And That's A White Sox Loser

[Flash Tizzle]

Seen a similar thread posted before without anyone complaining. We should always have a thread available to discuss a game -- win or lose.

 

Before the series began, I thought -- as I do with most series -- that winning 2/3 would be suffucient. Even with two victories, one in dramatic fashion, it's hard to overlook today's game. Gullien's managing, Buehlre bed wetting, and Politte's typical performance all were hard to ignore.

 

What made it especially difficult is we destroyed perhaps one of the best pitchers in the national league. Even Vazquez should have been able to hold such a lead. It's discouraing watching Buehrle pitch like this against the Cubs of all teams. This better be one of those "one bad start a year" occasions.

[bmags]

was guillen not watching the game today? In a race thats gonna be this close we can't be giving away games with decisions this poor

[Flash Tizzle]

was guillen not watching the game today? In a race thats gonna be this close we can't be giving away games with decisions this poor

Someone in the gameday thread brought up a good comparison with Logan. Guillen continued to pitch him in tight situations to determine his effectiveness. When he failed, he was demoted. It didn't take two months to make a decision. If Politte were on the Cubs it would take Baker half a season to have the balls to remove him from the bullpen.

 

You have to believe Guillen conceeded (in some small way) the game to have a good look at Politte. If losing today means not losing several more games in the future because of him, it's probably a win in Guillen's mind.

[Frankensteiner]

This better be one of those "one bad start a year" occasions.

 

It's more like one of those "one bad start out of the 5 bad starts a year" occasions.

[elrockinMT]

Buerhle has not looked real solid all year long. But for that matter no of the Sox pitcher have been consistent. 11 runs-7 in one inning- allowed by Buerhle yet Ozzie leaves him in when we had a long reliever in McCarthy who could go 3 or 4 innings easy. I have a hard time agreeing with some of the pitching moves Ozzie makes. I understand all the hype on going 6 or 7 and supporting his pitchers, but when you ain't got it for the day then you ain't got it for crying out loud. We have an offense that keeps pounding away and just like when we were down the other day 9-1 and came back to tie it you would think maybe we need to take a pitcher out and give the offense some support. It's not like Buerhle hasn't been hammered hard before though. I seem to remember a game in Oakland a couple years ago where the A's beat Mark and the Sox 19-0. But, tomorrow's a new day and a new game and we have one heckuva a team. I can't wait to get back to the AL games and face the Tigers. I think we can sweep the kittie kats.

[Frankensteiner]

Next time Hawk and DJ are "interactive" someone should email Hawk and ask about...

 

"DJ, this is the best 5 man rotation I've ever seen."

[bmags]

i really am worried about our staff...especially if contreras keeps having trouble finding his arm angles.

 

Come playoff time, i'm not willing to count on offense in the playoffs.

[jenksd]

Buerhle has not looked real solid all year long. But for that matter no of the Sox pitcher have been consistent. 11 runs-7 in one inning- allowed by Buerhle yet Ozzie leaves him in when we had a long reliever in McCarthy who could go 3 or 4 innings easy. I have a hard time agreeing with some of the pitching moves Ozzie makes. I understand all the hype on going 6 or 7 and supporting his pitchers, but when you ain't got it for the day then you ain't got it for crying out loud. We have an offense that keeps pounding away and just like when we were down the other day 9-1 and came back to tie it you would think maybe we need to take a pitcher out and give the offense some support. It's not like Buerhle hasn't been hammered hard before though. I seem to remember a game in Oakland a couple years ago where the A's beat Mark and the Sox 19-0. But, tomorrow's a new day and a new game and we have one heckuva a team. I can't wait to get back to the AL games and face the Tigers. I think we can sweep the kittie kats.

 

But how are we going to beat the best team in baseball when our first starter isn't even solid and our manager has no idea what he's doing?

[beautox]

Someone in the gameday thread brought up a good comparison with Logan. Guillen continued to pitch him in tight situations to determine his effectiveness. When he failed, he was demoted. It didn't take two months to make a decision. If Politte were on the Cubs it would take Baker half a season to have the balls to remove him from the bullpen.

 

You have to believe Guillen conceeded (in some small way) the game to have a good look at Politte. If losing today means not losing several more games in the future because of him, it's probably a win in Guillen's mind.

 

that was I, and I stand behind it, if your on Ozzies team your going to be tested he needs to know 100% with out a doubt what he has and what he needs to get(borowski? hawkins?). We just need someone who can pitch effectivly in blow outs one way or another and eat some innings, someone with an ERA south of 4.50.

 

There were alot of things good and bad to take away from this series.

 

The Good

 

- This offense never dies, never, nothing is out of reach for them.

 

- The bullpen is solid san Politte

 

- Jon Garland maybe?? finally learned to be effective hes going to have to pitch inside with his 2 seam to be able to get away with mistakes over the plate.

 

- Our bench is deep, real DEEP.

 

The Bad

 

- this starting pitching needs to get its collective head out of its ass, i expect a much better second half after the ASG

 

i really am worried about our staff...especially if contreras keeps having trouble finding his arm angles.

 

Come playoff time, i'm not willing to count on offense in the playoffs.

 

i am, our pitching isn't Twins dominate but it isn't horrid, it just appears that way since we were spoiled last year.

 

The sox have the best O hands down in the bigs, and we've had it even with auto outs (at times) in our 8 - 9 - 1 spots. I realize pitching and defense win, and we've got both along with a killer O, who in the post season are we going to face whom is better than the sox? Boston? i think not. Detroit? they have a propensity of s***ting the bed when facing us. Oakland? Texas? ha!, and who in the NL is going to compete with the AL? no one i expect another WS sweep for who ever is the AL representative.

[BigSqwert]

If Politte were on the Cubs it would take Baker half a season to have the balls to remove him from the bullpen.

Correct me if I am wrong but today is the official halfway point in our season and Ozzie is still trying to see what Cliff has to offer. He came into the game with a 7.48 ERA. I thought it was obvious over a month ago that he had nothing to offer. He has yet to have a good outing this year from what I can recall. It all started on opening day when he had trouble getting outs.

Edited July 2, 2006 by BigSqwert

[Flash Tizzle]

Correct me if I am wrong but today is the official halfway point in our season and Ozzie is still trying to see what Cliff has to offer. He came into the game with a 7.48 ERA. I thought it was obvious over a month ago that he had nothing to offer. He has yet to have a good outing this year from what I can recall. It all started on opening day when he had trouble getting outs.

You're right. It didn't occur to me half a season has gone by. Bad example comparing Guillen and Baker on this issue.

[GoRowand33]

well politte was hurt a lot, so maybe ozzie is checking if his injury had anything to do with his effectiveness

 

to me the difference between a good politte (2005) and a bad polittie (04 and 06) is his confidence level. he just seems to have lost it

 

either way, I'm not mad about the loss because it's only july 2nd, and there was an article in the paper about contreras working on his arm angles (so I know coop is working with pitchers to regain consistency)

[Greg Hibbard]

why is it that our offense "destroyed" one of the best pitchers in the NL, but Buehrle "wet the bed"

 

is it ok to have one set of standards for our pitcher and our offense and another for the opponents? Honestly, I don't get it.

[BigSqwert]

why is it that our offense "destroyed" one of the best pitchers in the NL, but Buehrle "wet the bed"

 

is it ok to have one set of standards for our pitcher and our offense and another for the opponents? Honestly, I don't get it.

Are you a priest? Have you ever found a single thing to criticize about this team?

[Flash Tizzle]

why is it that our offense "destroyed" one of the best pitchers in the NL, but Buehrle "wet the bed"

 

is it ok to have one set of standards for our pitcher and our offense and another for the opponents? Honestly, I don't get it.

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/stats/aggreg...batting&group=9

 

Now, can you tell me which team is atop the list and which is at the bottom? Sox offense couldn't statistically be any better than the Cubs overall. I expect the Sox to score runs. However, I don't expect Buehrle -- our ace, supposedly -- (second "ace reference, Jackie ) to give up 10 f***ing runs. Something about him and 7 run first innings which is beginning to wear on me.

 

Don't even suggest Derrek Lee is the difference of runs scored by the Cubs this afternoon. You just have to admit Buehlre embarrassed himself. I'm sure as hell not giving the Cubs any credit.

Edited July 3, 2006 by Flash Tizzle

[Rowand44]

We weren't going to sweep the Cubs. As much as this one stings because of some odd things that took place, I'm satisfied with 2 of 3 because this series worried me a lot coming in.

[Flash Tizzle]

We weren't going to sweep the Cubs. As much as this one stings because of some odd things that took place, I'm satisfied with 2 of 3 because this series worried me a lot coming in.

Why weren't we going to sweep the Cubs? You act as if were impossible thing to occur.

 

I don't believe having one of our most reliable pitchers win against a club he dominated last month was too much to expect. And not even a quality start. He gives up 5 runs we win easily. BUT 10 RUNS?! That's pathetic.

[Greg Hibbard]

Are you a priest? Have you ever found a single thing to criticize about this team?

 

I have plenty of criticisms of this team, but I think it's very early in the season to be even talking about the postseason, much less drastic changes to the roster because kneejerk know-nothings are panicking. For one thing, Politte needs to go. For another, our starting pitcher needs to start watching some f***ing film. For another, we need to start practicing bunting. For another, Williams needs to start looking into additional deals, namely Andruw Jones who apparently is available, and I wouldn't mind also looking into Smoltz as well.

 

I pretty much called for the firing of Williams throughout the 2004 season, although I wasn't a member of this site yet. I also nearly burned myself out for an entire lifetime during the abysmal 2001 season, screaming at David Wells, Jim Parque and half a dozen other schlubs. I was furious at the Foulke/Koch trade, as anyone was with half a f***ing brain. I was enraged during the 2002 campaign. I was beside myself during the 2003 collapse.

 

Reality check. We just won a World Championship with this coaching staff, this core team, and this front office. Yes, there are changes, but the core is very, very similar. If there ever was a f***ing time to cut a team some slack and have a little f***ing faith (you know, like we DIDN'T have last year) that things would get even better than the .650 FIRST HALF RECORD WE POSTED, that time is now.

 

You'll have to excuse me if my patience runs a little further than the one loss we had today. You'll have to excuse me if 8 straight series wins (5 of them against playoff contenders) is good f***ing enough for me. You'll have to excuse me if a 53-28 record is a good enough first half record for me, no matter how we did it. You'll have to excuse me if I think this team is still going to play far better baseball from the mound, and you'll have to f***ing excuse me if I have a little bit of f***ing faith in Don Cooper to straighten out Garland, straighten out Garcia, and yes, to even straighten out Vazquez.

 

Someone asked earlier today what teams have won the World Series without a dominant rotation recently. Well, I know the Cleveland Indians of the late 1990s were able to slug their way to the World Series twice in the late 1990s, and as long as we can get there, I'm fairly f***ing confident we won't find a way to crap the f***ing bed like those Indians teams did.

 

 

 

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/stats/aggreg...batting&group=9

 

Now, can you tell me which team is atop the list and which is at the bottom? Sox offense couldn't statistically be any better than the Cubs overall. I expect the Sox to score runs. However, I don't expect Buehrle -- our ace, supposedly -- (second "ace reference, Jackie ) to give up 10 f***ing runs. Something about him and 7 run first innings which is beginning to wear on me.

 

Don't even suggest Derrek Lee is the difference of runs scored by the Cubs this afternoon. You just have to admit Buehlre embarrassed himself. I'm sure as hell not giving the Cubs any credit.

 

Again, most of the cubs "offensive numbers" were compiled without Lee. With Lee, they are a FAR better team.

[Rowand44]

Why weren't we going to sweep the Cubs? You act as if were impossible thing to occur.

It nearly is.

[Flash Tizzle]

Again, most of the cubs "offensive numbers" were compiled without Lee. With Lee, they are a FAR better team.

Lee in the lineup explains the Cubs scoring 10 runs off of Buehlre?

 

Just admit it. Buehrle pitched poorly.

 

Even if you factor in Lee's presence, and somehow believe he alone changes the complexion of the Cubs offense, Cedeno (who hit in front of Lee) had 2 hits, 1 run, and didn't drive in any himself. Lee had 2 hits, 1 RBI, 1 run. Most of the damage done to Buehlre was AFTER Lee. This had nothing to do with him in the lineup. I know Lee's good, but not good enough to where he's providing protection for players hitting 4 spots after he is.

 

It nearly is.

It does seem that way, but I wouldn't have dismissed it before today even began.

Edited July 3, 2006 by Flash Tizzle

[Rowand44]

It does seem that way, but I wouldn't have dismissed it before today even began.

Well ya, I definitely didn't think today "well, we have no chance." Just before the series started I knew we'd lose at least a game(I was worried about losing this series). Unfortunately Buehrle pitched like junk and Ozzie obviously didn't care too much about this one but we still took the series and absolutely stole one yesterday, so overall a fine series..just today sucked.

[Greg Hibbard]

Lee in the lineup explains the Cubs scoring 10 runs off of Buehlre?

 

Just admit it. Buehrle pitched poorly.

 

Even if you factor in Lee's presence, and somehow believe he alone changes the complexion of the Cubs offense, Cedeno (who hit in front of Lee) had 2 hits, 1 run, and didn't drive in any himself. Lee had 2 hits, 1 RBI, 1 run. Most of the damage done to Buehlre was AFTER Lee. This had nothing to do with him in the lineup. I know Lee's good, but not good enough to where he's providing protection for players hitting 4 spots after he is.

It does seem that way, but I wouldn't have dismissed it before today even began.

 

I'm explaining to you why those numbers aren't relevant compartively in terms of considering the Cubs offense as "one of the worst". Clearly, with Lee and Ramirez together in their lineup they are obviously NOT one of the worst, no matter how you slice it. Having a hitter like Lee in that lineup affects how you pitch to almost every one of those hitters.

 

Buehrle sucked today. He's also the best pitcher this organization has had in a long time, in terms of a career. I think I'll give him the benefit of the doubt, and if he lays another egg in his next start, I'll be really worried and pissed.

[Heads22]

Good thing we never lost to the Cubs during our championship season last year. God, our faces would have been red from that.

[Rowand44]

Good thing we never lost to the Cubs during our championship season last year. God, our faces would have been red from that.

^^^

[LosMediasBlancas]

We weren't going to sweep the Cubs. As much as this one stings because of some odd things that took place, I'm satisfied with 2 of 3 because this series worried me a lot coming in.

 

 

I'm always happy to win a series, but think about how close we were to losing it.

I'd like to know how many times this team has given Buehrle a lead, only to see him give it RIGHT back.

Our very good pitching staff gave up a LOT of hits to one of the worst offenses in baseball.