Javier Vazquez

[SoxAce]

This is not a $12.5 million pitcher.

I'll give you this statement since your factoring in the $$$

 

KC is a minor league team.

 

Now that's just plain ignorant. So I guess the Brew Crew is also a minor league team since KC just swept them?

 

I'm not making any excuses for Javier. He hasn't pitched to his ability yet but since he had a horrid start today, several of you wait till now to bash him? Like I said before if he had a 6+ 0-1R start this thread would be mute. If Garcia would have had a bad start his last game instead of a good one then everyone would have his head. The only starter where I can say deserves any bashing this season is Garland and techincally his last outing, he pitched better than his numbers indicate (bad D behind him) Once Vasquez has his great outing say next time, will this thread be back up? It'll be a back and forth process. Garcia's era before that stellar outing he had was in the 5's. Now it's back to respectable. If your gonna bash someone, be consistant with it.

Edited June 26, 2006 by SoxAce

[beautox]

Lets all just thank our lucky stars that we don't have Josh Towers on our staff, and respect Vazquez for what he is on this team, a 5th starter, and a good one at that.

[Jordan4life_2007]

One positive is the bullpen has been great the last 2 nights, even with tonight's loss. A real RF probably catches that triple.

 

The 'pen has been great for about 3 weeks now.

[beautox]

The pen has been really good, going into tonight they had lowered their ERA from 4.41 to 4.23 and opposing hitters are hitting .252 against them. Some bad new from reading this Cliff in 1IP on Saturday gave up 3 hits and 1 ER. :headshake

[shoota]

That wasn't the point people were making, he's had more than one bad start so that wouldn't even make any sense. Re-read SoxAce's posts.

 

My first interpretation of the posters' analysis was correct.

 

SoxAce defended Vazquez by saying posters shouldn't criticize Vazquez for one bad start because it ballooned his ERA to a level uncharacteristic of his season-long performance:

 

Don't give me that s*** cause comming into this game his era was like 4.52 or so. If he have a 6+ 0-1R game this thread wouldn't even be up here. That is my point.

 

DickAllen countered that opinion by using showing that Vazquez’s ERA is even higher when his starts against KC aren’t included.

 

Kalapse, you responded to DickAllen saying, “Cherry picking is the height of lame,” to which I responded with, “Then there goes the Vazquez defense of having one bad start. Current non-cherry picked era: 5.00,” taking the discussion full-circle.

Edited June 26, 2006 by shoota

[beautox]

Kalapse, you responded to DickAllen saying, “Cherry picking is the height of lame,” to which I responded with, “Then there goes the Vazquez defense of having one bad start. Current non-cherry picked era: 5.00,” taking the discussion full-circle.

ah the alpha and omega that is Vazquez

[rangercal]

He CAN fool hitters but his problem is that he's a mental midget. If he makes one bad pitch or gets one bad call from the ump he completely loses it and that's that.

Fathom would not understand that. He backs all his arguments with a statbook.

[DBAHO]

Vaz has gotta improve no doubt. We've seen what he can do at his best, in some of his outings earlier in the season.

 

Just needs to develop that conisistency, which we've seen before the likes of Contreras had problems with.

 

One positive is the bullpen has been great the last 2 nights, even with tonight's loss. A real RF probably catches that triple.

Just another reason as to why Ross Gload should be replaced as the 25th man by a REAL outfielder.

[qwerty]

Vaz has gotta improve no doubt. We've seen what he can do at his best, in some of his outings earlier in the season.

 

Just needs to develop that conisistency, which we've seen before the likes of Contreras had problems with.

Just another reason as to why Ross Gload should be replaced as the 25th man by a REAL outfielder.

 

When dye made that good catch a few days ago he was above average in the field around here...

[fathom]

Fathom would not understand that. He backs all his arguments with a statbook.

 

Actually, I'm one of the last people on this site that uses stats. Rather, I use my own eyes to make observations. And with that, I will say that Vazquez isn't keeping hitters off-balanced. Rather, he's throwing way too many pitches over the heart of the plate (as JimH accurately points out). He really needs to use his changeup and slider more than he is. His loopy curve hasn't been fooling anyone.

[BigSqwert]

I'm not making any excuses for Javier. He hasn't pitched to his ability yet...

He hasn't pitched to his ability for about 3 years now. Who knows if he will at all this year. He won't be facing KC every time out.

[Controlled Chaos]

Javy is 8-4 and has eaten up 95.1 innings. If he gets to 14-15 wins and continues to eat up innings at his current pace, then we pretty much got what I expected.

 

He's frustrating at times no doubt, but Javy has some wicked stuff as well. I have no doubt he can put together a nice little streak. He has made some hitters look just silly at the plate. Did everyone here think we were getting a #1 starter for El Duque??

[BigSqwert]

I guess I don't consider eating up 6 innings in a game while giving up 9 runs to be a plus.

[S720]

Javy is 8-4 and has eaten up 95.1 innings. If he gets to 14-15 wins and continues to eat up innings at his current pace, then we pretty much got what I expected.

 

He's frustrating at times no doubt, but Javy has some wicked stuff as well. I have no doubt he can put together a nice little streak. He has made some hitters look just silly at the plate. Did everyone here think we were getting a #1 starter for El Duque??

 

#5 starter doesn't get paid $12 millions. I was a huge supporter for this trade, but so far, I feel that Vazquez has not been living up to his huge contract. It's NOT El Duque AND Vizcaino that I'm beginning to feel the regret of the trade. Chris Young is!

 

Anyway, it's still early. If Vazquez can turn it around, great! By the way, that's the one pitcher that Cooper has not been able to help.

[BigSqwert]

By the way, that's the one pitcher that Cooper has not been able to help.

Or Garland this year.

[S720]

Or Garland this year.

 

Perhaps, the question we should ask, "What's going on with Cooper?"

 

NAH!

[Controlled Chaos]

I guess I don't consider eating up 6 innings in a game while giving up 9 runs to be a plus.

 

Yes, that's what I said.

[southsider2k5]

Vazquez reminds a lot of Garland in his early years here... He has an electric arm, probably only second to Contreras in terms of pure stuff, but it takes nothing to get to him. He really needs to go to the AJ School of Cajones and learn to just tough it up. He seems like the kind of guy who when he "gets it" will take off and start winning 18-20 games a year.

[BigSqwert]

Vazquez reminds a lot of Garland in his early years here... He has an electric arm, probably only second to Contreras in terms of pure stuff, but it takes nothing to get to him. He really needs to go to the AJ School of Cajones and learn to just tough it up. He seems like the kind of guy who when he "gets it" will take off and start winning 18-20 games a year.

As soon as he served up that 1st HR last night and flailed his arms I knew he wasn't done giving up runs. He has trouble keeping his cool after a bad pitch or bad call from an ump and it's apparent from a mile away.

[Hangar18]

Vazquez is the 5th starter we've always wanted, but never had til last season. His head isnt in the game as much as you would like, hence the "pitches like a 5th starter" tag Ive given him.

[Controlled Chaos]

We have 4 guys with 8 wins or more and Javy is one of those guys. Guess how many other teams can claim that?? ZERO. I know his era isn't where I want it and I know he has beaten up on KC, but he has beaten some pretty good hitting teams too in Clev, Sea, and Texas. I think the more time Coop has with him, the better he'll be. I'm hardly ready to trade him or write him off as a bad trade. Only on our team do we consider an 8-4 starter a liability.

[southsider2k5]

We have 4 guys with 8 wins or more and Javy is one of those guys. Guess how many other teams can claim that?? ZERO. I know his era isn't where I want it and I know he has beaten up on KC, but he has beaten some pretty good hitting teams too in Clev, Sea, and Texas. I think the more time Coop has with him, the better he'll be. I'm hardly ready to trade him or write him off as a bad trade. Only on our team do we consider an 8-4 starter a liability.

 

Just like with Contreras, you can't write off a guy who has an arm like that, especially on a team that has a history of turning around these type of players.

[Milkman delivers]

I compared Vazquez to El Duque earlier this year. He's just not fun to watch because he has all the talent in the world, but he has no idea how to pitch.

 

EDIT: And I don't mean El Duque didn't know how to pitch. I'm just saying it's not fun to watch either pitcher.

Edited June 26, 2006 by Milkman delivers

[VAfan]

Overall, there isn't a whit of difference between Freddy Garcia's and Javier Vazquez's numbers this year. Freddie, in fact, is the one giving up the long ball more frequently -- 17 v. 9 for JV.

 

Freddy Garcia 15 15 9 4 0 9 0 96.2 102 50 51 17 24 57 5.31 103.3 1.30 4.66

Javier Vazquez 15 15 8 4 0 8 0 95.1 101 53 54 9 24 75 7.08 103.9 1.31 5.00

 

So, both of these guys need to pick it up. But I think there is evidence they will. We know Freddie's history. Here's Vazquez's game log until last night.

 

Apr. 8 @KC L 4-3 7.0 5 2 2 0 1 7 5 11 98 28 65 - - 2.57

Apr. 14 TOR L 13-7 6.0 9 7 7 1 1 4 7 9 102 27 29 L(0-1) - 6.23

Apr. 19 KC W 4-0 8.0 2 0 0 0 1 7 6 9 108 26 84 W(1-1) - 3.86

Apr. 25 @SEA W 13-3 6.0 4 2 2 0 2 2 9 3 109 22 56 W(2-1) - 3.67

May. 1 @CLE W 8-6 6.0 6 1 0 0 3 7 7 5 100 26 62 W(3-1) - 3.00

May. 6 KC W 9-2 7.2 4 2 2 0 0 6 10 8 116 26 69 W(4-1) - 2.88

May. 13 @MIN L 8-4 5.2 10 7 7 1 0 2 10 9 86 29 23 L(4-2) - 3.89

May. 18 @TB L 5-4 7.0 8 5 5 2 1 4 7 13 109 30 44 L(4-3) - 4.22

May. 23 OAK W 9-3 6.0 6 3 3 1 4 3 9 7 109 29 47 W(5-3) - 4.25

May. 29 @CLE W 11-0 6.0 2 0 0 0 3 4 7 6 106 23 69 W(6-3) - 3.86

Jun. 3 TEX W 8-6 6.1 11 5 5 0 1 7 10 10 115 32 37 W(7-3) - 4.14

Jun. 9 CLE W 5-4 5.2 7 3 3 0 1 9 10 4 110 29 51 - - 4.19

Jun. 14 @TEX L 8-0 6.0 10 6 6 2 2 7 11 6 99 30 33 L(7-4) - 4.54

Jun. 20 STL W 20-6 6.0 7 2 2 0 2 3 11 8 97 26 51 W(8-4) - 4.43

 

Out of 15 starts, 9 have been "quality" starts. That's not very consistent. However, it is also very possible he'll have a run like he had at the start of the season with 5 out of 6 very good games. After all, none of our starters has been perfectly consistent this year -- not even undefeated Jose Contreras.

 

I think the jury is still out on Vazquez. But there's no way we'll trade him mid-year at this point (and I was the one who wrote the "Sign Contreras, Trade Vazquez mid-year" thread in the offseason). McCarthy has been inconsistent himself and still gives us important bullpen depth.

 

We need to hang in there with our starters. Once our bullpen comes around -- and with the addition of Riske and the maturation of Matt Thornton it is looking a lot better -- I expect our starters to start to click.

[zygoat]

vazquez was the second most consisent in the begining of the year (behind Jose) and helped us along when we were playing like s***

 

now that everyone is coming around, he is letting down and pitching like a 13 year old girl

 

get wiht the team Javy