FBI brings the hammer down on terror cell in Miami.

[WCSox]

Of course you have leftists like LCR who assume that someone is harmless until he lights the fuse and the building comes crashing down.

 

Better to catch these lowlifes while they're still planning the operation than to wait until they're on the Dan Ryan in a van full of ammonium nitrate. The indictment shows that each is facing four counts of conspiracy. They're going away for a LONG time.

Edited June 23, 2006 by WCSox

[LowerCaseRepublican]

Better to catch these lowlifes while they're still planning the operation than to wait until they're on the Dan Ryan in a van full of ammonium nitrate. The indictment shows that each is facing four counts of conspiracy. They're going away for a LONG time.

Nuke, I'm just a fan of the American presumption of innocence before guilt being proven. Plus, when the government is 0 for 5,000 in actually convicting anybody -- I'm gonna hedge my bets here.

[NUKE_CLEVELAND]

Nuke, I'm just a fan of the American presumption of innocence before guilt being proven. Plus, when the government is 0 for 5,000 in actually convicting anybody -- I'm gonna hedge my bets here.

 

 

Richard Reid?

 

 

There goes your o-fer

 

 

And thats without any research at all.

 

 

[WCSox]

Nuke, I'm just a fan of the American presumption of innocence before guilt being proven.

 

I find it sad that people like you feel no sense of justice or optimism when terror suspects are caught red-handed by the FBI pledging allegiance to al Qaeda, declaring jihad on America, and requesting weapons and money to carry out attacks on major commerical and government centers in our country. :headshake

 

3. Gonzales said there never was an immediate threat to the alleged targets.

 

Last time I checked, conspiracy to levy war against the United States is a pretty serious crime. :rolly

 

They haven't had their day in court yet, but the evidence appears to be pretty damning.

Edited June 23, 2006 by WCSox

[NUKE_CLEVELAND]

I find it sad that people like you feel no sense of justice or optimism when terror suspects are caught red-handed by the FBI pledging allegiance to al Qaeda, declaring jihad on America, and requesting weapons and money to carry out attacks on major commerical and government centers in our country. :headshake

Last time I checked, conspiracy to levy war against the United States is a pretty serious crime. :rolly

 

 

Oh that's nothing. They're just oppressed Muslims looking to vent their anger at the evil, unjust, immoral, racist United States government.

 

 

Now conducting wiretaps on terrorists? THATS A CRIME!!!! STOP EVIL BUSH!!!!!

 

 

:rolly

Edited June 23, 2006 by NUKE_CLEVELAND

[WCSox]

Oh that's nothing. They're just oppressed Muslims looking to vent their anger at the evil, unjust, immoral, racist United States government.

Now conducting wiretaps on terrorists? THATS A CRIME!!!! STOP EVIL BUSH!!!!!

:rolly

 

Seriously, it's like some of the ACLU crowd doesn't want terrorists to be exposed and prosecuted. Because we're infringing on their Constitutional rights to declare jihad on America and to obtain weapons and money from al Qaeda operatives... or something. I just don't get it.

[Gregory Pratt]

Looks like it was some good ol fashioned HUMINT that helped collar these guys.

http://www.cnn.com/2006/US/06/23/miami.raids/index.html

 

Collar these guys? I'll drink to that, AND to Human Intelligence!

 

A certain someone thought I was being eye-rollinglly dumb in pointing out that there are plenty of ways to stop terrorists and that not all of them involve the Patriot Act or Wiretapping! How dare I say that pre-9/11 and post, we had plenty of techniques capable of stopping major attacks and that we still do, even outside of the Revolutionary and Unstoppably Crime Stopping PatAct and Wiretapz!!

 

Yep, 9/11 and Oklahoma City clearly show that we were doing just great without the Patriot Act and wire-tapping programs. :rolly

 

This plot and the Milennium plots and several plots of the 1990s clearly show that we CAN do just great without them!

 

Note that, as I've said, I'm a proponent of the Patriot Act, but I do think you were being a tad reactive in saying the above in response to this,

 

Yeah, I'll bite, if no one else will do anything but cheers it.

 

I'm willing to say that Foreign Intelligence, likely from the CIA or some other source, had more to do with this than Domestic Wiretapping for sure, and possibly than the Patriot Act.

Of course, I haven't got a single problem with the Patriot Act, but I don't like Domestic Wiretapping. My guess is so because we've caught plenty of terrorists before and broken up terrorist cells without the NSA Wiretapping Program, and without the Patriot Act. I'm sure we could very well do it again.

I'd bet that someone we have captured somewhere overseas has more to do with this than we do -- someone giving us a tip, perhaps, or someone we forced one out of.

 

I think it's petty to oversimplify this by saying, "LOL PATRIOT ACT I'LL DRINK TO THAT LOL!!"

 

You know what I'll drink to? The work of the FBI and the analysts at the CIA.

 

I boldened the part that I'd especially like to highlight. I wasn't completely right, and so I shouldn't get too happy, but I did say that a tip could be possible, and it was indeed human intelligence that got us our men. Like with the other plots we've broken up before. I wish I had said human intelligence rather than foreign, though.

[Rex Kickass]

Seriously, it's like some of the ACLU crowd doesn't want terrorists to be exposed and prosecuted. Because we're infringing on their Constitutional rights to declare jihad on America and to obtain weapons and money from al Qaeda operatives... or something. I just don't get it.

 

Terrorists like Rush Limbaugh?

 

The ACLU fights to protect the rights of Americans. You may think your rights are worthless, but plenty of us in this country disagree.

[NUKE_CLEVELAND]

Terrorists like Rush Limbaugh?

 

The ACLU fights to protect the rights of Americans. You may think your rights are worthless, but plenty of us in this country disagree.

 

 

People's rights are not worthless. People who abuse the legal system to try to free criminals, embolden child molestors, keep law enforcement away from terrorists and take away people's right to free expression of religon ARE.

[KipWellsFan]

CNN today:

 

"Security Watch"

"Are We Safe?"

"Terror Arrests"

 

helllllllllllllllllllpppppppp!

[kapkomet]

CNN today:

 

"Security Watch"

"Are We Safe?"

"Terror Arrests"

 

helllllllllllllllllllpppppppp!

Yea, our government is just one big f***ing propoganda machine. :rolly

[LowerCaseRepublican]

I find it sad that people like you feel no sense of justice or optimism when terror suspects are caught red-handed by the FBI pledging allegiance to al Qaeda, declaring jihad on America, and requesting weapons and money to carry out attacks on major commerical and government centers in our country. :headshake

Last time I checked, conspiracy to levy war against the United States is a pretty serious crime. :rolly

 

They haven't had their day in court yet, but the evidence appears to be pretty damning.

If they're found guilty, I'll cheer.

 

In the initial post-9/11 roundups, using the PATRIOT Act, they rounded up 5,000 people and convicted 1 (which was later overturned on appeal) So the number of terrorists caught with the PATRIOT Act remains at zero.

 

With the specter of preventative detentions of people without charges and the 0 fer put up with the PATRIOT Act, I'm skeptical until there's a conviction reached and have healthy reason to be. Not only that but it's the good old American tradition of innocence until guilt is proven in a court of law.

[NUKE_CLEVELAND]

If they're found guilty, I'll cheer.

 

In the initial post-9/11 roundups, using the PATRIOT Act, they rounded up 5,000 people and convicted 1 (which was later overturned on appeal) So the number of terrorists caught with the PATRIOT Act remains at zero.

 

With the specter of preventative detentions of people without charges and the 0 fer put up with the PATRIOT Act, I'm skeptical until there's a conviction reached and have healthy reason to be. Not only that but it's the good old American tradition of innocence until guilt is proven in a court of law.

 

 

Here you go again cherry picking and zeroing in on one detail and even then you leave out most of the facts. Most, if not all of those people, were detained as "material witnesses" which means they were not criminals per se but had knowlege of criminal activity and were taken in for questioning and later released.

 

 

Truth is that nobody, especially you, knows how many potential terrorist acts were thwarted using the Patriot Act, nor will we ever. The law is a useful tool for law enforcement to keep tabs on and track terrorist activity. This, for the slow among us, is to prevent attacks from ever getting out of the planning stage.

 

Once again, you think that nobody's guilty until they light the fuse and even then they are just oppressed Muslims expressing rage at evil, racist, oppressing America.

 

 

:rolly

[Rex Kickass]

People's rights are not worthless. People who abuse the legal system to try to free criminals, embolden child molestors, keep law enforcement away from terrorists and take away people's right to free expression of religon ARE.

 

Why do you want terrorists to enforce the laws?

[NUKE_CLEVELAND]

Why do you want terrorists to enforce the laws?

 

 

Uhh.....what the hell are you talking about?

[minors]

Once again, you think that nobody's guilty until they light the fuse and even then they are just oppressed Muslims expressing rage at evil, racist, oppressing America.

:rolly

 

 

Well to some libs they could light the fuse in broad daylight and still find ways to say there innocent and there rights were violated by the terrible government.

 

 

Why do you want terrorists to enforce the laws?

 

 

So when dissolve a terrorist cell, charge them with treason and convict them and put them away for life we are really allowing them to take over the country

 

People's rights are not worthless. People who abuse the legal system to try to free criminals, embolden child molestors, keep law enforcement away from terrorists and take away people's right to free expression of religon ARE.

 

 

Well you know these thugs are good people they had to be wrongly convicted by our rotten government.

[LowerCaseRepublican]

It's amazing -- when it was the possibility that Karl Rove was going to be indicted for the CIA leak, Nuke and the rest of the people here trashing moi were saying "INNOCENT UNTIL PROVEN TEH GUILTY!!!11!!1!"

 

But now, when it suits them politically, they turn the precedent on its head and become hypocrites.

[minors]

It's amazing -- when it was the possibility that Karl Rove was going to be indicted for the CIA leak, Nuke and the rest of the people here trashing moi were saying "INNOCENT UNTIL PROVEN TEH GUILTY!!!11!!1!"

 

But now, when it suits them politically, they turn the precedent on its head and become hypocrites.

 

 

He could be guilty but we will never know because there wasn't enough evidence to even get an indictment. I do have problem's with cases where a jury has convicted these thugs and gave them a sentence like death but some bleeding heart comes along and questions the system. They have no right to be getting involved the jury has rendered a verdict and punishment and that is that.

[LowerCaseRepublican]

He could be guilty but we will never know because there wasn't enough evidence to even get an indictment. I do have problem's with cases where a jury has convicted these thugs and gave them a sentence like death but some bleeding heart comes along and questions the system. They have no right to be getting involved the jury has rendered a verdict and punishment and that is that.

I'll bite about the capital punishment.

 

“Mere factual innocence is no reason not to carry out a death sentence properly reached” - Antonin Scalia

 

Is it just me or does that statement from Scalia sound completely insane?

 

I'm not saying that they're innocent in this particular case but there are a lot of problems with capital punishment (i.e. when they exonerated 13 people in IL alone) Plus, capital cases cost more than life imprisonment.

 

http://www.willsworld.com/~mvfhr/

[minors]

I'll bite about the capital punishment.

 

“Mere factual innocence is no reason not to carry out a death sentence properly reached” - Antonin Scalia

 

Is it just me or does that statement from Scalia sound completely insane?

 

I'm not saying that they're innocent in this particular case but there are a lot of problems with capital punishment (i.e. when they exonerated 13 people in IL alone) Plus, capital cases cost more than life imprisonment.

 

http://www.willsworld.com/~mvfhr/

 

First of all that quote is insane no doubt on that. But the cost thing could be taken many ways to keep someone LWOP here in TN is 50K+ a year so there is 2.5 Million for keeping them alive. I suggestion I like is cutting appeals to one at state and one at federal level with a time limit of 2 years this is fair to all parties involved that would cut costs big time.

[Rex Kickass]

Uhh.....what the hell are you talking about?

 

Sorry, I know what you meant, but after a few beers - it read the other way. Never mind.

[NUKE_CLEVELAND]

It's amazing -- when it was the possibility that Karl Rove was going to be indicted for the CIA leak, Nuke and the rest of the people here trashing moi were saying "INNOCENT UNTIL PROVEN TEH GUILTY!!!11!!1!"

 

But now, when it suits them politically, they turn the precedent on its head and become hypocrites.

 

 

Who said anything about them being guilty? Thats for a court to determine. Stop putting words in my mouth please.

[WCSox]

Terrorists like Rush Limbaugh?

 

The ACLU fights to protect the rights of Americans. You may think your rights are worthless, but plenty of us in this country disagree.

 

I'm glad that we have an ACLU, but it's very obvious that they're often more interested in pushing a far-left political agenda than protecting the rights of Americans.

 

If they're found guilty, I'll cheer.

 

In the initial post-9/11 roundups, using the PATRIOT Act, they rounded up 5,000 people and convicted 1 (which was later overturned on appeal) So the number of terrorists caught with the PATRIOT Act remains at zero.

 

With the specter of preventative detentions of people without charges and the 0 fer put up with the PATRIOT Act, I'm skeptical until there's a conviction reached and have healthy reason to be. Not only that but it's the good old American tradition of innocence until guilt is proven in a court of law.

 

Regardless of whether or not the Patriot act contributed to the arrests of these (alleged) scumbags in Florida, your initial post in this thread was incredibly dismissive...

 

So, the organization wasn't an immediate threat, didn't have the materials and didn't have weapons. WTF kind of terrorist group is that? I mean, talk about f***ing lazy in getting off the boards.

 

Unless the Feds completely fabricated the evidence against them or obtained all of it illegally, these lowlifes are going away for a long time. I thought that would make all Americans happy, but apparently some of us feel inclined to automatically belittle the efforts of the Attorney General's office simply because they don't agree with the Patriot Act. :headshake

[Rex Kickass]

CNN interviewed one of the seven indicted people's sister on Situation Room yesterday.

 

BLITZER: And joining us now is Marlene Phanor. She's the sister of Stanley Phanor. He's one the seven suspects arrested last night.

 

Marlene, what was the first thing that went through your mind when you heard this allegation that your brother is a terrorist?

 

MARLENE PHANOR, TERROR SUSPECT'S SISTER: It didn't panic me. It didn't scare me. It didn't really shake me up or nothing because I know it's false accusations. My brother -- hello?

 

BLITZER: Go ahead.

 

PHANOR: Yes, my brother is a humble man. I felt like my brother and the group, besides the leader -- I dis-include the leader.

 

BLITZER: Who's the leader? Who was the leader?

 

PHANOR: Narseale Batiste.

 

BLITZER: What do you know about him?

 

PHANOR: There's nothing I can really say about him. The only thing I can say about him, when he do come and pick up my brother to go work out, or go to the temple and study and do their meetings, he seems like a pretty nice gentleman.

 

I can't say nothing wrong about him, because I never been around him that much to know what type of person he was, but from the distance and from the time he came to the house and pick up my brother, he seems like a very nice man.

 

BLITZER: Is your brother a Muslim?

 

PHANOR: No, sir. He's not a Muslim. He's a Catholic.

 

BLITZER: Does he go to church?

 

PHANOR: Excuse me?

 

BLITZER: Does he go to church?

 

PHANOR: Yes, he goes to church. He's a Catholic. We're at the St. Mary's Catholic Church.

 

BLITZER: Is he ...

 

PHANOR: On 75th and 2nd Avenue.

 

BLITZER: Is he very political, your brother? Does he have strong political views?

 

PHANOR: No, I can't really say that.

 

BLITZER: How do you think he got caught up in this alleged conspiracy?

 

PHANOR: Well -- I don't know what was their plans, I don't know what their meetings used to be, but it never came about terrorists, it never came about bombing, it never came about anything in that such way.

 

All I know, my brother tried to help the community. The temple where they doing their meetings and everything at, that temple was for them to have all their meetings, and to get together and help the community.

 

BLITZER: Was that temple a Muslim temple?

 

PHANOR: I'm not sure, but I know my brother is a Catholic.

 

BLITZER: Why did -- does the government say he is also known as Brother Sunni?

 

PHANOR: Well, no all call themselves brothers. Why, I don't know, but the whole little group call themselves brother.

 

BLITZER: Did you ever hear your brother being called Sunni?

 

PHANOR: Yes, that's his nickname. It's not Sunni, it's sunny, like, is it a sunny day. Yes, that's his name.

 

BLITZER: So, confusion is that he was called Sunny, not Sunni, because Sunni, as you know, is one of the religious groups in Islam.

 

PHANOR: No, I didn't know that, but now that I know, no, it's not for that. That's his nickname, and it's spelled, S-U-N-N-Y, as a sunny day. That's his nickname every since birth. But all of them call themselves brother. I don't know -- it's Brother Nas, Brother Dee (ph). I guess each of them abbreviate their -- beginning of their first name for that, but -- my brother, no, my brother ...

 

BLITZER: Marlene, did your brother have a full-time job?

 

PHANOR: Yes, sir.

 

BLITZER: What did he do?

 

PHANOR: He's a construction worker and from work, when he come from work, he goes to the meetings.

 

BLITZER: At the meetings he does whatever they all -- all those guys do at the temple?

 

PHANOR: Yes, all the guys, they're all there. They all gather up, they do readings, they meditate, they exercise, you know, it's something -- it's something they all get together and, you know, do among themselves.

 

They humble themselves. They try to have peace within themselves. They try to help, you know, each other, and they try to make, you know, a better community for our community. BLITZER: Did your brother have any hatreds, did he hate any groups of people?

 

BLITZER: Not at all. My brother -- anybody who know my brother know my brother is a very sweet person. Always. Everybody loves my brother. Nobody have nothing to say wrong about my brother at all.

 

BLITZER: Is your brother married? Does he have children?

 

PHANOR: No, he's not married. But my five, he claims them as his.

 

BLITZER: So he helps you in raising your five children?

 

PHANOR: He helps me, he helps my five kids and also my mother. He's our supporter right now. He's the one that supports us.

 

BLITZER: So what do you think about this whole ordeal? Speak from your heart. Tell us how your family feels?

 

PHANOR: My family right now is hurting, because it's something unexpected, unbelievable, and not true. My brother is a strong-minded man. He's not a follower. If anything, he's a leader, but at this point, for this here, he's not a leader. He's under someone, which is Narseale Batiste. Narseale is over the whole group.

 

Narseale, to my understanding, from what I've been hearing and listening on the news, Narseale has been deceiving the group. Whatever he knows, whatever undercover that came to talk to him, and give him money and -- you know, there's a lot of stuff I just learned today that I never knew. And that type of money, if my brother had it, we would have had it, too.

 

My brother's from paycheck to paycheck. And whatever this group is doing is for helping the community, but what Brother Nas, which is Narseale Batiste is doing, he's deceiving them, and I feel like it's a conspiracy what he did towards the group. Whatever he had planned, whatever was in his mind, whatever him and the Feds elaborated to do or plan or whatever it is, the group has nothing to do with it.