TheBigHurt Posted July 1, 2006 Share Posted July 1, 2006 QUOTE(Milkman delivers @ Jul 1, 2006 -> 05:49 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Yeah, I know. Some posters still wonder why other posters have legitimate concerns about the team. You'd think that most would see that, halfway through the season, there are some definite problems. It must be a fluke to have an ERA over 5 at the halfway point. He's had quality starts, and he's picked up wins that he shouldn't have perhaps, same as many others. Buehrle has had onconsistent starts, should we trade him? Christ, everyone has bad starts and stretches. Let's not forget that we won this game. As far as I'm concerned, anybody here who is still obsessed with trading Garland is being utterly ridiculous. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Milkman delivers Posted July 1, 2006 Share Posted July 1, 2006 QUOTE(TheBigHurt @ Jul 1, 2006 -> 05:55 PM) He's had quality starts, and he's picked up wins that he shouldn't have perhaps, same as many others. Buehrle has had onconsistent starts, should we trade him? Christ, everyone has bad starts and stretches. Let's not forget that we won this game. As far as I'm concerned, anybody here who is still obsessed with trading Garland is being utterly ridiculous. He's had quality starts Against the Royals, yeah. he's picked up wins that he shouldn't have perhaps No s***? Buehrle has had onconsistent starts I forgot Buehrle had an ERA OVER 5! Let's not forget that we won this game I'm very grateful for that, but it had very little to do with Vazquez. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheBigHurt Posted July 1, 2006 Share Posted July 1, 2006 So you think we should get rid of Buehrle as well, is that it? Hey, Jon Garland wouldn've never had a monster season like he ahd last year if we'd have shipped him off after ONE bad YEAR, much less a handful of games. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Milkman delivers Posted July 1, 2006 Share Posted July 1, 2006 QUOTE(TheBigHurt @ Jul 1, 2006 -> 06:07 PM) So you think we should get rid of Buehrle as well, is that it? Hey, Jon Garland wouldn've never had a monster season like he ahd last year if we'd have shipped him off after ONE bad YEAR, much less a handful of games. Haha, what the f***? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Allen Posted July 1, 2006 Share Posted July 1, 2006 (edited) QUOTE(TheBigHurt @ Jul 1, 2006 -> 06:07 PM) So you think we should get rid of Buehrle as well, is that it? Hey, Jon Garland wouldn've never had a monster season like he ahd last year if we'd have shipped him off after ONE bad YEAR, much less a handful of games. Actually our GM had Garland traded to the Angels several years ago for Erstad until Angels ownership blocked it. As far as Vazquez, I'm sure KW and Ozzie expected a lot more than they are getting. This outing aside, I agree that today wasn't that bad considering the wind was howling out, Vazquez has not been good. Not as bad as some recent #5 White Sox starters, but certainly not worth his paycheck. Not even close. Edited July 1, 2006 by Dick Allen Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zygoat Posted July 1, 2006 Share Posted July 1, 2006 keep bmac in the pen, no need to use him javy is like 4 in strikeouts since 2000 and he pitchs fine when we are not winning he's going to get back on track Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G&T Posted July 1, 2006 Share Posted July 1, 2006 If BMAC is going to enter the rotation in place of JV then JV has to be traded because you can't have JV come in during pressure situations since that's when he tends to fold. BMAC would have to then get used to being a starter again after he just got comfortable, it would appear, as a set-up man. The best thing that can happen is for JV to start pitching better. Unfortunately he hasn't shown that anything has changed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SleepyWhiteSox Posted July 2, 2006 Share Posted July 2, 2006 QUOTE(The Critic @ Jul 1, 2006 -> 02:17 PM) And then when McCarthy struggles, it'll be time for someone else, maybe a trade. And then if the guy the Sox trade for struggles, it'll be "what a horrible trade that was" and we'll all splooge all over the guy they traded away. It gets old. You'd never guess this team was 52-27. ^^^ The b****ing on here would be endless... There's just no guarantee that he's be awesome his first full season, and I'm now even more weary of giving him that opportunity both because of the high stakes this season and because our other rookie is struggling way, way, way, way more at the plate than anybody predicted... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WCSox Posted July 2, 2006 Share Posted July 2, 2006 QUOTE(SleepyWhiteSox @ Jul 1, 2006 -> 05:26 PM) There's just no guarantee that he's be awesome his first full season I find it funny that some here are convinced that B-Mac is going to be a lock for a 4.00 ERA and a 1.25 WHIP right off the bat. Despite what he did in limited in a limited number of starts last season (even Kip Wells looked really good in his 7 starts back in '99), McCarthy is inevitably going to experience some growing pains as he develops. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
soxhawks Posted July 2, 2006 Share Posted July 2, 2006 I'll take Vazquez as my fifth starter any day of the week, and when it comes down to it McCarthy is not an upgrade at all and a wash at best. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rowand44 Posted July 2, 2006 Share Posted July 2, 2006 QUOTE(soxhawks @ Jul 1, 2006 -> 07:50 PM) I'll take Vazquez as my fifth starter any day of the week, and when it comes down to it McCarthy is not an upgrade at all and a wash at best. Just out of curiousity, how would you know this? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beck72 Posted July 2, 2006 Share Posted July 2, 2006 A few things: *Vazquez was brought in here as the 5th starter. A damn expensive 5th SP but a 5th starter nonetheless. He's performed like a 5th SP though he's getting paid like a #1 or a #2. He has some nasty stuff. Yet he's been hurt by not making the big pitch when he's needed to. Hopefully he can correct this before too long. It seems now it's all mental with Javy. Get him to a shrink quick *He was [and still is] insurance in case someone got hurt from the extra innings thrown in 2005. No one's been hurt [except for Jose]. Someone goes down and the 5th SP / bullpen loss of Bmac complaining would never end. *He's not going anywhere this yr and Bmac isn't going to the rotation. Something may be done in the offseason. Vazquez will have value. Look at the teams foaming at the mouth over AJ burnett. They may not get a Chris Young back. But if his trade helped the pitching staff get back to the playoffs, it'd have been worth it. *Contreras needed a yr to turn his career around. Vazquez may need similar time. If he hasn't corrected his problems by then, he won't have that yr with the sox to turn it around. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
South Side Fireworks Man Posted July 2, 2006 Share Posted July 2, 2006 QUOTE(valponick @ Jul 1, 2006 -> 01:56 PM) Vazquez to the pen. Amen. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aboz56 Posted July 2, 2006 Share Posted July 2, 2006 Until Vaz gets the stones and pitches rather than just grooving meatballs down the heart of the plate, he's gonna be the same guy. There is a reason why teams gave up on the guy. He has grade A stuff with no mental makeup to go along with it. Hopefully he can be serviceable the rest of the way before we dump him as soon as possible after the year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
South Side Fireworks Man Posted July 2, 2006 Share Posted July 2, 2006 QUOTE(aboz56 @ Jul 1, 2006 -> 09:57 PM) Until Vaz gets the stones and pitches rather than just grooving meatballs down the heart of the plate, he's gonna be the same guy. There is a reason why teams gave up on the guy. He has grade A stuff with no mental makeup to go along with it. Exactly. Hopefully he can be serviceable the rest of the way before we dump him as soon as possible after the year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsideirish71 Posted July 2, 2006 Share Posted July 2, 2006 Vazquez needs to start throwing his slider on 2 strikes to right handers. He keeps making the same mistake on 2 strikes, he either throws a curve that hangs, or he throws a two seamer that comes back over the middle of the plate. Everytime I see him throw a 2 strike slider to a lefty the guy goes down. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RockRaines Posted July 2, 2006 Share Posted July 2, 2006 QUOTE(Milkman delivers @ Jul 1, 2006 -> 05:49 PM) Yeah, I know. Some posters still wonder why other posters have legitimate concerns about the team. You'd think that most would see that, halfway through the season, there are some definite problems. It must be a fluke to have an ERA over 5 at the halfway point. Yeah, totally, I mean, we arent even in contention. Our pitching is horrible, our defense is horrible, and our hitting wont come around. What ever can we do? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoxAce Posted July 2, 2006 Share Posted July 2, 2006 Ugh... :puke At threads sometimes.. :headshake Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CWSGuy406 Posted July 2, 2006 Share Posted July 2, 2006 QUOTE(RockRaines @ Jul 2, 2006 -> 05:26 AM) Yeah, totally, I mean, we arent even in contention. Our pitching is horrible, our defense is horrible, and our hitting wont come around. What ever can we do? ... Still waiting for you to explain how Vazquez pitched "good" today... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DBAHO Posted July 2, 2006 Share Posted July 2, 2006 QUOTE(beck72 @ Jul 2, 2006 -> 11:10 AM) *Contreras needed a yr to turn his career around. Vazquez may need similar time. If he hasn't corrected his problems by then, he won't have that yr with the sox to turn it around. This is the big thing right here. Can the Sox afford to be patient with Javy, because if they can, I think we will see similar results with what Jose has done for the past 12 months. It will depend if KW can move Freddy or Jon for the right offer. Coop just needs to re-inforce to Javy how important it is not to make the big mistakes that are really costing him the big innings right now, because he definitely has the stuff to succeed, we all saw that at the start of the season. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Allen Posted July 2, 2006 Share Posted July 2, 2006 (edited) QUOTE(beck72 @ Jul 1, 2006 -> 08:10 PM) A few things: *Vazquez was brought in here as the 5th starter. A damn expensive 5th SP but a 5th starter nonetheless. He's performed like a 5th SP though he's getting paid like a #1 or a #2. He has some nasty stuff. Yet he's been hurt by not making the big pitch when he's needed to. Hopefully he can correct this before too long. It seems now it's all mental with Javy. Get him to a shrink quick He may have been brought in here as the fifth starter, but picking up his contract and giving up Young clearly indicates the White Sox didn't expect him to pitch like one. I know the DBacks threw in a little money, not much, and getting rid of Duque's contract and Vizcaino's made it nearly a wash financially this season, but next year his money, if he continues to pitch like this could have been much better spent. Instead of having to face Boston or the Yankees, this guy has been fortunate to get 3 starts against KC, a team when he pitched against him that was on pace to be the worst team in history. Without those starts, his ERA is over 6.00. I read somewhere that he has had 1 quality start in his last 6. $12 million should get you more than that. Thinking that he'll pull a "Contreras" and suddenly become dominant is a pipe-dream. Contreras started throwing strikes, and went back to a style he used his entire career before joining the Yankees. Vazquez doesn't have these chips to fall back on. He is frustrating because he has so much talent. But he's been pretty mediocre his entire career except for a couple of seasons of pitching when nobody was paying attention in Montreal. Edited July 2, 2006 by Dick Allen Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ltravisjr Posted July 2, 2006 Share Posted July 2, 2006 I agree that you gotta stick with Javy for all the reasons mentioned, but I have one simple, honest question: Will BMac ever be a starter? SFF Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Felix Posted July 2, 2006 Share Posted July 2, 2006 QUOTE(ltravisjr @ Jul 2, 2006 -> 10:59 AM) I agree that you gotta stick with Javy for all the reasons mentioned, but I have one simple, honest question: Will BMac ever be a starter? SFF Yes, next year. I believe KW said it before the year started that BMac will be in the rotation in 2007, one way or another. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GreatScott82 Posted July 2, 2006 Share Posted July 2, 2006 I would give Javier one or two more starts before we all start thinking about plugging BMac into the rotation. Javier has nasty stuff, he just needs to know when to use it. When he gets the batters behind, he tries to blow them away with his fast ball, and thats when he gets pounded. He needs to rely on his slider more (his nastiest pitch). I guess he is showing latley why he is our 5th starter, however i truly believe the 'real' Javy will show up soon. Do you guys remember how bad you wanted Contreras gone last season around this time? or do you guys remember how you wanted Freddy traded early on this season? Freddy is on his game now and Jose is awesome. Javy and Coop will figure it out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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