LowerCaseRepublican Posted June 27, 2006 Share Posted June 27, 2006 QUOTE(minors @ Jun 26, 2006 -> 11:19 PM) That is correct Nuke, I believe you have won this debate His book never said it didn't happen. Like all debaters, it is known you can't prove a negative (i.e. I believe there is a nation of invisible squirrels on Soxtalk. Prove otherwise.) It says -- In the historical record -- police reports, news, etc. that there are no known cases of it being detailed. But let's keep misrepresenting it because hey, they're long posts with lots of text to read through. And Nuke -- I'd say the lack of government programs to help them cope with PTSD and other problems (not to mention that 1/3 of the homeless are veterans...or Hell, that the Gulf of Tonkin was quite likely an event that never took place to get us involved in yet another proxy war) is a disgrace to the treatment of veterans much moreso than an anecdotal story about some hippies. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NUKE_CLEVELAND Posted June 27, 2006 Author Share Posted June 27, 2006 QUOTE(LowerCaseRepublican @ Jun 26, 2006 -> 11:29 PM) His book never said it didn't happen. Like all debaters, it is known you can't prove a negative (i.e. I believe there is a nation of invisible squirrels on Soxtalk. Prove otherwise.) It says -- In the historical record -- police reports, news, etc. that there are no known cases of it being detailed. But let's keep misrepresenting it because hey, they're long posts with lots of text to read through. And Nuke -- I'd say the lack of government programs to help them cope with PTSD and other problems (not to mention that 1/3 of the homeless are veterans...or Hell, that the Gulf of Tonkin was quite likely an event that never took place to get us involved in yet another proxy war) is a disgrace to the treatment of veterans much moreso than an anecdotal story about some hippies. Lack of government programs? That kind of makes me chuckle because when I got back I was continually forced to see a counselor about PTSD even though there was nothing wrong with me and nothing ever surfaced later on. Usually I ended up going in and shooting the breeze with the counselor for a while before leaving. I think a far bigger problem with PTSD is that soldiers refuse to seek treatment for it because they think they will be percieved as weak. What would you have us do about the fact that 1/3rd of homeless are vets? If you want to vote them a "set for life" pension then do it but barring that they need to work on being as successful as a civillian as they were as a soldier. I see ex-soldiers leave the service all the time and were so focused on getting out of the service that they failed utterly to plan for their post-service life. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KipWellsFan Posted June 27, 2006 Share Posted June 27, 2006 QUOTE(NUKE_CLEVELAND @ Jun 26, 2006 -> 09:52 PM) How bout we ridicule you instead for failing to realize that the treatment of veterans when they arrived home from the war was absolutely reprehensible and these hippie cock suckers spitting on them as they returned home, calling them baby-killer and other assorted vile garbage was just insult to injury. It was bad enough they had to go fight a war that the politicians would not let them win but to come home and listen to and endure garbage like that from people like you made it an order of magnitude worse. Ahhh!!! Nuke, you missed my point. I'm saying what does this dumb spitting argument have do with this thread and American history in general? I'd never disrespect returning troops. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gregory Pratt Posted June 27, 2006 Share Posted June 27, 2006 So your little f***ing researcher went to all the 58,000+ funerals and all of the homecomeings to see himself? Answer no f***ing way which means he doesn't f***ing know plain and simple What are you getting pissed off at me for? I was seconding your motion! He should get the s*** beat out of him for doing research and coming to his own conclusion. The nerve! (I'm sure that veterans were spit on, contrary to the researcher's thesis, but I think it an incredible stretch to say it was some widespread phenomenom, and I think you've got issues to react to things the way you do, with "f*** YOU" and "DON'T TELL ME WHAT TO DO" and "HIPPIE f***ING LIBERALS LOLOL!".) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NUKE_CLEVELAND Posted June 27, 2006 Author Share Posted June 27, 2006 QUOTE(KipWellsFan @ Jun 27, 2006 -> 12:01 AM) Ahhh!!! Nuke, you missed my point. I'm saying what does this dumb spitting argument have do with this thread and American history in general? I'd never disrespect returning troops. I never said you personally would do something like that. I see your point now and apologize. This thread went off the tracks a long time ago and degenerated into a re-play of an old discussion we had here some time ago. I pretty much gave up on staying on topic here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
minors Posted June 27, 2006 Share Posted June 27, 2006 What are you getting pissed off at me for? I was seconding your motion! He should get the s*** beat out of him for doing research and coming to his own conclusion. The nerve! (I'm sure that veterans were spit on, contrary to the researcher's thesis, but I think it an incredible stretch to say it was some widespread phenomenom, and I think you've got issues to react to things the way you do, with "f*** YOU" and "DON'T TELL ME WHAT TO DO" and "HIPPIE f***ING LIBERALS LOLOL!".) Wow I am sorry I pressed reply to the wrong post. It was meant to be delivered at LCR. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gregory Pratt Posted June 27, 2006 Share Posted June 27, 2006 QUOTE(minors @ Jun 27, 2006 -> 12:11 AM) Wow I am sorry I pressed reply to the wrong post. It was meant to be delivered at LCR. Oh okay, I'm glad we're still on good terms, and I hope we can drink to the President someday!!!!!!!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
minors Posted June 27, 2006 Share Posted June 27, 2006 Oh okay, I'm glad we're still on good terms, and I hope we can drink to the President someday!!!!!!!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kapkomet Posted June 27, 2006 Share Posted June 27, 2006 I do not think it was common, but I know it happened. Personally spoke to a person who it happened to. He's my parent's next door neighbor. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gregory Pratt Posted June 27, 2006 Share Posted June 27, 2006 QUOTE(minors @ Jun 27, 2006 -> 12:17 AM) To pre-emptive war, deficits and fewer trees! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NUKE_CLEVELAND Posted June 27, 2006 Author Share Posted June 27, 2006 Im gonna take a shot at getting this thread back on topic. QUOTE(NorthSideSox72 @ Jun 26, 2006 -> 03:13 PM) I would contend this is being done as a combined move to appease not only voters in the U.S., but the major controlling factions of Iraqi government. The gamble they are taking is that they can still control things with a small-scale withdrawal. Given how tenuous things clearly are over there, I'd characterize that as russian roulette with out troops. I'd be pretty unhappy with it if I was in the military over there. Nuke, I'm kinda surprised you are OK with this. The reason we're starting to re-deploy is that the Iraqi security forces are assuming control over larger and larger swaths of the country and, in an increasing number of cases, are able to undertake counter-terror ops on their own and without US support. This is exactly what the President said was the deciding criterion for how many troops we keep over there. Contrary to how it may seem sometimes I DO want us to be done with Iraq but I also want it done the right way. Letting the status of Iraqi security forces and the situation on the ground dictate our actions is the right way to do this. Bottom line........they are starting to stand up so we are starting to stand down. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KipWellsFan Posted June 27, 2006 Share Posted June 27, 2006 QUOTE(NUKE_CLEVELAND @ Jun 27, 2006 -> 12:27 AM) Im gonna take a shot at getting this thread back on topic. The reason we're starting to re-deploy is that the Iraqi security forces are assuming control over larger and larger swaths of the country and, in an increasing number of cases, are able to undertake counter-terror ops on their own and without US support. This is exactly what the President said was the deciding criterion for how many troops we keep over there. Contrary to how it may seem sometimes I DO want us to be done with Iraq but I also want it done the right way. Letting the status of Iraqi security forces and the situation on the ground dictate our actions is the right way to do this. Bottom line........they are starting to stand up so we are starting to stand down. Bottom line........ we hope those silly Arabs will stand up because our white guys lives just aren't worth it anymore. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gregory Pratt Posted June 27, 2006 Share Posted June 27, 2006 QUOTE(NUKE_CLEVELAND @ Jun 27, 2006 -> 12:27 AM) Im gonna take a shot at getting this thread back on topic. The reason we're starting to re-deploy is that the Iraqi security forces are assuming control over larger and larger swaths of the country and, in an increasing number of cases, are able to undertake counter-terror ops on their own and without US support. This is exactly what the President said was the deciding criterion for how many troops we keep over there. Contrary to how it may seem sometimes I DO want us to be done with Iraq but I also want it done the right way. Letting the status of Iraqi security forces and the situation on the ground dictate our actions is the right way to do this. Bottom line........they are starting to stand up so we are starting to stand down. Or, everything is going miserably, as I contend with the Khali memo as my base, and we've realized that us being there isn't quite helping. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NUKE_CLEVELAND Posted June 27, 2006 Author Share Posted June 27, 2006 QUOTE(KipWellsFan @ Jun 27, 2006 -> 12:32 AM) Bottom line........ we hope those silly Arabs will stand up because our white guys lives just aren't worth it anymore. Dude. Thats every bit as rediculous as it is cynical. Shame on you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KipWellsFan Posted June 27, 2006 Share Posted June 27, 2006 QUOTE(NUKE_CLEVELAND @ Jun 27, 2006 -> 12:49 AM) Dude. Thats every bit as rediculous as it is cynical. Shame on you. I just hope this slow withdrawal, if it actually happens is best for the region. And it probably isn't. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
minors Posted June 27, 2006 Share Posted June 27, 2006 Bottom line........ we hope those silly Arabs will stand up because our white guys lives just aren't worth it anymore. That is a stupid comment. :headshake Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KipWellsFan Posted June 27, 2006 Share Posted June 27, 2006 (edited) QUOTE(minors @ Jun 27, 2006 -> 01:22 AM) That is a stupid comment. :headshake Well, I believe it's just as realisitic as, "as we stand down, the Iraqi people will stand up" I'm not sure they'll actually be reducing their troops, and if they actually do I doubt the Iraqi people will be able to stand up against the multitude of forces working against the central government. In Afghanistan, while a different environment, the central government still isn't relied upon to stand up for themselves. It's bleak. Edited June 27, 2006 by KipWellsFan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NorthSideSox72 Posted June 27, 2006 Share Posted June 27, 2006 This thread has all sorts of ugly stuff in it, but it seems to have settled down a bit. I'd ask that we please try to keep it civil, so that the discussion may continue. Thank you for your support. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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