Inconsistent Starting Pitching

[BigSqwert]

4 of 5 starters with ERAs over 4. Yeah I know I'm typically negative but if that's not a cause for concern you're fooling yourself.

 

And what do you know, the Tigers throwing up goose eggs once again.

[NUKE_CLEVELAND]

Mark had a rough night but he kinda got the raw end of it also. His zone was no bigger than a walnut and he had several little soft bulls*** hits off him as well.

 

 

Just one of those nights I guess.

[Greg The Bull Luzinski]

Mark had a rough night but he kinda got the raw end of it also. His zone was no bigger than a walnut and he had several little soft bulls*** hits off him as well.

Just one of those nights I guess.

 

Buehrle has these streyches where he throws like s*** for a few games. It is just the way Buehrle is. He is not the type to be dominant for a whole season.

[southsideirish71]

The biggest problem for our starters like Mark. Is the inability to finish someone off when they get 0-2. I saw 2 things, either a fat pitch over the middle of the plate that got hit hard, or we rescue them with a bunch of pitches in the dirt and then get even in the count or go full.

 

 

Small strike zone + Widger behind the plate + Marky Mark = fugly

 

 

And a big hell yeah goes out to Bmac who has been trying to sneak his 90 mph straight as an arrow fastball at the chest to good hitters this week. So far 4 of them havent landed. Bmacs mechanics are f***ed. He is leaving everything high, which means only one thing. Bombs away. He needs to keep his fastball down, and he also needs to throw his curve for strikes. So far he has been having a problem throwing his hook for strikes, and his fastball is not quite good enough to blow hitters by.

 

We need to go out and get a reliever, and ship Mr. McCarthy down to the minors so he can start again and get his control, and his pitches back again.

[NUKE_CLEVELAND]

The biggest problem for our starters like Mark. Is the inability to finish someone off when they get 0-2. I saw 2 things, either a fat pitch over the middle of the plate that got hit hard, or we rescue them with a bunch of pitches in the dirt and then get even in the count or go full.

Small strike zone + Widger behind the plate + Marky Mark = fugly

And a big hell yeah goes out to Bmac who has been trying to sneak his 90 mph straight as an arrow fastball at the chest to good hitters this week. So far 4 of them havent landed. Bmacs mechanics are f***ed. He is leaving everything high, which means only one thing. Bombs away. He needs to keep his fastball down, and he also needs to throw his curve for strikes. So far he has been having a problem throwing his hook for strikes, and his fastball is not quite good enough to blow hitters by.

 

We need to go out and get a reliever, and ship Mr. McCarthy down to the minors so he can start again and get his control, and his pitches back again.

 

 

KW already pulled Riske and Thornton out of his ass this season. I dont know how many more magic tricks he's got left up his sleeve.

[greg775]

I would leave the starting pitching as is. On paper it's a World Series

winning staff. It has to be allowed to play out. If it fails then too bad.

That's baseball.

We still could use some relief help obviously.

 

There's no way the starting pitching staff should be changed unless

injury forces one of the regular starters to be shut down.

On paper it's a great staff.

[southsideirish71]

I would leave the starting pitching as is. On paper it's a World Series

winning staff. It has to be allowed to play out. If it fails then too bad.

That's baseball.

We still could use some relief help obviously.

 

There's no way the starting pitching staff should be changed unless

injury forces one of the regular starters to be shut down.

On paper it's a great staff.

 

 

I think one of the members of our starting staff is already injuried. Or does someone have a magical reason that Freddy lost so many miles per hour on his fastball.

 

I lost some mph when I ended my baseball career in junior year of college. Felt a slight twinge, and then couldnt throw hard anymore. My MRI revealed horror in my elbow and shoulder.

[Misplaced_Sox]

I am starting to agree with Flash Tizzle that the Sox need to develop, draft, acquire some young quality arms. I look/glance around the league and a good number of teams have very good young pitching and they have quality arms with pretty electric stuff. Not the soft tosser safe picks with no talent to hang with the top teams that we constantly end up with.

[klaus kinski]

Lots of pitches up

 

As noted earlier-these look like tired arms

[DBAHO]

I am starting to agree with Flash Tizzle that the Sox need to develop, draft, acquire some young quality arms. I look/glance around the league and a good number of teams have very good young pitching and they have quality arms with pretty electric stuff. Not the soft tosser safe picks with no talent to hang with the top teams that we constantly end up with.

You don't think Brandon McCarthy and Neal Cotts are 2 examples of this?

[LosMediasBlancas]

Um, no. Put me down as not concerned.

These threads always come down to the same thing. Is the glass half full or half empty? Are you pessimistic or optimistic? Luckily, they'll play the second half and we'll find out where this team ends up.

[ZoomSlowik]

You would trade Freddy before you'd trade Vazquez? I know Freddy has been a bit subpar this season, but he's a proven winner. 109 wins, 66 losses. He also countered 3 straight losses with three straight wins, one of them a 1-0 shut out against St. Louis. Vazquez has an ERA in the 5's, is a career .500 pitcher and has never been known as a winner nor a consistant pitcher. Not to mention he's making 3 million dollars more than Freddy. I was a big backer of Vazquez from the beginning, but the guy just plain sucks.

 

So was Vazquez at one point. He was a very solid pitcher in Montreal. His record would have been roughly the same as Freddy if he played on a real team. He was 13-12 in a year that he finished with a 3.24 ERA, that's not really a fair comparison. I must have missed the part when Freddy was consistent too, just look at his numbers. He's been just as bad as Vazquez the last couple of years at times, and just as bad this year. The money is also about a push for the future. Vazquez is making 1.5 mil more next year, and Freddy is a FA after that, so who knows.

 

Just watch them pitch. Javy actually has some stuff, Freddy generally doesn't. The latter is better at pitching without it, but you can only do so much. Coop can do something with Vazquez, he can't improve Freddy's velocity.

Edited July 9, 2006 by ZoomSlowik

[SouthsideNorthsideFan]

I think one of the members of our starting staff is already injuried. Or does someone have a magical reason that Freddy lost so many miles per hour on his fastball.

 

I lost some mph when I ended my baseball career in junior year of college. Felt a slight twinge, and then couldnt throw hard anymore. My MRI revealed horror in my elbow and shoulder.

 

elbow and shoulder? damn...

[elrockinMT]

Poor pitch selection with two strikes on the hiter; they give up too many homers; they give up too many hits; too many lead off walks...

 

As was already posted if you don't think that starting pitching with ERA's in the high 4 a game range isn't something to worry about than you have your head in the sand. Even the so called media experts comment on how the Sox management is concerned about the inconsistent starting pitching.

 

The three I am really concerned about is Freddie Garcia and Javier Vazquez and lately Buerhle. Garland has had a number of solid starts lately and Jose is back in the groove.

 

If it wasn't for our offense I feel we could be in a serious problem. But, we usually see a turnaround in the second half of the season and that's what I am countin on.

[nitetrain8601]

You don't think Brandon McCarthy and Neal Cotts are 2 examples of this?

 

Brandon McCarthy still has shown me nothing really. I also don't like how he throws the ball anymore. He was better off with his mechanics he used last year. That over the top stuff looks like crap to me. And he also doesn't throw hard. Cotts came from Oakland. He has some power and I think that's a reason why he's suceeded. Guys who "know how to pitch" and don't have the power stuff usually are the guys who heavily depend on their defense. Over the course of their careers, they usually are inferior to the power guys. Think about it. The only top 5 pitcher ever that wasn't a power pitcher is Greg Maddux and you see how much he's struggled in the playoffs.

 

I've been saying it for awhile. You need guys who have power. Guys who don't have it usually have no room for error, or else they get rocked. Case in point Mark Buehrle.

 

BTW, Get rid of Widger and trade for Blanco. At least he can call a game, won't care if he's a backup and can play some defense.

[Rowand44]

Over the course of their careers, they usually are inferior to the power guys. Think about it. The only top 5 pitcher ever that wasn't a power pitcher is Greg Maddux and you see how much he's struggled in the playoffs.

That 3.22 era in the playoffs, awful I tell ya.

[SoxAce]

Brandon McCarthy still has shown me nothing really. I also don't like how he throws the ball anymore. He was better off with his mechanics he used last year. That over the top stuff looks like crap to me. And he also doesn't throw hard. Cotts came from Oakland. He has some power and I think that's a reason why he's suceeded. Guys who "know how to pitch" and don't have the power stuff usually are the guys who heavily depend on their defense. Over the course of their careers, they usually are inferior to the power guys. Think about it. The only top 5 pitcher ever that wasn't a power pitcher is Greg Maddux and you see how much he's struggled in the playoffs.

 

I've been saying it for awhile. You need guys who have power. Guys who don't have it usually have no room for error, or else they get rocked. Case in point Mark Buehrle.

 

BTW, Get rid of Widger and trade for Blanco. At least he can call a game, won't care if he's a backup and can play some defense.

 

 

I love it. What a comedian. The next Dave Chappelle.

 

Oh and by the way, the bottom part of your post is right and I agree with.

[Felix]

Brandon McCarthy still has shown me nothing really. I also don't like how he throws the ball anymore. He was better off with his mechanics he used last year. That over the top stuff looks like crap to me. And he also doesn't throw hard. Cotts came from Oakland. He has some power and I think that's a reason why he's suceeded. Guys who "know how to pitch" and don't have the power stuff usually are the guys who heavily depend on their defense. Over the course of their careers, they usually are inferior to the power guys. Think about it. The only top 5 pitcher ever that wasn't a power pitcher is Greg Maddux and you see how much he's struggled in the playoffs.

 

I've been saying it for awhile. You need guys who have power. Guys who don't have it usually have no room for error, or else they get rocked. Case in point Mark Buehrle.

I'm saving this post and bringing it back up when BMac dominates. Hopefully, you'll be ready to eat some serious crow.

[Jordan4life_2007]

That 3.22 era in the playoffs, awful I tell ya.

 

That can't be right. Maddux gets his lunch handed to him in the postseason.

 

Edit: I guess you're right. How come all I remember is Maddux getting rocked in the playoffs?

Edited July 9, 2006 by Jordan4life_2006

[nitetrain8601]

I'm saving this post and bringing it back up when BMac dominates. Hopefully, you'll be ready to eat some serious crow.

 

And if he never does?

[Felix]

And if he never does?

You can bring it up and make me eat some crow, I'll be more than willing to.

[Rowand44]

Brandon McCarthy still has shown me nothing really.

I'd also like to ask about this. We throw a rookie pitcher into the middle of a pennant race last year when our lead was sinking fast, Brandon absolutely dominates, and he's shown you nothing?? This I don't understand.

[southsideirish71]

I'd also like to ask about this. We throw a rookie pitcher into the middle of a pennant race last year when our lead was sinking fast, Brandon absolutely dominates, and he's shown you nothing?? This I don't understand.

 

 

Brandons mechanics are in flux this year, probably due to the new job role and just to the usual inconsistancies from year to year.

 

 

When bmac was pitching last year. His fastball was located very well, his curve was thrown for strikes and his changeup was throwing low. This year his fastball is riding high, he is more over the top this year and you have a propensity of leaving that pitch up if you dont following through on an over the top delivery. He is having hard times throwing his curve and his change for strikes. If bmac can get his control back, and to keep his ball down he will be fine.

[Whitewashed in '05]

Brandons mechanics are in flux this year, probably due to the new job role and just to the usual inconsistancies from year to year.

When bmac was pitching last year. His fastball was located very well, his curve was thrown for strikes and his changeup was throwing low. This year his fastball is riding high, he is more over the top this year and you have a propensity of leaving that pitch up if you dont following through on an over the top delivery. He is having hard times throwing his curve and his change for strikes. If bmac can get his control back, and to keep his ball down he will be fine.

Yep I agree. Just because he is struggling this year does not mean that "he sucks" so to say. We know he can do the job, but the bullpen adjustment has not been easy. I have complete faith in Bmac to straighten out next season when he gets put in his correct position.

 

Just to show how true what you said is just look at his last few outings. He left the FB up a few times each outing and they have been hammered.

[Flash Tizzle]

You don't think Brandon McCarthy and Neal Cotts are 2 examples of this?

Yes, they're good examples of what our system has accomplished.

 

Now, do it again.

 

Don't give the ballclub only one or two contributing arm every 5 years. With our increasing payroll there should be more than enough to devote to minor league development.