> Supreme Court rules for Kansas Death penalty

[Gregory Pratt]

These guys already committed murder. Are you one of these people who think prisoners can be rehabilitated?

 

Yes, I'll answer for him. He does.

 

He's one of those bastards who believe in such fantasy as minimum wage, universal health care, and peace on Earth.

 

So don't worry about what he thinks. We all know that prisoners are beyond rehabilitation.

 

[minors]

You're creating a false dichotomy -- that the people would be alive if only the offenders were executed. There's more choices to be made than either "Release or execute." There's the adequate funding and ending the psychotic drug war statutes that allow violent offenders to be released early because there is no room in the over-crowded prisons.

 

 

These murderers got sentence that Liberals think is the best in LWOP yet they somehow got out. In these cases they either get LWOP or Death the juries choose life and the blood of all innocent people who later died is on there hands. The war on drugs should have nothing to do with it the real issue is the weak juries and parole boards. I personally don't think there should be any parole on any Part 1 crime serve the max is fine with me.

 

And I'm also interested in your take on the Darrow statement I put in this thread from a capital case he was a lawyer for (two older boys kidnapped and killed a 14 year old): "What is [the State's Attorney's] idea of justice? He says to this court...'Give them the same mercy that they gave to Bobby Franks.' Is that the law? Is that justice? Is this what a court should do? Is this what a State's Attorney should do? If the state in which I live is not kinder, more human, more considerate, more intelligent than the mad act of these two boys, I am sorry that I have lived so long."

 

 

I really don't think the poor victims who get there heads bashed in or raped repeatedly and then stabbed 100 times and have there bodies burned compared with killers get a lethal injection which when they die are already knocked out is the same do you think so? If not then that whole statement is garbage

Edited June 29, 2006 by minors

[LowerCaseRepublican]

These murderers got sentence that Liberals think is the best in LWOP yet they somehow got out. In these cases they either get LWOP or Death the juries choose life and the blood of all innocent people who later died is on there hands. The war on drugs should have nothing to do with it the real issue is the weak juries and parole boards. I personally don't think there should be any parole on any Part 1 crime serve the max is fine with me.

I really don't think the poor victims who get there heads bashed in or raped repeatedly and then stabbed 100 times and have there bodies burned compared with killers get a lethal injection which when they die are already knocked out is the same do you think so? If not then that whole statement is garbage

Homonym (n.) A word that has the same pronunciation as another.

i.e. ...is on their hands -- not ...is on there hands

 

The War on Drugs has everything to do with it because it is the primary reason violent drug offenders are getting out of jail -- to make room for non-violent possession offenders with mandatory minimum sentences.

 

Judge James Gray's text Why Our Drug Laws Have Failed and What We Can Do About It: A Judicial Indictment of the War on Drugs

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/156639860...glance&n=283155

 

The book details the idea of mandatory minimums making it difficult for actual violent offenders to be kept in prison -- most times forcing paroles for violent offenders. Increased law enforcement abilities to monitor prisoners in less crowded prisons (via ending the war on drugs with mandatory minimums for simple possession offenders) delivers an effective alternative to whacking violent criminals.

 

And oh yes, clearly you missed the point of the Darrow quote -- how can a state say that they value the sanctity of human life yet are willing to kill? He is saying that the state must be more reasonable, compassionate and intelligent than to repay violence with more violence. It's quite a simple concept.

[minors]

Homonym (n.) A word that has the same pronunciation as another.

i.e. ...is on their hands -- not ...is on there hands

 

The War on Drugs has everything to do with it because it is the primary reason violent drug offenders are getting out of jail -- to make room for non-violent possession offenders with mandatory minimum sentences.

 

Judge James Gray's text Why Our Drug Laws Have Failed and What We Can Do About It: A Judicial Indictment of the War on Drugs

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/156639860...glance&n=283155

 

The book details the idea of mandatory minimums making it difficult for actual violent offenders to be kept in prison -- most times forcing paroles for violent offenders. Increased law enforcement abilities to monitor prisoners in less crowded prisons (via ending the war on drugs with mandatory minimums for simple possession offenders) delivers an effective alternative to whacking violent criminals.

 

And oh yes, clearly you missed the point of the Darrow quote -- how can a state say that they value the sanctity of human life yet are willing to kill? He is saying that the state must be more reasonable, compassionate and intelligent than to repay violence with more violence. It's quite a simple concept.

 

State to be more reasonable?? When your dealing with people who kill 5-10 and the state gives the person a fair trial several appeals and then 5 years + in jail until they hand out a lethal injection how can you get any more fair? This something we are not going to agree on ( I am not going to convince you & you are not going to convince me). So lets agree to disagree

[FlaSoxxJim]

State to be more reasonable?? When your dealing with people who kill 5-10 . . .

 

People who kill 5-10? s***, thoese are like bankers' hours. Nice work if you can get it, I guess.

 

[Cknolls]

Yes, I'll answer for him. He does.

 

He's one of those bastards who believe in such fantasy as minimum wage, universal health care, and peace on Earth.

 

So don't worry about what he thinks. We all know that prisoners are beyond rehabilitation.

 

 

 

KUMBAYA MY LORD KUMBAYA

[NUKE_CLEVELAND]

KUMBAYA MY LORD KUMBAYA

 

 

You forgot the flowers and candy! We can't have a good hippie love fest without the flowers and candy dammit!!!! Bring some ganja while you're at it. Gotta get high.....er i mean use it for medicinal purposes. They'd probably invite some terrorist.....er........i mean oppressed Muslim victim of the evil United States and its aggression.....to speak to them too.

[illinilaw08]

Between 1963 and 1999, 381 people have had their homicide convictions overturned including 67 that had been sentenced to death, sometimes exonerated hours before their execution. The Tribune ran several reports as to why this happened, linked below.

 

http://www.soci.niu.edu/~critcrim/wrong/tribpros.html

 

The thing that bothers me about the death penalty is that the court system is not infallible. I don't know about the rest of you, but I would rather see a guilty man spend life in prison (life without parole) than see an innocent man put do death because once that injection is made, there is no chance to rectify the mistake.

Edited June 29, 2006 by illinilaw08

[BigSqwert]

I don't know about the rest of you, but I would rather see a guilty man spend life in prison (life without parole) than see an innocent man put do death because once that injection is made, there is no chance to rectify the mistake.

I couldn't agree more but most people here thing I'm some kind of hippie.

Edited June 29, 2006 by BigSqwert

[FlaSoxxJim]

I couldn't agree more but most people here thing I'm some kind of hippie.

Take a bath. Get a haircut. And a job. That is all.

[BigSqwert]

Take a bath. Get a haircut. And a job. That is all.

I can't. I'm still milking the government for Katrina money.

[LowerCaseRepublican]

You forgot the flowers and candy! We can't have a good hippie love fest without the flowers and candy dammit!!!! Bring some ganja while you're at it. Gotta get high.....er i mean use it for medicinal purposes. They'd probably invite some terrorist.....er........i mean oppressed Muslim victim of the evil United States and its aggression.....to speak to them too.

Yeah Nuke, you sure nailed me.

 

When you get owned by the facts, slander the person who said them with lame insults. It's not an effective modus operandi.

 

/chalks up my debate win

[NUKE_CLEVELAND]

Yeah Nuke, you sure nailed me.

 

When you get owned by the facts, slander the person who said them with lame insults. It's not an effective modus operandi.

 

/chalks up my debate win

 

 

LOL!

 

 

Owned by what facts? On what point?

 

 

 

 

Did I make any points at all in this thread at all for you to "own" me on? I don't recall even posting in this thread until I saw the hippie comment and got a chuckle by adding on to it. If I did make an argument that you "owned" me on please refresh my memory.

 

BTW.........If you want me to slander you I'll be more than happy to do it. Dumbass.

Edited June 29, 2006 by NUKE_CLEVELAND

[LowerCaseRepublican]

LOL!

Owned by what facts? On what point?

Did I make any points at all in this thread at all for you to "own" me on? I don't recall even posting in this thread until I saw the hippie comment and got a chuckle by adding on to it. If I did make an argument that you "owned" me on please refresh my memory.

 

BTW.........If you want me to slander you I'll be more than happy to do it. Dumbass.

From the mod POV, watch it with the personal attacks.

 

Secondly -- it was the point of view that dismissed any arguments made by the anti DP side with the ever so cliche "Well, he just wants to give candy to terrorists!" crap.

[NUKE_CLEVELAND]

From the mod POV, watch it with the personal attacks.

 

Secondly -- it was the point of view that dismissed any arguments made by the anti DP side with the ever so cliche "Well, he just wants to give candy to terrorists!" crap.

 

 

Ok. From the poster point of view if you dont want to get attacked personally then dont provoke me by calling me out when I didn't even have a hand in this debate.

 

 

Secondly, The "you just want to give candy to terrorists" statement can be morphed and made relevant here by simply removing terrorists and replacing it with a scumbag group of your choosing ( murderers, rapists, thieves, drug pushers......etc....etc...).

[Gregory Pratt]

You forgot the flowers and candy! We can't have a good hippie love fest without the flowers and candy dammit!!!! Bring some ganja while you're at it. Gotta get high.....er i mean use it for medicinal purposes. They'd probably invite some terrorist.....er........i mean oppressed Muslim victim of the evil United States and its aggression.....to speak to them too.

 

Hippie lovefests are good candidates for flowers and candy, that's true.

But you can't have an invasion without flowers and candy, either.

[LowerCaseRepublican]

Ok. From the poster point of view if you dont want to get attacked personally then dont provoke me by calling me out when I didn't even have a hand in this debate.

Secondly, The "you just want to give candy to terrorists" statement can be morphed and made relevant here by simply removing terrorists and replacing it with a scumbag group of your choosing ( murderers, rapists, thieves, drug pushers......etc....etc...).

Nuke, it's not even relevant to the debate.

 

The candy to...argument is an over-simplifaction and a very poorly created false dichotomy (i.e. "We must kill inmates!" or "We want to give them candy and cake and let them go.") when there are more options that you either fail to mention or fail to see.

 

I'd hardly consider 22-23 hours a day in a cell to be "candy". Capital punishment should be questioned by any sane and rational person given the arbitrary nature of its use, the racial and class discrimination so very evident in the use of it, the alternatives to the death penalty (i.e. life without parole when they have room to house people -- by getting rid of mandatory minimums for simple possession non-violent offenders), the chances that innocent people can and have been executed, the numerous exonerations from death row that have occurred and by people who believe in the fundamental dignity of all human life.

[FlaSoxxJim]

Hippie lovefests are good candidates for flowers and candy, that's true.

But you can't have an invasion without flowers and candy, either.

 

NOT invasion. Liberation.. Get it right. Now shut up and get back in line.

[NorthSideSox72]

Can we take it down a notch, please?

 

No need to be calling anyone a Dumbass, Nuke. That was uncalled for.

 

Let's all think before we add that last sentence to our posts (we all do it - the last little stab). Then we can keep this thread open for further discussion.

[Gregory Pratt]

NOT invasion. Liberation.. Get it right. Now shut up and get back in line.

 

I have been thoroughly beaten into line.

[FlaSoxxJim]

Let's all think before we add that last sentence to our posts (we all do it - the last little stab). Then we can keep this thread open for further discussion.

 

Well, you shoud see what he wanted to write!

 

Sorry.

 

I promise not to be a Soxtalk trouble maker. I promise not to be a Soxtalk trouble maker. I promise not to be a Soxtalk trouble maker. I promise . . .

[/end Bart's chalkboard]

[NUKE_CLEVELAND]

Nuke, it's not even relevant to the debate.

 

The candy to...argument is an over-simplifaction and a very poorly created false dichotomy (i.e. "We must kill inmates!" or "We want to give them candy and cake and let them go.") when there are more options that you either fail to mention or fail to see.

 

I'd hardly consider 22-23 hours a day in a cell to be "candy". Capital punishment should be questioned by any sane and rational person given the arbitrary nature of its use, the racial and class discrimination so very evident in the use of it, the alternatives to the death penalty (i.e. life without parole when they have room to house people -- by getting rid of mandatory minimums for simple possession non-violent offenders), the chances that innocent people can and have been executed, the numerous exonerations from death row that have occurred and by people who believe in the fundamental dignity of all human life.

 

 

Yawn. :rolly

 

We've been over this ground many many times haven't we? I want the death penalty imposed in a uniform manner for a series of the worst crimes. That addresses all your concerns regarding race, class, etc.....etc...

 

I also agree that those busted for posession can be dealt with ( at least the 1st time ) with a huge fine and some probation.

 

Your bit about the fundamental dignity of all human life is laughable. Career criminals are not human beings in my view......they are scum. People who sell poison to children are not people.........they are scum. That also applies to rapists, child molestors and murderers. Scum like that needs to be cleansed and you dont do it by stockpiling it in a warehouse.

[minors]

LOL!

Owned by what facts? On what point?

Did I make any points at all in this thread at all for you to "own" me on? I don't recall even posting in this thread until I saw the hippie comment and got a chuckle by adding on to it. If I did make an argument that you "owned" me on please refresh my memory.

 

BTW.........If you want me to slander you I'll be more than happy to do it. Dumbass.

 

Watch it nuke say something they don't like and they try and get you banned

[NUKE_CLEVELAND]

Watch it nuke say something they don't like and they try and get you banned

 

 

They all love me here. They're just afraid to show it.

 

[minors]

This defeats the racist argument:

 

 

A 2002 Rand Corporation study by Stephen Klein found that white murderers received the death penalty slightly more often (32%) than non-white murderers (27%). And while the study found murderers of white victims received the death penalty more often (32%) than murderers of non-white victims (23%), when controlled for variables such as severity and number of crimes committed, there is no disparity between those sentenced to death for killing white or black victims.

Patrick A. Lanagan, senior statistician at the Dept. of Justice Bureau of Justice Statistics has studied the system in its entirety, and reports:

 

 

"I don't find evidence that the justice system is treating blacks and whites differently."

 

 

Hard to dispute a independent study.