Frank Thomas

[SI1020]

Frank has tried my patience many times over the years. People who have actually met him have told me that he can come across as a really nice guy, the kind that would put himself out for you if you needed it. Whatever he has done wrong, Frank has paid a much higher price in the court of public opinion than you know who on the north side. I do know that we never ever had a hitter like him in the history of the White Sox. Put a vintage Frank Thomas on some of those really good Sox teams in the go go era and the Sox rewrite baseball history. Put Frank in his prime on the 55, 64, and 67 teams and you definitely make the Sox pennant winners and not just near misses. As for now, I hope he continues doing what he's been doing. Lastly, I'm not trying to reignite the controversy, or diss anybody here, just giving my opinion.

[Guest Ncorgbl]

You must not read a lot, huh? 

 

The specific "whining" I was referring to, was when Manuel commented in general that maybe some of the hitters needed to make some adjustments.  Frank responded the next day about getting pitches too tough to hit and not getting many pitches to hit.  He said all pitchers did was throw him inside all the time.   He seemed to say that the pitchers needed to adjust, not him.

Oh, I read plenty. If I'm not mistaken that was when Thomas SAID they were pitching him inside and it was tough to hit, but he had to deal with it, then went on a tear. If that's 'whining' to you, fine, but it sounded like an adult that was frustrated to me, and one who was determined to beat it, and he did.

Everyone I know took it as whining.

 

And that is just one instance. Frank is a well-known whiner.

Frank is no whiner, nor is he anything else the media portrays him as. Those easily led may believe the KotexBoy/Marriotti's of the world, but anyone who knows Frank Thomas, and hears for themselves what he says, knows he's never 'whined'. I guess you don't know the guy, and accept what's been written rather than what you see for yourself, if you've ever made the effort.

[Guest Ncorgbl]

Frank Thomas has EVERY RIGHT to not come to the bench if he in unfairly benched like he was last year

 

That comment is as assinine as it gets.  Frank has NO right to do as he pleases.  He is an employee and a teammate.  Again, it is all about Frank.  f*** Frank and his attitude.  If he couldn't hit, he wouldn't even be worth talking about, and he barely is at that.

Have you ever met the man? Have you ever really listened t what he has said? Have you ever talked to his teammates, past and present, for their real feelings? Even Konerko said Thomas "carried the team on his back", and "we need him". Have you ever been in the clubhouse, or even near it? Thomas is no cancer, he's the cure and has been. But when he's been injured, people like you bail out on him.

 

Stay off the band wagon, Frank and his fans don't need two faced assholes to back him up only when he's hitting.

f*** you, frontrunner.

[SI1020]

Frank Thomas has EVERY RIGHT to not come to the bench if he in unfairly benched like he was last year

 

That comment is as assinine as it gets.  Frank has NO right to do as he pleases.  He is an employee and a teammate.  Again, it is all about Frank.  f*** Frank and his attitude.  If he couldn't hit, he wouldn't even be worth talking about, and he barely is at that.

Have you ever met the man? Have you ever really listened t what he has said? Have you ever talked to his teammates, past and present, for their real feelings? Even Konerko said Thomas "carried the team on his back", and "we need him". Have you ever been in the clubhouse, or even near it? Thomas is no cancer, he's the cure and has been. But when he's been injured, people like you bail out on him.

 

Stay off the band wagon, Frank and his fans don't need two faced assholes to back him up only when he's hitting.

f*** you, frontrunner.

Oh well, like I said this topic can get out of hand in a hurry.

[southsider2k5]

Frank Thomas has EVERY RIGHT to not come to the bench if he in unfairly benched like he was last year

 

That comment is as assinine as it gets.  Frank has NO right to do as he pleases.  He is an employee and a teammate.  Again, it is all about Frank.  f*** Frank and his attitude.  If he couldn't hit, he wouldn't even be worth talking about, and he barely is at that.

Have you ever met the man? Have you ever really listened t what he has said? Have you ever talked to his teammates, past and present, for their real feelings? Even Konerko said Thomas "carried the team on his back", and "we need him". Have you ever been in the clubhouse, or even near it? Thomas is no cancer, he's the cure and has been. But when he's been injured, people like you bail out on him.

 

Stay off the band wagon, Frank and his fans don't need two faced assholes to back him up only when he's hitting.

f*** you, frontrunner.

Way to make an arguement. If you can't beat em, use 4 letter words.

[Guest Ncorgbl]

Frank Thomas has EVERY RIGHT to not come to the bench if he in unfairly benched like he was last year

 

That comment is as assinine as it gets.  Frank has NO right to do as he pleases.  He is an employee and a teammate.  Again, it is all about Frank.  f*** Frank and his attitude.  If he couldn't hit, he wouldn't even be worth talking about, and he barely is at that.

Have you ever met the man? Have you ever really listened t what he has said? Have you ever talked to his teammates, past and present, for their real feelings? Even Konerko said Thomas "carried the team on his back", and "we need him". Have you ever been in the clubhouse, or even near it? Thomas is no cancer, he's the cure and has been. But when he's been injured, people like you bail out on him.

 

Stay off the band wagon, Frank and his fans don't need two faced assholes to back him up only when he's hitting.

f*** you, frontrunner.

Way to make an arguement. If you can't beat em, use 4 letter words.

And I thought you read it all and were going to say 'if you can't beat him, which I did, JOIN him, which I did too!

[southsider2k5]

I did read the whole thing... and the comment was meant for the whole thing.

[Guest Ncorgbl]

I did read the whole thing...  and the comment was meant for the whole thing.

You wrote to me

"Way to make an arguement. If you can't beat em, use 4 letter words."

You didn't say anything about the one who wrote 'f*** Frank', which is the basis of my reply.

Did I misunderstand you?

[JTC2784]

To back up all the people that say not to blelieve the media's image of Thomas, I fully agree... who the hell would ever agree with the same people that portray Scammin' Sammy as a saint?

[southsider2k5]

You wrote to me

"Way to make an arguement. If you can't beat em, use 4 letter words."

You didn't say anything about the one who wrote 'f*** Frank', which is the basis of my reply.

Did I misunderstand you?

It was for the whole thing. That is why the reply was to the whole thread and not just a quote of the one comment.

[Rex Hudler]

You must not read a lot, huh? 

 

The specific "whining" I was referring to, was when Manuel commented in general that maybe some of the hitters needed to make some adjustments.  Frank responded the next day about getting pitches too tough to hit and not getting many pitches to hit.  He said all pitchers did was throw him inside all the time.   He seemed to say that the pitchers needed to adjust, not him.

Oh, I read plenty. If I'm not mistaken that was when Thomas SAID they were pitching him inside and it was tough to hit, but he had to deal with it, then went on a tear. If that's 'whining' to you, fine, but it sounded like an adult that was frustrated to me, and one who was determined to beat it, and he did.

Everyone I know took it as whining.

 

And that is just one instance. Frank is a well-known whiner.

Frank is no whiner, nor is he anything else the media portrays him as. Those easily led may believe the KotexBoy/Marriotti's of the world, but anyone who knows Frank Thomas, and hears for themselves what he says, knows he's never 'whined'. I guess you don't know the guy, and accept what's been written rather than what you see for yourself, if you've ever made the effort.

Have I met Frank Thomas? Yep and he comes across as a very amiable person. Does Frank sign autographs and do right by his fans? From what I have seen and every indication I have ever been given, he goes above and beyond. My criticism of Frank is not about that.

 

Have I ever really listened to what he said? Yep and without silver and black colored glasses on too. Step out of your silver and black PJ's and listen objectively. The ONLY people who defend him are die-hard White Sox fans (nothing wrong with being die-hard, but let's not lose objectivity), not baseball people, not former teammates (yes, I know EVERY former teammate is disgruntled and has it out for Frank and the Sox), not baseball fans who do not bleed silver and black.

 

Have I ever talked to his teammates past and present , for their real feelings? Yep, which is what I base most of my opinion on. Frank is the kind of teammate you put up with. When he is going well, he is happy. When he is not, he is miserable and it affects others. Frank is all about his numbers. (note disclaimer at the end) Frank takes some teammates out and pays for everything, in effect buying their loyalty (not saying that is his intention, but it is the result). In a team concept on the field, Frank is not considered a great "teammate". He is (or at least was) considered a great hitter.

 

Have I ever been in the clubhouse? No, I have never been in the Sox clubhouse. But hanging out in the clubhouse as an outsider for a day wouldn't tell the story anyway.

 

I am done with this argument. If you are blinded to what everyone else sees, then fine. That is your right. But if you actually opened your eyes and mind, you might see a whole other world. Blind love and admiration can lead to a very narrow view.

 

Lastly, my purpose for this thread was never to bash Frank. I am not a band wagon fan, because I have said for 3 years the Sox should get rid of him and would be better off.

 

However, I am more than willing to give a guy credit when it is due. Other than the dumbass comments he made in ST (which I believe were not meant to be whiny, just came across as such) and the comment I originally referred to in this post, Frank has seemed like a different person this year. He has seemed more team oriented and more relaxed. So either he has made adjustments or has gotten smart about what he says. Maybe it is a combination of both? Either way, I will give him credit in that department.

 

If you want to agree to disagree fine, I can do that. If you want to call me names, go for it, I can take it. But if you want to be objecitve and discuss a topic in an objective manner, I'll be here.

[JTC2784]

Frank is the kind of teammate you put up with.

As Herb Brooks said, "to win, you don't have to like every one of your teammates, but you have to be able to stand each other." In other words, Frank's bound to be bashed when the team's going bad, and those naysayers are going to start to shut up and start talking about his on-field contributions when the team's winning and he's producing. That's the way I've come to accept it.

[Rex Hudler]

Oh Boy!! I really like you Rex, you're one of many many reasons I basically stick to this board and have left the others. Just warning you though in cyber friendship. This topic has literally gone nuclear on other boards with pro Frank and anti Frank people going at each other.

Thanks for the compliment, SI. I am glad you stick around here and if I have anything to do with it, that is very humbling.

 

I am not a life-long Sox fan, nor do I know everything about the Sox. I do not profess to know what it is like to grow up in Chicago and be a Sox fan and have to hate the Cubs.

 

But I do know baseball and consider myself very objective when it comes to the game. I have been fortunate to meet, know and be around a lot of people who know the game and have had many discussions that have blown me away in terms of how much there still is to learn.

 

I have followed the Sox for almost 10 years now and feel I have a decent understanding of the organization. So, I state my opinions, which aren't always popular. But then again, if everybody always agreed, how boring would these boards be?

[JTC2784]

I have followed the Sox for almost 10 years now and feel I have a decent understanding of the organization.  So, I state my opinions, which aren't always popular.  But then again, if everybody always agreed, how boring would these boards be?

We'd all then be Cub fans....

[Guest Ncorgbl]

Rex,

I've been a Sox fan all my life, attended the first game of the 1959 World Series, became an investor/stockholder with Bill Veeck, and have had season tickets since then, and skybox through my company before I sold it, and still have full access to it. I have been to and talked to all that I asked if you had. I have personal friendships with Frank Thomas and Jerry Reinsdorf, and know the rest either very well or at minimum on a first name basis.

I do not view the Sox through anything but objective glasses. They would tell you that, I speak my mind, particularly to each of them.

That said, I believe your assesment of Thomas is mistaken, based on reports by the media, and not based on anythng true or fair.

If you, or anyone, wishes to post things that are untrue, fabrications or flat out lies, I will respond in the harshest of terms. If you, or anyone, wishes to post 'f***' ANY of my friends, I will defend them to ALL ends. (including my board friends who post here) I served our country 32 years ago in the Special Forces and fight all fights the same way. Totally. Those who know me from the MLB board know I do not quit, I do not go away, I do not lie, and I do not lose.

[Rex Hudler]

Rex,

I've been a Sox fan all my life, attended the first game of the 1959 World Series, became an investor/stockholder with Bill Veeck, and have had season tickets since then, and  skybox through my company before I sold it, and still have full access to it. I have been to and talked to all that I asked if you had. I have personal friendships with Frank Thomas and Jerry Reinsdorf, and know the rest either very well or at minimum on a first name basis.

I do not view the Sox through anything but objective glasses. They would tell you that, I speak my mind, particularly to each of them.

That said, I believe your assesment of Thomas is mistaken, based on reports by the media, and not based on anythng true or fair.

If you, or anyone, wishes to post things that are untrue, fabrications or flat out lies, I will respond in the harshest of terms. If you, or anyone, wishes to post 'f***' ANY of my friends, I will defend them to ALL ends. (including my board friends who post here) I served our country 32 years ago in the Special Forces and fight all fights the same way. Totally. Those who know me from the MLB board know I do not quit, I do not go away, I do not lie, and I do not lose.

So noted. We'll agree to disagree then.

[elrockinMT]

You must not read a lot, huh? 

 

The specific "whining" I was referring to, was when Manuel commented in general that maybe some of the hitters needed to make some adjustments.  Frank responded the next day about getting pitches too tough to hit and not getting many pitches to hit.  He said all pitchers did was throw him inside all the time. He seemed to say that the pitchers needed to adjust, not him.

Oh, I read plenty. If I'm not mistaken that was when Thomas SAID they were pitching him inside and it was tough to hit, but he had to deal with it, then went on a tear. If that's 'whining' to you, fine, but it sounded like an adult that was frustrated to me, and one who was determined to beat it, and he did.

I'd have to agree. Frustrated, but not whining. I think when someone's been with the team 13 years they have a right to speak up and out. I also don't think he is complaining about playing 1st base. He knows he is not the greatest defensive player and that Konerko is more comfortable there, but he'll do whatever it takes to help win games. We need the Big Hurt, who is one of the few players I know who can truly carry a team with his offense.

[clujer420]

I had seats right behind home plate for the Dodger series, and Frank was back in the box, but he was actually pretty much right on home plate. A friend of mine commented that he always thought Frank stood further away from the plate, and he was right. Whatever he's doing is working, though, as he's just killing the ball lately. I'd say he CRUSHED 5 or 6 balls in the series -- prior to now, it would take him a week to hit that many balls hard.

[Guest Ncorgbl]

I'd have to agree. Frustrated, but not whining. I think when someone's been with the team 13 years they have a right to speak up and out. I also don't think he is complaining about playing 1st base. He knows he is not the greatest defensive player and that Konerko is more comfortable there, but he'll do whatever it takes to help win games. We need the Big Hurt, who is one of the few players I know who can truly carry a team with his offense.

The writer for the Sun-Times started the 'impression' that Thomas was somewhat reluctant to stay in the field in last week's newspaper. He based it on Thomas' quote of "we'll see", when asked if he was going to be permanently taking 1st base. It's good example of the twisting the media does either purposely, or not. Thomas tries to downplay his playing first, knowing Konerko could start hitting again and would probably go back to the field as well, but it's given it's little 'twist' to make Frank look selfish. The truth is Thomas would prefer to play the field as it would enhance his try for th HOF, and open avenues in the N.L., L.A. the probable. He would, as he has every single time in the past, step aside for the team, if asked.

[Texsox]

Would you agree, using only his on camera quotes, that Frank could have used some PR lessons through the years? MLB has rarely promoted him as a league superstar while others with lesser skills and stats have been. He has made some publicity blunders, and at times has left an impression to some as a whiner. In his defense many times it was him offering his honest appraisal of the situation.

[clujer420]

Would you agree, using only his on camera quotes, that Frank could have used some PR lessons through the years? MLB has rarely promoted him as a league superstar while others with lesser skills and stats have been. He has made some publicity blunders, and at times has left an impression to some as a whiner. In his defense many times it was him offering his honest appraisal of the situation.

I don't think Frank really cares about being portrayed by MLB as an elite superstar. He knows what he's done in this game and he knows what he's still capable of. Not only that, I think his teammates throughout the years and even still today know what he brings to the table. For Frank, I think that's all that matters.

[Texsox]

The truth is Thomas would prefer to play the field as it would enhance his try for th HOF, and open avenues in the N.L., L.A. the probable.

Good point. I wonder what his career numbers would have been if he played in the NL. I'm thinking his HOF position would be much better. It would be a crime if at the end of his career he isn't voted in, an even bigger misjustice than a certain Chicago 3rd baseman from the north side.

[Texsox]

I don't think Frank really cares about being portrayed by MLB as an elite superstar.  He knows what he's done in this game and he knows what he's still capable of.  Not only that, I think his teammates throughout the years and even still today know what he brings to the table.  For Frank, I think that's all that matters.

I believe you are 100% correct and in this age of ass kissing PR driven players (think hopping and blowing kisses) he may come off as whinning or selfish. When in fact he is the opposite.

[Guest Ncorgbl]

Would you agree, using only his on camera quotes, that Frank could have used some PR lessons through the years? MLB has rarely promoted him as a league superstar while others with lesser skills and stats have been. He has made some publicity blunders, and at times has left an impression to some as a whiner. In his defense many times it was him offering his honest appraisal of the situation.

Yes, absolutely. Frank is not a public speaker. I have said many times publically and to him that his next public statement should be at his HOF induction cermony. The first time I said that was right after the ARod fiasco, and Reinsorf ageed, as did Frank. His silence at the end of last season didn't work out well either.

[Jim Fainter]

One could say, "good morning" to a sportswriter, and he could make it look as if you were whining if he wanted.