Javier Vazquez

[SoxAce]

Boy this is soxtalk for ya. Make one bad start and your in the doghouse. I wonder when Buehrle gives up like 10 runs will people jump him too? I would expect alot of posters here who are jumping on Vasquez (except Aboz who will never bash Buehrle) to do the same with Buehrle.

[Dick Allen]

His ERA against teams other than Cleveland and KC is 7.52. He's been lights out against KC, and the first 2 times against Cleveland, although they scored a few runs off him his last start against them. Considering what they gave up, and what Vazquez is paid, unless Vazquez turns around his AL performance, and don't say he just couldn't handle NY because he made the All Star team and then fell apart, the Young, Vizcaino, Hernandez for Vazquez trade, may be the worst trade KW ever made.

 

Boy this is soxtalk for ya. Make one bad start and your in the doghouse. I wonder when Buehrle gives up like 10 runs will people jump him too? I would expect alot of posters here who are jumping on Vasquez (except Aboz who will never bash Buehrle) to do the same with Buehrle.

1 bad start? He's been pretty brutal for a while.

[shoota]

Boy this is soxtalk for ya. Make one bad start and your in the doghouse. I wonder when Buehrle gives up like 10 runs will people jump him too? I would expect alot of posters here who are jumping on Vasquez (except Aboz who will never bash Buehrle) to do the same with Buehrle.

 

A 5.00 era on June 26th equals one bad start?

[SoxAce]

1 bad start? He's been pretty brutal for a while.

 

For a while ey... And yet you guys waited all this time to finally say that he's awful doesn't speak volumes for itself? Hmmmm

 

A 5.00 era on June 26th equals one bad start?

 

:lol:

 

Don't give me that s*** cause comming into this game his era was like 4.52 or so. If he have a 6+ 0-1R game this thread wouldn't even be up here. That is my point.

[shoota]

For a while ey... And yet you guys waited all this time to finally say that he's awful doesn't speak volumes for itself? Hmmmm

 

And the fact that you still don't think he's bad means...

[ZoomSlowik]

I'd much rather hang onto Vazquez than Garcia or Garland. His stuff is considerably better than the other two, and the money is basically a push when you factor in the money we got from Arizona. His problems are in his head, and you can work with those issues. Contreras was an absolute mess when we got him, and that's turned out great. Give the guy a chance. Until this round through the rotation, he was still pitching considerably better than Freddy and Garland as well. His ERA at the start of the day was 4.43, which is a number we would have killed for from a bottom of the rotation starter 2 years ago. We got a little spoiled last year with all of our starters pitching pretty well most of the year. That doesn't happen very often.

 

For a team that's 49-26 and was 3rd in the AL in runs allowed and 4th in ERA at the start of the day, people sure b**** about our pitching a lot.

Edited June 26, 2006 by ZoomSlowik

[shoota]

For a while ey... And yet you guys waited all this time to finally say that he's awful doesn't speak volumes for itself? Hmmmm

:lol:

Don't give me that s*** cause comming into this game his era was like 4.52 or so. If he have a 6+ 0-1R game this thread wouldn't even be up here. That is my point.

 

That is a good point.

[ZoomSlowik]

Don't give me that s*** cause comming into this game his era was like 4.52 or so. If he have a 6+ 0-1R game this thread wouldn't even be up here. That is my point.

 

4.43 actually.

[SoxAce]

I'd much rather hang onto Vazquez than Garcia or Garland. His stuff is considerably better than the other two, and the money is basically a push when you factor in the money we got from Arizona. His problems are in his head, and you can work with those issues. Contreras was an absolute mess when we got him, and that's turned out great. Give the guy a chance. Until this round through the rotation, he was still pitching considerably better than Freddy and Garland as well. His ERA at the start of the day was 4.46, which is a number we would have killed for from a bottom of the rotation starter 2 years ago. We got a little spoiled last year with all of our starters pitching pretty well most of the year. That doesn't happen very often.

 

For a team that's 49-26 and was 3rd in the AL in runs allowed and 4th in ERA at the start of the day, people sure b**** about our pitching a lot.

 

Excellent post. One of the rare ones that made sense on this thread.

 

4.43 actually.

 

Ah even better. Thank you.

[Dick Allen]

4.43 actually.

Getting 3 starts already against KC will help your ERA. His ERA is over 6.00 against teams not named the Royals.

[Kalapse]

Getting 3 starts already against KC will help your ERA. His ERA is over 6.00 against teams not named the Royals.

Cherry picking is the height of lame.

[Dick Allen]

Cherry picking is the height of lame.

He's had 4 starts giving up 6 runs or more. 6 giving up 5 runs or more. He's pitched 8 innings once. This is not a $12.5 million pitcher. KC is a minor league team.

Edited June 26, 2006 by Dick Allen

[shoota]

Cherry picking is the height of lame.

 

Then there goes the Vazquez defense of having one bad start.

 

Current non-cherry picked era: 5.00

[elrockinMT]

You want to find something positive to say about a Sox player no matter what, but it is difficult with Vazquez. He has had some good games and shows a lot of talent and potential, but the poor pitch selection on two strike counts is horrendous. He then gets shook up and blows big time even more. The guy needs to grow a pair and get some smarts about how, what and good pitching. He has screwed up way too much. But, we can say that about Jon Garland and Freddie Garcia also. They are not consistent. A real good game one time out and suck big time the next.

Edited June 26, 2006 by elrockinMT

[Dick Allen]

The scary thing is he hasn't started giving up homers at an incredible clip yet, although a couple tonight. If he starts doing that like he did in NY and AZ, his ERA will skyrocket.

[Kalapse]

Then there goes the Vazquez defense of having one bad start.

 

Current non-cherry picked era: 5.00

That wasn't the point people were making, he's had more than one bad start so that wouldn't even make any sense. Re-read SoxAce's posts.

[beautox]

I'd much rather hang onto Vazquez than Garcia or Garland. His stuff is considerably better than the other two, and the money is basically a push when you factor in the money we got from Arizona. His problems are in his head, and you can work with those issues. Contreras was an absolute mess when we got him, and that's turned out great. Give the guy a chance. Until this round through the rotation, he was still pitching considerably better than Freddy and Garland as well. His ERA at the start of the day was 4.43, which is a number we would have killed for from a bottom of the rotation starter 2 years ago. We got a little spoiled last year with all of our starters pitching pretty well most of the year. That doesn't happen very often.

 

For a team that's 49-26 and was 3rd in the AL in runs allowed and 4th in ERA at the start of the day, people sure b**** about our pitching a lot.

 

all good points, '05 definatly spoiled me.

[Dick Allen]

You want to find something to say about a Sox player no matter what, but it is difficult with Vazquez. He has had some good games and shows a lot of talent and potential, but the poor pitch selection on two strike counts is horrendous. He then gets shook up and blows big time even more. The guy needs to grow a pair and get some smarts about how, what and good pitching. He has screwed up way too much. But, we can say that about Jon Garland and Freddie Garcia also. They are not consistent. A real good game one time out and suck big time the next.

That's the thing. He has so much ability, it makes it so frustrating to watch. When the wheels fall off for him, they all fall off.

[SoxFan1]

He needs to be more confident and relaxed when he pitches. He is suffering from Contreras pre-2005 syndrome. Trust your fastball and use that nasty slider more. Stay focused and don't explode if you don't get a call or give up a HR.

Edited June 26, 2006 by SoxFan1

[Jordan4life_2007]

I'd much rather hang onto Vazquez than Garcia or Garland. His stuff is considerably better than the other two, and the money is basically a push when you factor in the money we got from Arizona. His problems are in his head, and you can work with those issues. Contreras was an absolute mess when we got him, and that's turned out great. Give the guy a chance. Until this round through the rotation, he was still pitching considerably better than Freddy and Garland as well. His ERA at the start of the day was 4.43, which is a number we would have killed for from a bottom of the rotation starter 2 years ago. We got a little spoiled last year with all of our starters pitching pretty well most of the year. That doesn't happen very often.

 

For a team that's 49-26 and was 3rd in the AL in runs allowed and 4th in ERA at the start of the day, people sure b**** about our pitching a lot.

 

Good post Zoom. I'm just looking at the big picture. I want to start to see some consistency from guys not named Contreras and Buehrle.

[Dick Allen]

One positive is the bullpen has been great the last 2 nights, even with tonight's loss. A real RF probably catches that triple.

[beautox]

He needs to be more confident and relaxed when he pitches. He is suffering from Contreras pre-2005 syndrome. Trust your fastball and use that nasty slider more. Stay focused and don't explode if you don't get a call or give up a HR.

agreed. Hopefully him and Garland will turn it around after the ASG and pitch like they are capable of ala Jose. Also Freddy needs to bring his A game every time out, i hate the fact that he doesn't pitch to his potential everytime.

 

I'm just glad Brian suspension is over and now he can go back to patroling CF and Mackowiak and go back to being a vital tool off the bench and also our Bullpen has been amazing sans Montero, and i look forward to seeing any one of these names in (Hermanson, Cliff, Tracey)

[Dick Allen]

agreed. Hopefully him and Garland will turn it around after the ASG and pitch like they are capable of ala Jose. Also Freddy needs to bring his A game every time out, i hate the fact that he doesn't pitch to his potential everytime.

 

I'm just glad Brian suspension is over and now he can go back to patroling CF and Mackowiak and go back to being a vital tool off the bench and also our Bullpen has been amazing sans Montero, and i look forward to seeing any one of these names in (Hermanson, Cliff, Tracey)

Montero didn't help Vazquez at all when he entered.

[beautox]

I know, thats why i said sans Montero

[Capn12]

This bullpen, SANS Montero, pleases me greatly right now. They are throwing very well. Cliff Politte, please report to the bullpen so we can buy Montero his bus ticket soon.