Jordan4life_2007 Posted July 1, 2006 Share Posted July 1, 2006 QUOTE(Rowand44 @ Jul 1, 2006 -> 04:04 PM) Bmac has been pretty damn good as of late in the pen, he's definitely settled in. I do love your idea though, it's actually something the 5 of us talked about in Cinci a lot(trading one of our starters for a top notch reliever and getting Mac into the rotation). Wouldn't that be kinda bogus to throw B-mac into the rotation mid-season when he's just now settling into his role in the 'pen? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rowand44 Posted July 1, 2006 Share Posted July 1, 2006 QUOTE(Jordan4life_2006 @ Jul 1, 2006 -> 04:06 PM) Wouldn't that be kinda bogus to throw B-mac into the rotation mid-season when he's just now settling into his role in the 'pen? Well that's one of the reasons it'd be hard to pull the trigger on something like that. However, if you could get an obvious upgrade in the bullpen like a Scot Shields then you can take your chances with Mac in the rotation cause at this point I really do believe he'd be our 3rd best starter(I've always been real high on Mac). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
valponick Posted July 1, 2006 Author Share Posted July 1, 2006 QUOTE(Jordan4life_2006 @ Jul 1, 2006 -> 09:06 PM) Wouldn't that be kinda bogus to throw B-mac into the rotation mid-season when he's just now settling into his role in the 'pen? I say no. Only because his future is in the rotation, I think getting him in there while he is throwing the ball well is a good idea. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rowand44 Posted July 1, 2006 Share Posted July 1, 2006 I'd also like to add that I'm very much against moving Vaz to the pen. Vaz is a mental midget and most likely he'd take the demotion very hard and just get rocked in the bullpen. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SadChiSoxFanOptimist Posted July 1, 2006 Share Posted July 1, 2006 (edited) I had the same thought as other posters: Aside from his early season success, Vasquez is not pitching well enough to hold a starting positon on a World Series team. He has the talent, but has not developed the capablity to keep a team in a game. What is it -- lack of mental toughness? Is he afraid of hitting someone? He seems to be aiming pitches, mostly outside corner and low. Is he afraid to throw high and tight? He looks afraid to me. For $10 mil/year, he's not getting the job done and, I agree, should be demoted to the pen to develop BMac's capabilities as a starter. Put him in the pen and make him re-learn how to pitch in critical situations. From my perspective, he's a blocker -- BMac has more upside and could help us improve the overall consistency of our starters. Edited July 1, 2006 by SadChiSoxFanOptimist Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Whitewashed in '05 Posted July 1, 2006 Share Posted July 1, 2006 Javy isn't going to be traded anytime soon. Although I am getting REALLY tired of his bulls***. I am hoping he turns it around in the 2nd half like Contreras last season. We need him, just like we need everyone else to get straghtened out fast not named Buehrle. Yes Contreras too, he has been bad lately. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rowand44 Posted July 1, 2006 Share Posted July 1, 2006 QUOTE(SadChiSoxFanOptimist @ Jul 1, 2006 -> 04:14 PM) He has the talent, but has not developed the capablity to keep a team in a game. What is it -- lack of mental toughness? Is he afraid of hitting someone? I believe he leads the league in hit batters or he's at least up there. He is mentally fragile though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Milkman delivers Posted July 1, 2006 Share Posted July 1, 2006 Enough of the Contreras comparisons. Jose Contreras pitched for years in Cuba and was regarded as their greatest pitcher. The only time Vazquez has had any measure of success, it was on a crappy team that had no pressure and was also in the NL. Contreras also pitched well almost all of last year (starting the season out very well, but getting screwed by the offense or bullpen a lot). I don't think Jose had an ERA near 5 at any point last year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beautox Posted July 1, 2006 Share Posted July 1, 2006 QUOTE(Jordan4life_2006 @ Jul 1, 2006 -> 03:38 PM) He has? We could've kept Duque if a 5.20 era is fine for a 5th starter. It sure would be a lot cheaper, and we could've kept Chris Young. don't forget luis, and i know alot of people on this board think he sucks, but IMHO he doesn't. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WCSox Posted July 1, 2006 Share Posted July 1, 2006 QUOTE(Rowand44 @ Jul 1, 2006 -> 02:17 PM) He is mentally fragile though. Somebody here mentioned that Vazquez told Ozzie that he was hesitant to come back to the AL. That's not the type of mentality you want from your players. I'd rather have a battler like Freddy with 4 mph off of his fastball than somebody with Vazquez's stuff and a fragile mentality. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Whitewashed in '05 Posted July 1, 2006 Share Posted July 1, 2006 QUOTE(Milkman delivers @ Jul 1, 2006 -> 04:20 PM) Enough of the Contreras comparisons. Jose Contreras pitched for years in Cuba and was regarded as their greatest pitcher. The only time Vazquez has had any measure of success, it was on a crappy team that had no pressure and was also in the NL. Contreras also pitched well almost all of last year (starting the season out very well, but getting screwed by the offense or bullpen a lot). I don't think Jose had an ERA near 5 at any point last year. I am not saying Vazquez will be able to turn it around and pitch as good as Contreras I am just saying that hopefully he can stop pitching like s*** and barely getting to the 6th inning like Contreras last year. Before the ASB didn't Contreras only get to the 8th like twice? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tealeafreaderii Posted July 1, 2006 Share Posted July 1, 2006 (edited) in 2004 he (contreras) did and last year at the end of July he had an era of 4.58 It is way to soon to give up on this guy... there are lot of people in New York wishing they didn't give up on Contreras when they did. Edited July 1, 2006 by tealeafreaderii Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RockRaines Posted July 1, 2006 Share Posted July 1, 2006 Javy only letting up 5 runs with the wind the way it was today was a damn good performance IMO. Plus the ideas of trading Javy for a reliever? Hahaha, you have goto to be joking. Relievers are one of the most inconsistent players in baseball. Trading a 5th starter who has been ok, and still has a chance to be great is a ridiculously retarded idea. QUOTE(tealeafreaderii @ Jul 1, 2006 -> 04:40 PM) in 2004 he (contreras) did and last year at the end of July he had an era of 4.58 It is way to soon to give up on this guy... there are lot of people in New York wishing they didn't give up on Contreras when they did. ^^^^^^^^^^^ Javy pitched a good game today, i cant believe the reactions of some of the people on here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CWSGuy406 Posted July 1, 2006 Share Posted July 1, 2006 QUOTE(RockRaines @ Jul 1, 2006 -> 09:56 PM) Javy pitched a good game today, i cant believe the reactions of some of the people on here. Yeah, that damned wind caused Javy to hang breaking balls to Aramis Ramirez -- TWICE. Maybe we can put a retractable roof over US Cellular to help Javy out a bit, poor guy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RockRaines Posted July 1, 2006 Share Posted July 1, 2006 QUOTE(Tony82087 @ Jul 1, 2006 -> 05:14 PM) No Rock, he didnt. Vaz was playing with fire all day today, and was lucky he didnt get burned more than he did. He hasn't been sharp the last 5+ games, and needs to step it, and fast. I believe it was said during the broadcast that Vaz has received the best run support of any pitcher in the MLB. It ain't going to last forever. Are you kidding? What fire was he playing with? The wind was blowing out, ARAM made two miracle swings for 2 runs, and the 3 run bomb was legit. I think keeping us in that game was a pretty decent outing. Javy is not one pitcher im worried about at all. Oh and he was nice at the plate today as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rowand44 Posted July 1, 2006 Share Posted July 1, 2006 Rock, the wind was pretty crazy going out to right today but nothing Vaz allowed had to do with the wind. Javy pitched horrible again, he really does need to get his ass in gear like most of our starting pitchers. I still have a ton of confidence in this staff because besides Mark everyone is better then they are pitching right now but eventually the offense is going to slow down a bit and we need our starters to step it up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jackie hayes Posted July 1, 2006 Share Posted July 1, 2006 Fwiw, over his career, Javy's era is exactly a full run worse in June than his overall average. So we can hope that this skid will end soon. We knew going in that he could be streaky. Given that, it seems a bit early to bail, after one awful month. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Milkman delivers Posted July 1, 2006 Share Posted July 1, 2006 There's no other way to it. Vazquez sucked, as he has this entire year. He deserves no defense. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rowand44 Posted July 1, 2006 Share Posted July 1, 2006 QUOTE(jackie hayes @ Jul 1, 2006 -> 05:29 PM) Fwiw, over his career, Javy's era is exactly a full run worse in June than his overall average. So we can hope that this skid will end soon. We knew going in that he could be streaky. Given that, it seems a bit early to bail, after one awful month. I hope no one has completely bailed on him yet but he is pretty frusterating to watch right now and he just needs to get his ass in gear. Unless we can make a trade like talked about in this thread he'll get his chance to work himself out of this and hopefully he does. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Milkman delivers Posted July 1, 2006 Share Posted July 1, 2006 Didn't Vazquez pitch great his first half with the Yankees (like 2.something ERA), and then pitched so badly in the second half that his ERA was almost 5 for the year? I'm afraid we're going to get that terrible second half again without the great first half to counter it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CWSGuy406 Posted July 1, 2006 Share Posted July 1, 2006 QUOTE(Milkman delivers @ Jul 1, 2006 -> 10:32 PM) Didn't Vazquez pitch great his first half with the Yankees (like 2.something ERA), and then pitched so badly in the second half that his ERA was almost 5 for the year? I'm afraid we're going to get that terrible second half again without the great first half to counter it. Ehh -- over his career, his post all-star break ERA is almost a half a run lower than his pre all-star break ERA (4.51 to 4.09). I wouldn't put too much stock into the year in New York. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Milkman delivers Posted July 1, 2006 Share Posted July 1, 2006 QUOTE(CWSGuy406 @ Jul 1, 2006 -> 05:39 PM) Ehh -- over his career, his post all-star break ERA is almost a half a run lower than his pre all-star break ERA (4.51 to 4.09). I wouldn't put too much stock into the year in New York. I'm going by the fact that he has to face AL hitting. He was great for a while with NY, then teams saw him a few times and bombed him. I see Vazquez as a guy who has had years to correct his approach at pitching, to keep his head in the game and not let things blow up because one thing went wrong. He hasn't been able to change that, and that's why he's a thrower and not a pitcher. He didn't even want to come back to the AL, according to Ozzie, which shows me he's probably scared of getting lit up by far superior offenses. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheBigHurt Posted July 1, 2006 Share Posted July 1, 2006 This place never changes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Milkman delivers Posted July 1, 2006 Share Posted July 1, 2006 QUOTE(TheBigHurt @ Jul 1, 2006 -> 05:47 PM) This place never changes. Yeah, I know. Some posters still wonder why other posters have legitimate concerns about the team. You'd think that most would see that, halfway through the season, there are some definite problems. It must be a fluke to have an ERA over 5 at the halfway point. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drowninginflame Posted July 1, 2006 Share Posted July 1, 2006 Vaquez is a pretty inconsistent dude. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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