watchtower41 Posted June 29, 2006 Share Posted June 29, 2006 Besides Burls start on Tuesday, weve been through the rotation twice now and our starters (including ETDB) have been very inconsistent and quality starts have been hard to come by. Nothing that is too alarming, especially with our offense right now, but it is something to take notice of. Weve been giving the opposition way too many baserunners, and we can't alway rely on our offense to pick up the slack. I'd like to see a starter go at least 8 over the weekend... I think Garland in Cincy was our only 8 inning start this entire month. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoxAce Posted June 29, 2006 Share Posted June 29, 2006 Off topic: That is an awesome avatar. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
watchtower41 Posted June 29, 2006 Author Share Posted June 29, 2006 QUOTE(SoxAce @ Jun 29, 2006 -> 04:54 PM) Off topic: That is an awesome avatar. I think you and I are the only ones that support him on this board....LOl All Bulls fans should be extatic after what Pax pulled on Portland...most Bulls fans are :rolly Good thing Pax knows what he is doing Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BobDylan Posted June 29, 2006 Share Posted June 29, 2006 Juan Uribe and Brian Anderson are no longer concerning. 9 game winning streak or not, the White Sox starting staff has been awful for the past two weeks. Two starters with 5+ ERA's, one starter (the ace) has jumped from 1.83 to 3.54. The Sox are down to two consistantly good starters...last year they had four, and for a period, five. If you don't believe pitching is a problem this season, take a look at 2005, then take a look at Detroit now. It is a concern, and it needs to be addressed. (People called me stupid for asking about Smoltz.) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tealeafreaderii Posted June 29, 2006 Share Posted June 29, 2006 QUOTE(watchtower41 @ Jun 29, 2006 -> 04:53 PM) Besides Burls start on Tuesday, weve been through the rotation twice now and our starters (including ETDB) have been very inconsistent and quality starts have been hard to come by. Nothing that is too alarming, especially with our offense right now, but it is something to take notice of. Weve been giving the opposition way too many baserunners, and we can't alway rely on our offense to pick up the slack. I'd like to see a starter go at least 8 over the weekend... I think Garland in Cincy was our only 8 inning start this entire month. Freddy pitched a gem against st louis. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GoRowand33 Posted June 29, 2006 Share Posted June 29, 2006 I'm a little concerned, but its too early to be worried Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frankensteiner Posted June 29, 2006 Share Posted June 29, 2006 I was planning on starting a similar thread to see what people think of our starters. Honestly, our starters have become our biggest weakness. I'm just looking at what happens in October; last year we have 4 good starters, right now we seem to have 1.5. But I'm curious what people think we should do (not necessarily what they think will happen): Would you leave everything as is, hoping our 3-4-5 guys get out of their funk and Contreras gets back on track? Should we give McCarthy a shot instead of Vazquez or Garland? Would you want Kenny to look for possible upgrades on the trade market? Or would you not even worry about it and let the offense carry us through the season and hopefully the playoffs? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RockRaines Posted June 29, 2006 Share Posted June 29, 2006 QUOTE(watchtower41 @ Jun 29, 2006 -> 04:58 PM) I think you and I are the only ones that support him on this board....LOl All Bulls fans should be extatic after what Pax pulled on Portland...most Bulls fans are :rolly Good thing Pax knows what he is doing Hey, dont generalize, I love the moves. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WCSox Posted June 29, 2006 Share Posted June 29, 2006 QUOTE(tealeafreaderii @ Jun 29, 2006 -> 03:00 PM) Freddy pitched a gem against st louis. Not to mention a quality start against the Pirates on Wednesday. Given that both Freddy and Jon have been pitching well below their career averages thus far, I'm confident that both will have decent second halves. Vazquez will probably end up in the 4.70 ERA range when all is said and done - not great, but not terrible. Buehrle will be consistent and good. Assuming that Count's back holds up, he'll still be #1 material in September. So, no, I'm not really worried. Especially with McCarthy as a backup. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BobDylan Posted June 29, 2006 Share Posted June 29, 2006 QUOTE(WCSox @ Jun 29, 2006 -> 05:16 PM) So, no, I'm not really worried. Especially with McCarthy as a backup. What has McCarthy proved this year? A 4.35 ERA out of the bullpen isn't exactly promising. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoxFan1 Posted June 29, 2006 Share Posted June 29, 2006 QUOTE(watchtower41 @ Jun 29, 2006 -> 04:58 PM) I think you and I are the only ones that support him on this board....LOl All Bulls fans should be extatic after what Pax pulled on Portland...most Bulls fans are :rolly Good thing Pax knows what he is doing FYI, MOST Bulls fans are not happy with the Thomas pick. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elrockinMT Posted June 29, 2006 Share Posted June 29, 2006 QUOTE(BobDylan @ Jun 29, 2006 -> 09:59 PM) Juan Uribe and Brian Anderson are no longer concerning. 9 game winning streak or not, the White Sox starting staff has been awful for the past two weeks. Two starters with 5+ ERA's, one starter (the ace) has jumped from 1.83 to 3.54. The Sox are down to two consistantly good starters...last year they had four, and for a period, five. If you don't believe pitching is a problem this season, take a look at 2005, then take a look at Detroit now. It is a concern, and it needs to be addressed. (People called me stupid for asking about Smoltz.) I think the analysis should be same pitchers except for the El Duque trade for Vazquez and we have the same or better talent potential. The question is why haven't they performed as their past records imndicate they should? Hopefully they get their acts together in the second half. The staff still has the potential to be super. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zygoat Posted June 29, 2006 Share Posted June 29, 2006 we have lacked that all year. When one pitcher gets hot, they all get hot (hence the 9 game win streak), but when one starts to suck, they all follow. It seems like too much team chemistry. All i know is they have to start throwing the ball or kenny is going to get pissed and make a move Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WCSox Posted June 29, 2006 Share Posted June 29, 2006 QUOTE(BobDylan @ Jun 29, 2006 -> 03:29 PM) What has McCarthy proved this year? A 4.35 ERA out of the bullpen isn't exactly promising. What he did as a starter last year is. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigSqwert Posted June 30, 2006 Share Posted June 30, 2006 Wow. I just looked at tomorrow's pitching matchup and realized we have a starter with a 5.76 ERA. Just awful. Is it possible our rotation is highly overrated? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VAfan Posted June 30, 2006 Share Posted June 30, 2006 I would agree that the starting pitching has become a serious concern. Without it, it is very difficult to sustain long winning runs that will be necessary to pass Detroit and gain home field in the playoffs. But how to correct this problem? Therein lies the rub. I wonder if Ozzie shouldn't adjust his pitching philosophy a bit and pull his starters short of 100 pitches if they aren't doing well. Why else have a long man like McCarthy if we're not going to use him for long stints? He could easily pitch the 6th and 7th innings 2-3 times a week if necessary, and the increased load might actually help him improve his sharpness, much as Vizcaino did last year when he was used more. If nothing else, this should help lower team ERA. We won't have Vazquez going back out after giving up 6 runs, only to give up 9. We won't have Contreras come to bat when the Sox are a run down in the 6th only to give up another run in the bottom of the inning (especially since it was the key run of the game). We won't let Garland or Garcia give up 7-8 runs in any outings any more. This would only be an incremental help, but it might give our guys a rest now and then so that they pitch more effectively in their other starts. Until now, Ozzie couldn't really do this because our bullpen was worse than our starters. Now our bullpen (except for Politte) seems to have straightened itself out. There's no harm in using it -- and especially McCarthy -- more. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigSqwert Posted June 30, 2006 Share Posted June 30, 2006 I don't think so VAfan. Ozzie finds it more important to get the starter the win than to put the team in the best position to win. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BobDylan Posted June 30, 2006 Share Posted June 30, 2006 QUOTE(WCSox @ Jun 29, 2006 -> 06:46 PM) What he did as a starter last year is. Garland had a HELL of a season last year too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rowand44 Posted June 30, 2006 Share Posted June 30, 2006 QUOTE(BigSqwert @ Jun 29, 2006 -> 07:04 PM) Wow. I just looked at tomorrow's pitching matchup and realized we have a starter with a 5.76 ERA. Just awful. Is it possible our rotation is highly overrated? As of right now..yes. I doubt it lasts but the weakest part of our team is the starting rotation. That does worry me a little bit. No matter how improved the offense is, if we don't get 2 of Freddy, Jon, Vaz to turn it around we're going to have some issues winning in the playoffs if we get there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TitoMB345 Posted June 30, 2006 Share Posted June 30, 2006 I'm a bit concerned. I think we need to get something figured out. I know Coop can get it done though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chisoxt Posted June 30, 2006 Share Posted June 30, 2006 QUOTE(VAfan @ Jun 30, 2006 -> 12:08 AM) I wonder if Ozzie shouldn't adjust his pitching philosophy a bit and pull his starters short of 100 pitches if they aren't doing well. I am very concerned about the starting pitching. Recall last year when we were struggling, by and large, the pitching held up, for the most part. This year, we are winning as many games, but it's more from our offense, rather than our pitching. Note that what wins in the post season is pitching and defense, not offense. Right now, the current team reminds me more of the 2000 Sox or the 2005 Cardinals. We all know how those stories ended. Maybe the pitchers are a little arm weary. someone earlier suggested a 100 pitch llimit on starters. I wonder, instead, if a six man roration even if it's temporary, may help the starters down the stretch? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZoomSlowik Posted June 30, 2006 Share Posted June 30, 2006 QUOTE(SoxFan1 @ Jun 29, 2006 -> 05:33 PM) FYI, MOST Bulls fans are not happy with the Thomas pick. Just come over to talkbulls.com and hear people like me rant about it. As for the starting pitching, I would consider myself moderately concerned. I have faith that Buehrle and Contreras will be fine, and that Vazquez will not be as bad as he has been this month for the rest of the year. With those last two, their stuff seems to be fine, but their execution, location, and composure hasn't been there recently. That's a bit easier to fix. I'm definitely more concerned about Freddy and Jon. Freddy's stuff just doesn't seem to be there much anymore. I've heard that he's supposedly trying to throw the fastball a little slower to get better control and placement, but that clearly hasn't worked as well. I don't know why you'd futz with something that is working for you like that unless you simply can't throw it that hard anymore. Besides the fastball, he can't seem to control his breaking stuff as well, which hurts. He knows how to pitch and can still be decent, but I don't expect too many more dominant starts. He's still fine for a 3 or 4 pitcher though. Garland's never been impressive with his stuff, so he has to be spot on with his control and have good composure. He's also walking people a little more often this year, and with as few strikeouts as he gets, that's playing with fire. He hasn't shown me anything this year. He seems to be pitching a little better recently, but the numbers just don't show it. If I'm Kenny, I probably trade Freddy or Garland in the off-season and give B-Mac a shot. I'm not sure which to trade yet, that will depend on what kind of package we can get and who appears to be more dependable at the end of the year. I just don't like what I've seen from those guys so far, and I have my doubts that both of them can turn it around. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BobDylan Posted June 30, 2006 Share Posted June 30, 2006 QUOTE(ZoomSlowik @ Jun 29, 2006 -> 10:03 PM) If I'm Kenny, I probably trade Freddy or Garland in the off-season and give B-Mac a shot. I'm not sure which to trade yet, that will depend on what kind of package we can get and who appears to be more dependable at the end of the year. I just don't like what I've seen from those guys so far, and I have my doubts that both of them can turn it around. You would trade Freddy before you'd trade Vazquez? I know Freddy has been a bit subpar this season, but he's a proven winner. 109 wins, 66 losses. He also countered 3 straight losses with three straight wins, one of them a 1-0 shut out against St. Louis. Vazquez has an ERA in the 5's, is a career .500 pitcher and has never been known as a winner nor a consistant pitcher. Not to mention he's making 3 million dollars more than Freddy. I was a big backer of Vazquez from the beginning, but the guy just plain sucks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigSqwert Posted July 8, 2006 Share Posted July 8, 2006 BUMP Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Milkman delivers Posted July 8, 2006 Share Posted July 8, 2006 Hey, Buehrle cut his ER's in half since his last start. Baby steps...baby steps. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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