[Balta1701]

(grabs bag of Doritos from yesterday...)

[samclemens]

just what does it take to get medical-grade herb prescribed to you? thats all i want to know.

[Gregory Pratt]

just what does it take to get medical-grade herb prescribed to you? thats all i want to know.

 

Doctor's prescription, I believe.

But it's different in each state, I think.

 

I think that what you're getting at is that some doctors may abuse this and prescribe pot to those who aren't sick enough to have it like all drugs are abused by prescription at some point or another, and I'm sure that'd be the case sometimes with this, but I don't think that should really factor into whether or not it should be legalized.

 

I trust our Doctors, for the most part. And I think the Feds should stay out of this matter.

[NUKE_CLEVELAND]

Doctor's prescription, I believe.

But it's different in each state, I think.

 

I think that what you're getting at is that some doctors may abuse this and prescribe pot to those who aren't sick enough to have it like all drugs are abused by prescription at some point or another, and I'm sure that'd be the case sometimes with this, but I don't think that should really factor into whether or not it should be legalized.

 

I trust our Doctors, for the most part. And I think the Feds should stay out of this matter.

 

 

I think the states should end their open defiance of federal law and prosecute people who break the f***ing law.

[Gregory Pratt]

I think the states should end their open defiance of federal law and prosecute people who break the f***ing law.

 

I've never cared very much about medical marijuana, and so I haven't followed any of this, really.

What, exactly, are you referencing?

[NUKE_CLEVELAND]

I've never cared very much about medical marijuana, and so I haven't followed any of this, really.

What, exactly, are you referencing?

 

 

Im too lazy to look for links but the jist of the story is there is a federal ban on pot use for medical use and some states are refusing to enforce it.

[Gregory Pratt]

Im too lazy to look for links but the jist of the story is there is a federal ban on pot use for medical use and some states are refusing to enforce it.

 

Ah, yes.

 

I can't say I explicitly disapprove of the states, but I don't explicitly approve, either.

I don't believe in states flouting the Federal Government, but I don't believe in the Feds. getting involved with state's rights issues or overstepping their boundaries or doing both by banning a sort of medicine.

[santo=dorf]

QUOTE(NUKE_CLEVELAND @ Jun 21, 2006 -> 10:29 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Im too lazy to look for links but the jist of the story is there is a federal ban on pot use for medical use and some states are refusing to enforce it.

...and yet there are still a handful of people in the US who get Medical Pot from......*drumroll* OUR OWN GOVERNMENT!!

 

Check it out. (click on the "WATCH VIDEO PREVIEW.")

[LowerCaseRepublican]

I think the states should end their open defiance of federal law and prosecute people who break the f***ing law.

YEAH! Let's send SWAT teams in to arrest AIDS, glaucoma and cancer patients who use medical marijuana to increase their desire to eat food and keep things down! (and lower the pressure on their eyes for glaucoma patients) They're some real hardcore criminals who need jail to teach them what medications to take! And with mandatory minimum sentences, they'll be either dead from the disease or in jail for a very long time. Since they can't be released early (thanks mandatory minimums for simple posession!), that means that actual, VIOLENT criminals get released (rapists, murderers, etc.) because there isn't enough room in the jails to house non-violent drug war victims and actual violent criminals.

 

Drug Enforcement Agency's Administrative Law Judge, Francis Young concluded: "In strict medical terms marijuana is far safer than many foods we commonly consume. For example, eating 10 raw potatoes can result in a toxic response. By comparison, it is physically impossible to eat enough marijuana to induce death. Marijuana in its natural form is one of the safest therapeutically active substances known to man. By any measure of rational analysis marijuana can be safely used within the supervised routine of medical care."

 

Some med marijuana facts: http://drugwarfacts.com/medicalm.htm

[Balta1701]

I think the states should end their open defiance of federal law and prosecute people who break the f***ing law.

Like, say, people who order illegal wiretaps?

[Gregory Pratt]

Like, say, people who order illegal wiretaps?

 

If the President orders it, it is not illegal.

Didn't you get the memo?

[RockRaines]

just what does it take to get medical-grade herb prescribed to you? thats all i want to know.

If you find out, PM me asap.

 

I think the states should end their open defiance of federal law and prosecute people who break the f***ing law.

Underrage drinking is alot worse of a crime than smoking pot IMO. Alot more deaths from booze.

[Soxbadger]

The only reason Marijuana ever became illegal was through the lies and deceit of a few people, mainly Hearst. He got rich selling fabricated stories, and along with some of his friends in the paper industry paid off the US govt to make marijuana illegal.

 

Dont people wonder why liquor and tobacco are legal, while marijuana is not?

 

The answer is because hemp is a renewable resource that can be turned into energy, paper, and many other useful products. Henry Ford was trying to create a car that ran entirely on hemp in the early 20th century. Its a pretty in depth subject, but basically a bunch of rich guys colluded to get it originally banned (or more specifically made it so that you needed a stamp to sell it, and then made it impossible to get the stamps, effectively illegalizing it).

 

If you are interested just put into google, Hearst illegal marijuana.

[LowerCaseRepublican]

Kinda surprised nobody mentioned that this is a bi-partisan effort (Hinchey being a Democrat and Rohrabacher being a Republican) as well.

 

Not only is compassionate medical marijuana laws a step in the right direction but some good bipartisanship as well.

 

And Soxbadger, you're dead on with your history of the de-legalization of marijuana. If you ever want some hilarity, read some of the famous statements made by Harry Anslinger (the guy who was the first unofficial "drug czar" during the McCarthy era) They're so insane that they're hysterically funny.

[NUKE_CLEVELAND]

YEAH! Let's send SWAT teams in to arrest AIDS, glaucoma and cancer patients who use medical marijuana to increase their desire to eat food and keep things down! (and lower the pressure on their eyes for glaucoma patients) They're some real hardcore criminals who need jail to teach them what medications to take! And with mandatory minimum sentences, they'll be either dead from the disease or in jail for a very long time. Since they can't be released early (thanks mandatory minimums for simple posession!), that means that actual, VIOLENT criminals get released (rapists, murderers, etc.) because there isn't enough room in the jails to house non-violent drug war victims and actual violent criminals.

 

Drug Enforcement Agency's Administrative Law Judge, Francis Young concluded: "In strict medical terms marijuana is far safer than many foods we commonly consume. For example, eating 10 raw potatoes can result in a toxic response. By comparison, it is physically impossible to eat enough marijuana to induce death. Marijuana in its natural form is one of the safest therapeutically active substances known to man. By any measure of rational analysis marijuana can be safely used within the supervised routine of medical care."

 

Some med marijuana facts: http://drugwarfacts.com/medicalm.htm

 

 

It wouldn't be an LCR post without the rantings of some leftist website being presented to us as "facts".

 

:rolly

[LowerCaseRepublican]

It wouldn't be an LCR post without the rantings of some leftist website being presented to us as "facts".

 

:rolly

Yeah with clear citations to reports from DEA Judges, the Institute of Medicine, etc. Who knew the DEA and the medical establishment were extreme leftists?

 

When you can't defeat the facts, just lambast the messenger. Sorry, Nuke. It isn't going to work this time.

[NUKE_CLEVELAND]

Yeah with clear citations to reports from DEA Judges, the Institute of Medicine, etc. Who knew the DEA and the medical establishment were extreme leftists?

 

When you can't defeat the facts, just lambast the messenger. Sorry, Nuke. It isn't going to work this time.

 

 

The fact is that Marijuana is illegal. PERIOD. None of this other horses*** matters. If you dont like it then change the laws........( good luck with that one ).

 

This was my favorite quote right here.

 

The DEA's Administrative Law Judge, Francis Young concluded: "In strict medical terms marijuana is far safer than many foods we commonly consume. For example, eating 10 raw potatoes can result in a toxic response. By comparison, it is physically impossible to eat enough marijuana to induce death. Marijuana in its natural form is one of the safest therapeutically active substances known to man. By any measure of rational analysis marijuana can be safely used within the supervised routine of medical care."

 

 

He compared pot use to eating 10 potatoes?! LMFAO!!! Who the hell is going to eat 10 raw potatoes at the same time?! I'd be full after eating 1 or 2. Do you pay any regard to how inane things are before you reference them to back up your point?

 

There are plenty of drugs on the market that are legal that people can use to alleviate their aches and pains. If they dont like it then tough s***.

Edited June 22, 2006 by NUKE_CLEVELAND

[santo=dorf]

QUOTE(Soxbadger @ Jun 22, 2006 -> 12:08 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Dont people wonder why liquor and tobacco are legal, while marijuana is not?

 

The answer is because hemp is a renewable resource that can be turned into energy, paper, and many other useful products. Henry Ford was trying to create a car that ran entirely on hemp in the early 20th century. Its a pretty in depth subject, but basically a bunch of rich guys colluded to get it originally banned (or more specifically made it so that you needed a stamp to sell it, and then made it impossible to get the stamps, effectively illegalizing it).

.

I think it's more because it's very easy to grow, then sell, and of course, Uncle Sam is not happy about missing out on those taxes.

 

Maybe Kipwellsfan can help me out, but Canada is really, really tough on people possessing plants.

[minors]

Now I am actually going to take the middle ground on this. I support its use in Terminal patients I seen it used on both of my Grandfathers when they had terminal cancer. I hated to see the pain they had without it. Now I don't believe someone could walk into a doctor's office and get a dose.

[LowerCaseRepublican]

A brief history of how marijuana was made illegal in 1937.

 

Nuke, marijuana was made illegal because of two reasons: racism and pressure from interest groups.

 

First -- marijuana had the stereotype of being used by Mexican laborers and jazz musicians (aka mostly minorities) The laws in individual states banning cannabis were clearly going after the Mexican population. When Montana outlawed marijuana in 1927, the Butte Montana Standard reported a legislator's comment: "When some beet field peon takes a few traces of this stuff... he thinks he has just been elected president of Mexico, so he starts out to execute all his political enemies." In Texas, a senator said on the floor of the Senate: "All Mexicans are crazy, and this stuff [marijuana] is what makes them crazy."

 

Again, racism was part of the charge against marijuana, as newspapers in 1934 editorialized: "Marihuana influences Negroes to look at white people in the eye, step on white men's shadows and look at a white woman twice."

 

I'd also throw in some choice statements from the head of the Federal Bureau of Narcotics in 1930 (Harry Anslinger) to further prove the racism point.

 

"There are 100,000 total marijuana smokers in the US, and most are Negroes, Hispanics, Filipinos, and entertainers. Their Satanic music, jazz, and swing, result from marijuana use. This marijuana causes white women to seek sexual relations with Negroes, entertainers, and any others."

 

"...the primary reason to outlaw marijuana is its effect on the degenerate races."

 

"Reefer makes darkies think they're as good as white men."

 

Now for the part about special interest groups. Hemp is a very viable plant and can be used for lots of things. For example -- paper. Hemp provides four times as much pulp with at lest four to seven times less pollution compared to the process for trees. Not to mention it is stronger and more flexible than tree paper and it doesn't damage the environment because hemp plants can be replenished without having to wait years and years for actual trees to grow.

 

(from The Emperor Has No Clothes)

In the mid-1930s, when the new mechanical hemp fiber stripping machines and machines to conserve hemp's high-cellulose pulp finally became state-of-the-art, available and affordable, the enormous timber acreage and businesses of the Hearst Paper Manufacturing Division, Kimberly Clark (USA), St. Regis - and virtually all other timber, paper and large newspaper holding companies - stood to lose billions of dollars and perhaps go bankrupt.

 

Coincidentally, in 1937, DuPont had just patented processes for making plastics from oil and coal, as well as a new sulfate/sulfite process for making paper from wood pulp. According to DuPont's own corporate records and historians, these processes accounted for over 80% of all the company's railroad carloadings over the next 60 years into the 1990s.

 

If hemp had not been made illegal, 80% of DuPont's business would never have materialized and the great majority of the pollution which has poisoned our Northwestern and Southeastern rivers would not have occurred.

 

In an open marketplace, hemp would have saved the majority of America's vital family farms and would probably have boosted their numbers, despite the Great Depression of the 1930s.

 

But competing against environmentally-sane hemp paper and natural plastic technology would have jeopardized the lucrative financial schemes of Hearst, DuPont and DuPont's chief financial backer, Andrew Mellon of the Mellon Bank of Pittsburgh.

 

Then you can add in the Hearst yellow journalism of "marijuana crazed Negroes" trying to rape white women and other bulls*** stories about people going nuts on pot and killing their whole families, etc. It was because Hearst wanted to sell papers and he was an active racist.

 

Hell, the American Medical Association in 1937 was against the banning of marijuana. From Congressional testimony by the AMA to Congress: "We cannot understand yet, Mr. Chairman," Woodward protested, "why this bill should have been prepared in secret for two years without any intimation, even to the profession, that it was being prepared." He and the AMA" were quickly denounced by Anslinger and the entire congressional committee, and curtly excused. The AMA knew marijuana was a benign substance that had been used for over 100 years in curing diseases and helping out the sick.

 

__

/ends the history lesson

 

So, Nuke. If you're for the free market then you should support this. If you're against government intrusion into peoples' lives and in the medical profession, you should support this.

[Soxbadger]

Lowercase,

 

Thats basically the history as I know it as well. A few very rich and powerful people got together to make a plant illegal. Unlike cocaine, poppy, or other plants that require synthetic processes, marijuana can be grown and basically smoked as is.

 

Santo,

 

In part that is one of the reasons for the continued illegality, but it is some what poor economic reasoning.

 

The basis of our economy is supply and demand. Right now the supply for marijuana is basically consistent, while the demand is always increasing. Unlike normal economic models, increasing supply does not work as well because marijuana is a black market substance. Therefore instead of increasing supply to meet demand, there is an increase in price. A marijuana plant which may cost less than $5 to grow, can reap thousands of dollars of marijuana.

 

The govt could make money, because right now the black market price is so high that if it was legitimized, supply would increase drastically destroying the black market. There would be no need to go to a dealer, when you could just go down to the store and buy a pack of joints. The govt could put excessive taxes on it, and it would never reach the prices of the current drug scene.

 

Also while marijuana is easy to grow, it is time consuming. The period from germination to blooming, is at minimum 2-3 months, and then there is the time required to let it dry, etc. So most people are not going to want to start growing their weed crop in May, only to get their first results in August.

 

Not to mention once it becomes legal, the supply will flood the market place, making it not worth most people's time to grow their own. Most people do not grow their own produce for the very same reason, the amount of time and effort that it takes to grow the product is not worth the money it costs to buy it. And we are not even getting into the more complicated aspects of growing, weeding out the males to prevent seeds, only harvesting females the plant with the stronger potency, breeding methods to create even more potent strains, and the list goes on.

 

You can buy a home beer brewer out of a magazine, but it does not make it worth while. If marijuana was ever legalized the govt would see a windfall profit. First, think of all the expenses that it will no longer have. It no longer will have to pay for marijuana felons in jail, wont have to pay extra police, dea to capture and track, less court time, etc. Then think of all the added revenue, the drug trade is a billion dollar a year industry, and right now the US govt sees $0. Should marijuana be legalized the revenue stream would be equal to or surpass that of tobacco and alcohol, and that is billions of tax dollars uncollected each year.

 

If Reagan had not beaten Carter, it is likely that marijuana would have been legalized. Nothing against Reagan as he was one of my favorite presidents, but the man had been fighting hippies since the 60's in Cali. It was pretty predictable that he would be the President to bring "Just say No" and bring the war on drugs back into the public.

[FlaSoxxJim]

Thanks for the history lesson, LCR, and especially for the new addition to me siggy.

[NUKE_CLEVELAND]

So, Nuke. If you're for the free market then you should support this. If you're against government intrusion into peoples' lives and in the medical profession, you should support this.

 

 

So now it's racists and corporate tyrants who are to blame for your inability to toke up huh?

 

 

Im against government intrusion into people's lives but not when that means allowing them to use illegal narcotics. By your twisted logic I could make the case that not allowing people to do coke, heroin, meth and crack is intruding on their lives also. Where does this nonsense end?

 

 

Like I said before. There's plenty of legal prescription drugs available for people to use. There is no need for us to legalize banned substances just so some jackass can get high.

 

Lowercase,

 

Thats basically the history as I know it as well. A few very rich and powerful people got together to make a plant illegal. Unlike cocaine, poppy, or other plants that require synthetic processes, marijuana can be grown and basically smoked as is.

 

Santo,

 

In part that is one of the reasons for the continued illegality, but it is some what poor economic reasoning.

 

The basis of our economy is supply and demand. Right now the supply for marijuana is basically consistent, while the demand is always increasing. Unlike normal economic models, increasing supply does not work as well because marijuana is a black market substance. Therefore instead of increasing supply to meet demand, there is an increase in price. A marijuana plant which may cost less than $5 to grow, can reap thousands of dollars of marijuana.

 

The govt could make money, because right now the black market price is so high that if it was legitimized, supply would increase drastically destroying the black market. There would be no need to go to a dealer, when you could just go down to the store and buy a pack of joints. The govt could put excessive taxes on it, and it would never reach the prices of the current drug scene.

 

Also while marijuana is easy to grow, it is time consuming. The period from germination to blooming, is at minimum 2-3 months, and then there is the time required to let it dry, etc. So most people are not going to want to start growing their weed crop in May, only to get their first results in August.

 

Not to mention once it becomes legal, the supply will flood the market place, making it not worth most people's time to grow their own. Most people do not grow their own produce for the very same reason, the amount of time and effort that it takes to grow the product is not worth the money it costs to buy it. And we are not even getting into the more complicated aspects of growing, weeding out the males to prevent seeds, only harvesting females the plant with the stronger potency, breeding methods to create even more potent strains, and the list goes on.

 

You can buy a home beer brewer out of a magazine, but it does not make it worth while. If marijuana was ever legalized the govt would see a windfall profit. First, think of all the expenses that it will no longer have. It no longer will have to pay for marijuana felons in jail, wont have to pay extra police, dea to capture and track, less court time, etc. Then think of all the added revenue, the drug trade is a billion dollar a year industry, and right now the US govt sees $0. Should marijuana be legalized the revenue stream would be equal to or surpass that of tobacco and alcohol, and that is billions of tax dollars uncollected each year.

 

If Reagan had not beaten Carter, it is likely that marijuana would have been legalized. Nothing against Reagan as he was one of my favorite presidents, but the man had been fighting hippies since the 60's in Cali. It was pretty predictable that he would be the President to bring "Just say No" and bring the war on drugs back into the public.

 

 

Same logic applies to you. You could make this exact same argument, only substitute meth, heroin or cocaine in there. Where does this slippery slope you want to put us all on end?

[FlaSoxxJim]

Where does this slippery slope you want to put us all on end?

 

There shouldn't even be a slippery slope in this discussion. It is put there through artifice. Legalization of recreational marijuana (or any other drug) is a matter unto itself. If a medical profession sees marajuana as the appropriate indicated treatment for a given condition, he should be allowed to prescribe that as a controlled therapeutent just like he would prescribe any other chemotherapeutic. The fact that recreational pot use exists has no more bearing on whether it is effective when taken as indicated for medicinal use than the fact that people recreationally abuse pain pills and other prescription drugs.